Hi Alysia,

Thank you.  

A wise man said,
Quote:


So here we are.

I will therefore say thank you also for having enacted the above in reading and very graciously acknowledging the link offered in the opening post.

- u

It'll hurt, but you'll certainly get the message on what not to do if you bin the oil and air filters and stop changing oil R....

Your point on interpretation is exactly the point where books and teaching are concerned. It can be just plain bad, but  interpretation and comprehension are a big part of the deal too

   But is love always just nice, flowery, and/or diplomatic words, or a charming, light,  personable, or even enthusiastic manner (after all, how many successful sales people aren't actually quite enthusiastic in same) ?   I've found from both experience and intuition that few incarnate people can consistently and deeply read the inner intents, motivations, and the inner heart of a person, based solely upon their words or to a lesser extent their actions. 

  Some actions are so obvious and overt, that yes they can and oft do indicate some of the inner intents and motivations...but what about more subtle things, like typing a post on an internet group forum?   Are the deeper intents, motivations, and the heart of the person so easily read just through their words which appear as lifeless symbols before our eyes?

  Perhaps there are some people so attuned and sensitive, as to be able to do this in a more consistently accurate manner, but it seems that they are probably rare.   

  This leads me to some very important, obvious but oft times very overlooked points about people's manners and the words they write.   

   There are those who speak with a silver tongue, who seem very cool headed but yet personable and diplomatic, they can be charming, and they know how to say the right things at the right time, they're good at knowing what people want to hear.   Their words and their manner can seem very nice and even 'spiritual' but their inner intents, motivations, their hearts can be barren of any true love, warmth, or concern for others despite the outer charm and personable manners.   

  Such is the average politician for example, who smooth talks and walks his way into positions of power and influence, who smiles and shakes your hand, but who later when you are not looking, tries to stab you in the back because you nothing more than a number to him.    Such people are very, very good at manipulation and few see it coming because well, they can seem so nice and considerate of others.   

  Such people rarely 'rock the boat' in any obvious or overt manner, after all, their deeper (and usually unseen) goal is either to be liked, or to get you to trust and like them for other reasons.   Rarely do they have any overt or obvious conflicts with others, because they know how much few people can deal well with same in a direct way.   Like i said, they are very good at saying what they think you want to hear, or what will get them to get their way.   

  Let's look at the sign Libra for a moment.  Libra is halfway through Zodiac, and is the first sign that deals primarily with relationships..in fact, Libra more than any other sign represents relationships, particularly close ones or diplomatic ones.    Libra likes and is quite attached to harmony and rarely can deal directly to well with overt conflict, disagreement or anger.   Libra is a sign known for its manners, its charm, its social graces, and when its towards the positive they can be very nice, considerate, and somewhat sensitive tendencies. 

  They are great "people pleasers" and are very good at saying the right things at the right times, they are good at tuning into the social atmosphere and reading what the majority or sometimes individuals want, almost in a semi-psychic way, but not quite like Pisces and not to the degree that the latter can. 

  Not surprisingly then, we find Libra oft very prominent in the world of diplomatic relations, psychologists, counselors or therapists.    It's not uncommon to find it in the world of politics or entertainment either.    Libra is well suited to all these various expressions. 

  But, Libra rarely is half as selfless, considerate, or as loving as they want others to think about them.. in fact, their image is oft very important to them, even if on a more unconscious level. 

   And there is a darker side to Libra, as there is to any sign or expression.   The more negative expression of Libra is known to be the master manipulator, the master charmer with a self serving agenda, they are very good at puffing up people's egos to get their way, to get what they want.    They can be very deceptive, but in a very subtle and oft times unconscious to themselves kind of way.   Oft times their "sensitivity" to others, is rather superficial and based more on the intellect than on deep feelings.    While they oft talk of, and seem very obsessed with love (they are the type to fall in love with love), they can have a surprisingly hard time actually feeling deep and unconditional love to and for others. 

In fact, they oft have a rarely seen but very critical, judgmental, and perfectionist side to them (especially if they have strong Virgo energy too, which many do since its the sign right before them, and Mercury and Venus travel close to the Sun).

    Love is oft more of an unreachable ideal to them, and they can hold others up to some pretty unrealistic standards, BUT they can be mighty lax and relaxed on themselves and their living up to those ideals.   Because it is such a 'relationship' oriented sign, too oft they focus way too much on others, their actions, their beliefs, and not enough on their own development, actions, and focuses. 

  Add a strong Neptune to the mix, and if they are not too centered, then they can be extremely, extremely self deceptive or strongly fall for the deception of others, especially to those who seem to be put on a pedestal by others.   

