Greetings McDougall,

What a wonderful description of such basically " unimaginable indescribable beauty." !

Several here have alluded to such experience but your description carries more of its wonder than I have had the privilege to read in a very long time.  That you have saved it for almost a year and then felt to share it with others through this site is an honor---thank you!

Our host's writings have shown us that we can access these realms more readily, even though they are basically unimaginable, by using what we call our imaginations as an access point. You have such a fine way of finding words to describe such realms/experiences that I hope you will join us in such explorations.  Your descriptions of what is to be found there could help alot of people who have not yet had any such experience for themselves.

I'm very happy for you!

Betson

Thanks for sharing, strangeme.....this is a great place to do it.

I have to say that much of what you have written sounds quite wonderful; however, when I see phrases like "wrath of God" and comments to the effect that Hitler doesn't have one bit of light in him (as opposed to the rest of us) or, alternatively, that anyone reading your account of the afterlife is somehow exempt from particular problems, I have my doubts about some of it.

I am uncomfortable with what sounds like "flattery" to me, because I don't consider myself so much better than those folks in "hell" nor do I feel that any human being is completely without light .... but then, that's just me.

So, thank you, as it is always fascinating to read others' visions, especially when so well-described.

love, blink

(modified a bit too late, sorry Recoverer)

Hi Strange-
I like your poetic expression, it carries a lot of the sense of awe and wonder that comes with sarvastarka samadhi.

I'm inclined to go along with the group in allowing Hitler to be at least a partially good person, and to allow even the worst of us to be salvaged - although I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting.

As you progress, I'll be interested in the next level of insights that you have.

dave

"Bruce Moen wrote in Voyage to Curiosity's father of spirits who get so lost and separated from love, that they never find their way back to the light and eventually they wither away."

Um..this scares me! If we are here on earth to experience and learn, then why would someone wither away like that?!

How could someone be that unloving?

Maybe someone can explain what that means...

Pat

thanks for you special story strangeme, I can tell your life changed when you woke up after that journey. there's a sort of feeling, oh, back to work, whenever something so sublime happens in such an experience.
some here have glimpsed those areas. and btw, well written. I sometimes wish more people would share these things with us here.

speaking of Hitler and lost souls, and molesters of children, the perversion that goes on here is about to change, I can agree with you on that, but the ways and wherefores, they are sometimes hidden from us. the example in Moen's book, he did say, it was such a rare event for a soul to not be accepted back into the disc (like a bunch of egos who travel together life to life)  that it was not worth mentioning or worrying about. I personally don't think Hitler was annhiliated by any god force as he killed himself you know. to kill one's self is a soul action already knows or beginning to know the severity of the situation. and one more point: the people around him made some decisions on their own were not quite being commanded to do so, but took it upon themselves, their own crueties to enact. not sticking up for the bloke, but god works in mysterious ways and if there were some good in Hitler, thats the only thing would be saved. the beliefs have to go. molesters can and are rehabilitated from time to time right here on Earth and on the other side. you just don't hear about it much, as not something they like to bring up on TV or media. too deep. hurts too much. not to speak of the other side of the coin, also hurts too much to talk. I think we should though, if we can.

but u have described the vastness of the area, it was a gift to your soul to glimpse it, and gives you some added life force, some good cheer, and you shared it. you should feel good for this. I had something smaller happen, I felt the freedom of being out there. I felt like a princess walking on air one time and when I got back home, was like coming back to some strange planet of an ordinary world. but it too, set me free as I knew what to do and I did it straightway without wasting time as it had set me free.

Recoverer, I have not read anything about losing individuality into a oneness concept, and I'm well read, extremely so, so I think you came to this conclusion all by yourself; I am with you on this one, Being one, merging, whatever, we will always be our own recognizable self in whatever dimension we travel in, otherwise there is no meaning to life. I do recognize places on the other side where one can be alone in contemplation and rebuilding and reaccessment of their life, their lives and it is similar to the concept of focus 27 hospitals and rejuvenation clinics, but there are choices of isolation by the soul itself on occassion, for periods they might need that. I don't see that as a loss of any sort.

Recoverer said: imagine what it would be like to have your awareness merge in an ocean of infinite awareness. Eventually your small bit of awareness would dissapate so much, there would be no you. Please, please, don't let this be so Alysia, because despite how we have differences of opinion at times, I look forward to sharing a higher realm with you some day.
______

  ok, I won't let it be so, I promise! lol. as a matter of fact I'll meet you there some day I promise.

I don't know Recoverer, that sounds like a dead end group for you, I know everyone has their own interpretations and we can fall short with getting them correct, but you say everyone was saying the same thing? that poof, and the party's over?

posh. good thing you got out of it. theres no overnight enlightenment that I can see. Seems like from various things you said, you formed bonds with them, then later felt that they let you down as a whole, not individually, but as a whole, and you carry this hurt inside you, as u probably invested a lot of time and energy with them.
what made you leave the group if I may ask? I keep thinking it was very serious, something you cannot talk about.

well there is one guy got enlightened fast...he was talking on the phone and a bolt of lightening went through the line...but he was recovering for a whole year in hospital. Said he went to heaven and he promised to be good now...lol..instant reformation.
instant enlightenment is like our drug culture, we want instant everything in America.
maybe we get ourselves involved in things like instant gratification because we need to know what enlightenment is not, so we can go towards what it is, and surely bumps in the road are going to be there.

For some of us we need to develop ourselves in meditation first before joining up with a group. as you know experience is the best teacher, isn't that why we came to earth, to have ourselves a life of experiences being human.

I don't think about going after enlightenment, the premise is suspect itself. but I would not say all Eastern thought is trash either. I would just compare it to other thought systems and pick out what is good for me to believe and test it out, and if I don't understand something, I put it into my mind shelf in a little basket and come back later to see if I have the answer.

heres my philosophy basically, I look for fear inside of me, I look for why I'm afraid. we all are afraid of something. if I can find the roots of it I can replace the fear with courage with assistance from some part of me connected to god. very simple, but it works to reduce one's stress level and that helps others if one is not causing fear in another, one is causing the other to feel PUL, which what goes around comes around and is builded in truth that we are not eaten up by god so much as we get to have dinner with him.

have to resort to poetry you know. hard to communicate.

nice chatting with the real you friend.

o      Thanks I have also had to through the road of fundamental dogma and really think about the horrors of an everlasting horror of hell for a finite sin in this brief existence on earth.

An infinite punishment for a finite sin (not fair to me) I realize that I Alan, (strangeme) who am not perfect love, would never ever confine even a Hitler into this eternal hell. Then how much infinitely less likely would our beloved Holy Father God of eternal mercy and LOVE punish a mere mortal in this ultimately awful way? I truly love God  but know that god "equally loves those that do not know him". “God loves the whole world has equal mercy for all and I trust him to heal those who were wicked in their mortal lives with an eternal healing of their souls in the afterlife. I hope I have expressed myself properly. Yes, Hitler was cruel but why must we bring God down to the level of this psychopath? However, God is sovereign and will do just what he wants in the end and I cannot dictate what he will do. I can express, however, what I believe to be true even if I am wrong. Note! nearly every Christian I have met over these long years have each had a slightly or markedly different understanding of biblical interpretation and I have finally reached the point where I have made up my own mind about the matter of an eternal hell If God simply throws every non born again person on earth into everlasting torment then his earthly creation is one colossal failure .


Below is a comment I received from an ex. pastor

Yes, Alan that is right, and you know, I was so liberated and truly free once the lord woke me up to the brainwashing lies of the ministry. I was in the ministry for 17 yrs. and followed what I was brainwashed to follow .how do they even get away with this is beyond me. what ever a man sewes,so shall he reaps, and god will not be mocked, is a dead giveaway that god does not have a eternal torture chamber to abort his children in, that were taught wrong, dressed wrong, talked wrong, or got brainwashed by the wrong preacher. In addition, the fact, if you reap what you sew, then why would he punish you again?  Does a non-Christian who lives a fairly modest and good life not sew what he reaps is he not punished by god the righteous judge in a in a fair way in, accordance with the severity of his sins. Are his sins infinite like eternal damnation? That would be double jeopardy. {2 punishments for one crime}.I have been screaming like a bungee for folks to wake up!

All information, both past, present, and future, exists in the “Universal Mind.” The Universal Mind (or Collective Mind) transcends time and space and with diligent practice, is consciously accessible from the deep state of awareness. The Universal Mind is where information comes from for all accurate predictions and visions, whether auditory, visual, or emotional. It encompasses all that is and all that will be. In truth, it is where our thoughts come from. We only perceive them coming from the brain as we experience physical reality through most of our senses located in the head region (taste, sight, hearing, smell and even touch). The brain is a mere filter for our thoughts. I see it as something similar to the hive mind of the bee or ant but that, which connects all higher beings in one consciousness throughout the universe. I speculate this universal mind is finite consisting of finite albeit highly intelligent life forms throughout the universe and is not the infinite creator God but one of his creations.