  In general, Libra rarely shows its anger or dislike of you in any direct way...no, no its much too subtle and repressed, 'refined', and "above" that (at least in its own mind), no their deep, repressed anger and sometimes rage tends to come out in more indirect and subtle ways.   A subtly sarcastic and mean feelinged word here or there, insinuations and indirect character assassinations and attacks a bit here or there... 
Or their greatest trick is to subtly, but cleverly and manipulatively to try to turn others and the "group" against the objects of their dislike and anger.    They may claim hurt or attack where there really was none meant.   They might point their fingers at those more direct, honest and sincere than themselves and say, "look at those bad, mean people who say hurtful things to me or you, they must be very negative to say such undiplomatic words."   "please, pretty please dislike them as i do".   


  Let's look at the converse for a moment.   There are those with inwardly kind and warm hearts, but who have learned the hard way that oft honesty and directness is the best policy.  Not always, but as a rule.    They do not have a "silver tongue" and they rarely say what they think others want to hear.   They say what they feel or think.   They sometimes lack charm and social personableness, but even in their sometime painful to others bluntness, they rarely mean any real harm and don't know the meaning of subtle manipulation.  If you piss them off, if you upset them, well you're going to hear about it and chances are, probably pretty directly and honestly. 

  The great attribute of these, is their lack of repression and their deep sincerity.  And they tend to be rather self honest, as well as honest with others.  People usually know where these folks are coming from, and while they may get hopping mad at you or a situation in the moment, they are oft completely over it pretty quickly..  They can't hold grudges like Libra can, and because they express outwardly, and not hold within, they tend to have less real psychological hangups.   They tend to be less OCD in nature. 

   They could probably use some of the diplomacy and outer sensitivity that Libra oft displays, but more often than not, Libra could really stand to integrate more of their natural tendencies, especially the self honesty and directness of these types.

   But, who is usually more "popular" or well liked among the majority, or among the groups, do you think?   The ones who say what they are really feeling and thinking, and not what they think others want to hear or what sounds nice, or the ones who are good at sniffing out and sensing what others like hearing and are more than happy to oblige?    I mean, haven't our long list of politicians, profit or status motivated sales people, false gurus, and con men shown us over and over again, who we as a whole tend to like and listen to more?    

  Consider this post a parable on real life of sorts.    Appearances can be very deceiving, and the person who speaks in a gruff and no nonsense manner can be coming from a more positive inner space than the one speaking honeyed, socially acceptable words. 

  A silver tongue, a cool manner, and a lack of real or deep understanding or positive intents can do much, much more harm to others than the person who is sometimes too direct and in your face with their real feelings and thoughts.     But, so often in the moment like attracts and begets like, and this world is short on nothing, if not on deception, half truths, self delusion, image attachment and projection, and those who would mislead others (either because they themselves are deluded [most common probably], or knowingly and purposely).   

If one goes to a piano teacher, one will learn how to play a piano, not a guitar.



[quote author=ultra link=1196370770/15#21 date=1196663967]Hi Rondele,


Similarly, the Christ (Jesus is a Guru too, you know) may be a representative of the highest absolute, but at this minute, He may be presenting one of His devoted followers with a specific lesson He wants them to receive through Dr. Phil. Reflexively, someone who is also a devoted (and open) follower of the Christ, may read the link provided in the first post, and in those definitions of a 'true master', possibly find themselves more aware, more deeply connected to their guidance from Jesus, even though presented from a "different" source. This connecting movement has nothing to do with 'promoting' anyone - whether TV personality or Indian guru. That is a paradigm from a world we are hopefully leaving behind. We're talking here of an internally driven process of viable connection between necessity and fulfilment - not one of external arbitrary imposition.

So the guitar teacher is only a false guru when I hit a sour chord? I can see problems arising here, especially from my old guitar teacher! But in general I agree that a good teacher imparts the generalities, while the student masters the particulars. The process seems to begin with rote learning, then the second step is creative adaptations of what was learned, and finally the third phase, with development of strategies and good taste.

However, Ultra's note on evolving receptivity is provable - in fact I work in this area. Whatever it is that we knew yesterday is all mushed up together, joined to itself in every possible whichway and stored as a new set of ideas. (The math is an iterated complexion on basis two, if anyone cares.) This explains about 98% of what we know, and the other two percent is likely to be noise and confusion.

Given this description, we might feel that the true teacher brings reality, and the student absorbs as much as possible, while developing conceptual breadth in the topic area.

However, this does not eliminate error. I personally feel that Jesus was not predestined by God to be a sacrificial lamb, any more than a black chicken is predestined to be a Voodoo offering to carry away my sins without any need for spiritual advancement or effort on my part. Thus, the phrase, "Jesus died for our sins," means to me that we killed Jesus because we are ignorant sinners. I read "for" to mean "because of" - and even though he was himself willing, that doesn't mean that he was eliminating all personal moral responsibility through some obscure kabbalistic magic.