Author

Alan McDougall 15/9/2007.

THE CAUSE OF SUFFERING

One song; the totality of all the things that exist.

According to Vedanta, there are only five reasons why humans suffer. The first is not knowing who we are. The second is identifying with our ego or self-image. The third is clinging to that which is transient and unreal. The fourth is recoiling in fear of that which is transient and unreal. And the fifth is the fear of death.

Vedanta also says that the five causes of suffering are all contained in the first cause — not knowing who we are. If we can answer this one basic question, Who am I? we may find the answer to all other related questions like, Where did I come from? What is the meaning and purpose of my life? Where do I go when I die?

Now, if someone were to ask, ‟Who are you?” your response would probably be “Oh, my name is so-and-so. I’m an American, or I am Japanese, or I am the president of this company. All these answers refer to your self-image or to an object outside your self: a name, a place, a circumstance. This process of identifying with your self-image or the objects of your experience is called object referral.

You may also identify with your body and say ‟This is my body. This bag of flesh and bones is who I am.” But then the question is, What is the body, and why call it yours? The body that you call yours, is really the raw material of the universe: recycled earth, water, and air. But so is the tree outside your window. Why call the body yours when you do not call the stars, the moon, or the tree outside your window yours? Of course your body seems nearer to you, but this assumes that you know where the “I am” that you think you are is physically located.

Many people somehow feel that the “I” they call themselves, the skin-encapsulated awareness, is located somewhere in their head. Other people think it’s located somewhere behind the heart or solar plexus. But no scientific experiment has ever found a center of awareness in any one location in space or time.

An interesting insight that comes to us from both Vedic Science and the Jewish Kabbalah is that the center of our awareness is the center of all space and time. It is at once everywhere and nowhere. But let’s assume for a moment that indeed your awareness is located where you are physically sitting. If this universe has infinite dimensions - and physicists assure us that it does - then infinity extends in all directions from where you are.

You are in the center of the universe, but so am I because infinity extends in all directions from where I am. Infinity also extends in all directions from a peasant in China, a dog in Siberia, and a tree in Africa. The truth is, I am here, but I am also everywhere else because here is there from every other point in space. You are there, but you are also everywhere else because there is everywhere, or nowhere specifically.

In other words, location in space is a matter of perception. When we say the moon is near, the sun is far, that’s only true from one vantage point. In reality, there is no up or down, north or south, east or west, here or there. These are only points of reference for our convenience. Everything in the cosmos is non-local, meaning we can’t confine it to here, there, or anywhere. But my eyes tell me this is not the case. I am here, you are there, wherever you are. So maybe we should not trust our senses that much. My eyes tell me that the Earth is flat, but nobody believes that anymore. Sensory experience tells me that the ground I am standing on is stationary, but I know from science that the earth is spinning on its axis and hurtling through outer space at thousands of miles an hour. Sensory experience tells me that the objects of my perception are solid, but that’s not true either. We know they are made up of atoms, which in turn are particles that whirl around huge empty spaces. These are all superstitions that I’ve developed because I’ve learned to trust my senses.

The universe is actually a chaos of energy soup, and we ingest this soup through our five senses, and then convert it into a material reality in our consciousness. Our senses transform massless energy into form and solidity, texture and color, fragrance and taste, sound and vibration. And our interpretation of that energy soup structures our reality and creates our perceptual experience. Most of the time we do this unconsciously as a result of social conditioning. Scientists have called this the hypnosis of social conditioning. I call it the superstition of materialism.

The superstition of materialism relies on sensory experience as the crucial test of reality. In this world-view, reality is what we can see with our eyes, what we can touch with our hands, hear with our ears, smell with our nose, taste with our mouth, or touch with or hands. If energy or information is not available to our senses, we tend to think it isn’t there. And the intellect, with its linguistically structured system of logic, serves to justify this mistaken perception of reality.

Sensory experience is totally illusory; it’s as transient as a fantasy or a dream. Is there really such a thing as the color red? Every color you see is a particular wavelength of light, and the light you can actually detect is a fraction of what exists. How long can you cling to a world of illusion? You may think you are the body that your senses can locate in space and time, but the body is a field of invisible vibrations that has no boundaries in space and time.

So maybe you are not the image you identify with, and maybe you are not the body. Then at least you must be your thoughts and feelings. But who can honestly claim to know where thoughts and feelings come from? Where do thoughts come from, and where do they disappear?
If you can’t claim exclusivity over the objects of your experience, your body, or even your thoughts and feelings, then what can you call your own? And here the knowledge of Vedanta saves us. If we replace the word exclusive with the word inclusive then you are not just these objects, you are not just this body, you are not just these thoughts and feelings. You are all things, you are all bodies, you are all thoughts and feelings. You are a field of all possibilities.

The essential you, your real essence, is a field of awareness that interacts with its own self and then becomes both mind and body. In other words, you are consciousness or spirit, which then conceives, constructs, governs, and becomes the mind and the body. The real you is inseparable from the patterns of intelligence that permeate every fiber of creation.

At the deepest level of existence, you are Being, and you are nowhere and everywhere at the same time. There is no other “you” than the entire cosmos. The cosmic mind creates the physical universe, and the personal mind experiences the physical universe. But in truth, the cosmic mind and the personal mind are both permeated by infinite consciousness. Infinite consciousness is our source, and all manifestation is inherent within it.

Infinite consciousness observing itself creates the notion of observer, or the soul; the process of observation, or the mind; and that which is observed, or the body and the world. The observer and the observed create relationships between themselves; this is space. The movement of these relationships creates events; this is time. But all these are none other than the infinite consciousness itself.

In other words, we are infinite consciousness with a localized point of view. And yet our whole system of thought divides the observer from the observed; it divides the infinite consciousness into a world of objects separated by space and time. The intellect imprisons us in a cage of fictitious images, a suffocating web of space, time, and causation. As a result, we lose touch with the true nature of our reality, which is powerful, boundless, immortal, and free.

We are all prisoners of the intellect. And the intellect’s mistake in one simple sentence is this: It mistakes the image of reality for reality itself. It squeezes the soul into the volume of a body, in the span of a lifetime, and now the spell of mortality is cast. The image of the self overshadows the unbounded Self, and we feel cut off or disconnected from infinite consciousness, our source.

This is the beginning of fear, the onset of suffering, and all the problems of humanity from our minor insecurities to our major catastrophes like war, terrorism, and all other acts of human degradation. To one who is trapped in the prison of the intellect, all indeed is suffering. But the cause of the suffering can and should be averted. Ignorance of our real nature causes the inner self to be obscured. But when ignorance is destroyed, the powerful, unbounded, free nature of the self is revealed.

At first this may sound strange and abstract, but as you bear with this notion and understand it, you realize the most dramatic discovery: The real you is nonmaterial and therefore not subject to the limitations of space, time, matter, and causation. The soul, the spirit, the essential you, is beyond all that. In this very moment, you are surrounded by a pure consciousness. Pure consciousness illuminates and animates your mind and body, and it is powerful, nourishing, invincible, unbounded, and free. Pure consciousness, the eternal spirit, animates everything in existence, which means it is omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (present in all locations simultaneously), and omnipotent (all powerful).

Now, if you don’t fully comprehend that, don’t worry about it. In the following articles, we will take a closer look at the different expressions of the spirit, the inner self, the source of all that is. As you read these pages, you will get a better understanding of who you really are.

Once you have fully grasped this understanding, your life will be established in joy. Not only will you have the power to accomplish all that you want, but you will have true freedom and grace. This means you will never experience fear, not even the fear of death.

Key points:
• • You are a field of awareness; your essence is pure consciousness, or spirit, which becomes both the mind and the body.
• • The intellect mistakes the image of reality for reality itself, and this image overshadows the real you.
• • When you identify with your real essence, you escape the prison of the intellect, and enter the world of the infinite, unbounded and free
Regards
Alan

Why Is There Something And Not Nothing?

Something instead of nothing?