Fire escape religions depend upon the magical interpretation, and somehow avoid the implication that we should have known better than to kill the one whom they call "the son of God", or any moral taint resulting from having done so. I suggest that this is a bias that has arisen because it is easier to believe that Jesus has accomplished everything for us, than to believe that we have a long way to go morally and spiritually. Moreover, so long as this bias is present, there is no reason to improve, so it's safe and acceptable to screw our neighbor's spouse, rob from everyone, exploit the poor to get richer, and to make war, murder and torture for profit.

My point, obviously, is that unless the guru is willing to carefully correct us, we tend to take the easy way out of moral dilemmas. That sort of destrys the essential message. This is also visible in politics, where we have rulers destroying and attempting to modify the constitutions of their nations to stay forever in power, or to allow new and greater exploitation of the masses. A whole rash of such efforts are in the news these days.

Alysia- Unix is a computer language used by many major companies. It is extremely stable code. The original Microsoft Windows series is vaguely based on Unix, but uses a single glob of code, rather than a well ordered set of sub-programs. A variant called Linux is becoming popular, and is what I use. The specific Linux I use is called "Ubuntu", and can be initially tried out for about $5 or so - the initial disk costs a couple dollars. After that, it's free. Upgrades are also free. You can find out more at www.ubuntu.com It also is much more powerful than Windows, provides far more versatility, including four independent multitasking workspaces, and simply doesn't crash. One of the US submarines is running Linux.

A few years back, one of the US guided missle cruisers was trying to operate under Windows, at which time her CO suggested that this was rather like hoping that the enemy wouldn't shoot at us.

I found the "777" yesterday - it was an antique store. I didn't find any useful antiques. But it reminded me that Unix worked OK for the Persian Empire for two thousand or more years ...

dave

ultra wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2007 at 4:16pm:


   I agree with the basic message of the above, just not so much with the emphasis.   What i'm getting is that Recoverer or Dave is saying, "let's be active in this world, and not passive".   This is the same message of Yeshua.   I'm getting a different underlying message from Ultra and his posts in general. 

  It's really not God's Orchestra, at least It's not directly running it.   God just gave us freewill, set up reality in certain basic, universal ways, with universal laws which apply to all, and all the rest is up to the individual, parts part of God.   And God/The Whole is more than the sum of its parts.

   At some point, many of us decided to remove ourselves, our consciousness from Gods.   It was not done to us, but a result of full freewill.   

  If every individualized consciousness, or part of God decided to remain passive after this, then it would all become very, very stagnant.   We have the ability, the capacity, to continue to rebel against the Creative Forces for as long as we desire too.    There have long been rebellious elements in the Whole.    Why and how they continue to so rebel, i don't know for the complete answer too, but they do.   Fortunately, many other elements and parts in same, do not continue to rebel in such extreme and consistent ways.   Many love Source, and want to fully remember and reemerge with same, and try to help others to do the same.   

  Others don't yet really love Source, rebel against same and they try to get others to do the same, and their most effective method is to mislead others about spiritual truths.   They sometimes sing siren songs dressed up in spiritual wisdom that whispers the opposite message and living example of Christ, they whisper become passive, you have plenty of time to change, theres no rush at all..etc.  They whisper, "anything goes".   

   Do they have their rightful place in the Whole of reality, and in Source, course they do, they are children of the Most High like any other, and are just as loved by same, but they keep the Orchestra and the Symphony of Life inharmonious and discordant.   Thus, while they are not to be disliked, feared, shunned, etc., they and their slow vibrating influences are to be counter acted so that others (and hopefully them as well) can speed up their journey back to Reality.    Happiness, joy, and the peace that surpasses understanding awaits in Reality. 

Surely this is to be desired more than suffering and disconnection from Reality?  Why not get there sooner rather than later?  This attitude, emphasis, deepest desire is the same as Christ's, and the reason for his coming to this world.  To speed up the process as much as he could, because disconnection hurts, it hurts his siblings and children, it hurts us, and so in a sense still hurts him though he abides himself in constant joy and peace.   He will not rest until the last one returns.  He is ever active, and so aren't all true spiritual sources and energies. 

  It's such a simple and uncomplicated message, do not complicate reality and the process more than needs be.    Christ always simplified it for others, because he saw into the Heart of Reality and could and did because he lived purely that which is Reality personified.   Only in doing same, does one be able to see into the Heart of Reality like he did.   All others are mostly 'guessing' and feeling their way around in the dark, unless they look to such a pure example.

Oft times those who complicated and confuse things for others, well they just don't know what they are talking about.   You can't get more simple than the basic message of Christ.   It cuts through all the distortions, and discordances of our collective illusions.   You have before you Ultra's teachings and wisdom, and you have before you Yeshua's.   Choose whom you will align to and serve, but know that you cannot ever completely follow two masters at the same time and expect to know full joy and that peace that surpasses intellectual understanding.