[email][/email]Why is there something instead of nothing? The interesting conclusion of this ultimate puzzle is that, we can be sure of, it that at least something exists. There is a Universe, we see people, and things, and light, and while we may debate what it means, how it came into being, and how it works, we can be sure that there is at least `something'.
Many physists search for the most elementary laws of physics, and believe that a law is more likely to be true, when it is simpler, more elementary. Some think that at some moment, humans will understand how the Universe and everything works, and, even more, that we find out why the Universe is necessarily as it is. (Ridiculous nonsense). I cannot believe that, indeed, I believe humans cannot ever give a satisfactory or final answer to this ultimate of all questions. Why is there something instead of nothing?
With nothing, I mean the un-existence of everything. No people, no earth, no milky way, no universe, no laws of nature, no space, no time a total non-existence of everything. A mind-boggling, brain-, brain-numbing and brain- twisting overwhelming concept, terrifying, frightening, too awful to contemplate and impossible think about, without going insane and totally beyond understanding of any human genius. Making a mathematical model of nothing is actually easy. (Take an empty set, with no operations on it, and nothing else.) Nevertheless, one thing we can be sure of: this nothing is not correct: we do not have “nothing”, but definite and absolutely do indeed have ‘SOMETHING’. This shows that the simplest model is not always the correct one. The universe is almost infinitely complex and to me this points to the simple logic that it is the creation by an infinite, intelligent power. Nothing is the very most basic of all concepts and if there were nothing, there would be no creator, of course.
Some people may argue that the universe was created in the Big Bang ( but whom and what pressed the button of the big bang in the first place, so to speak?) , and that positive matter and positive energy are actually negated by the simultaneous creation of negative matter and negative energy. However, this doesn't answer the other question, where do matter, energy and laws of physics then come from in the first place?
Does this question have an answer? If something exists because it either was a modification of something or else, Something or Somebody else created it, then what caused that to exist? It seems that our logic is unable to deal with the question; indeed, I think the question shows there is a limit to our understanding of things by the very best minds of the human race. There are simply mysteries out there that will never ever be solved by mere mortal man. You see the universe has a strange Goldie locks condition about it, i.e., it cannot be too hot, or too cold etc, etc, erc, but it has to be just absolutely correct, precise and right or life would not have come into existence and we would not be around to contemplate, debate or dialogue on this ultimate enigma. We would not exist. Life hangs on and depends on this knife- edge of harmonies conditions that have to be sustained over countless billions of years, for us to have come into existence and continue to exist. Makes one think, does it not?
Why do we have a Universe? My answer is that God created the Universe. However, then, one can ask, who/what created God? I believe God was not created and this ‘FACT’ IS BEYOND OUR UNDERSTANDING AND MUST BE ACCEPTED ON FAITH. God is far and beyond our understanding, everlasting, without beginning or end, eternal and ever -existing, but was (and is, and will be) always existed. He/she is indeed the very author of all existence. Indeed, God is so mighty, Omni-All that he/she exists, forever, far above our reasoning and above the ultimate reaches of our logic. Something we and all the vain puffed up scientist, philosophers, etc, will just have to accept in time, We will, at the end of the day have to, relent and acknowledge that somewhere out there is a awesome, colossal, mighty, great infinite intelligence that in comparison that we are as a microbe is to a human or perhaps horrors even much further remote, from the Omni-all power we call God. It will indeed be a most humbling experience for us to finally realize and acknowledge, that there are things and mysteries that will; remain forever, absolutely, totally beyond human comprehension understand and reside eternally in the mind of our creator God.
It is a fact the finite can simply never ever comprehend the mind of the infinite; this should be logic to any fool.
God Exists and inescapable fact of logic
By Alan McDougall 11/6/2007.


mcdougall.alan@yahoo

Alan said: Once you have fully grasped this understanding, your life will be established in joy. Not only will you have the power to accomplish all that you want, but you will have true freedom and grace. This means you will never experience fear, not even the fear of death. 

Key points: 
• • You are a field of awareness; your essence is pure consciousness, or spirit, which becomes both the mind and the body. 
• • The intellect mistakes the image of reality for reality itself, and this image overshadows the real you. 
• • When you identify with your real essence, you escape the prison of the intellect, and enter the world of the infinite, unbounded and free
Regards
Alan

____

for heavens sake I think you are onto something! good stuff.

I thought about, who hasn't? the edges of the universe, where is the edge of infinity? draw a blank enough times and you get back to basics, of the value of having faith, or indeed the reality and comfort which is perceived in the now moment, not on the edges of infinity that I cannot grasp and so the now moment does bring joy, and this I believe is life abundant, what we all want is a sense of being alive..really alive I mean, where each new day is so very new, so much a wonder to be completely without fear what the day may bring, a grace descends. I did not give it to myself, but I do prepare  a place for it daily. Vigilance I call it, nowdays I love this saying I picked up from Warrior of the Light, "an open oven bakes no bread." lol!

the baking of bread I noticed to my delight continues while my personality with the wagging tongue, sleeps. 

with that, I enjoy your posts, much to ponder.