Conversation Board - Sex - The secret gate to eden

AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #15 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:41am

the_seeker wrote on Nov 25^th, 2007 at 1:30am:

only when you die will sex not matter. and even then you can have the "spiritual sex" .. not physical.

to say denying yourself sex makes you spiritual is like saying denying yourself food or water makes you spiritual. it's simply part of being a human.

I certainly wouldn't argue against the basic premise in the above, but i would like to expand a bit upon the part i highlighted. I've come to believe that humans, the huge, huge majority of us, really limit ourselves in so many ways. Part of this whole limitation thing, seems to also be an issue of powerful attachments and incomplete and distorted belief systems.

Maybe a human doesn't really need to eat, drink, sleep, or have sex to be "human"? Maybe if we lived reality purely while in the body, we would not be limited by such space/time 'laws' and super common attachments?

Are you a fan of Robert Monroe at all? If you haven't already, i would suggest checking out his last book Ultimate Journey. He talks of an account in there, while doing one of his many Consciousness explorations in the nonphysical wherein he asked his Greater self, his Inspec/I-There if he could meet the most spiritually mature/evolved person living in his time/space cycle.
His guidance said, sure but it may not be what you expect. Anyways, to make it more brief, he nonphysically enters into a normal looking room which he said could be anywhere, and there at a desk is a physically incarnate person...but not just any person. This person becomes aware of Bob as soon as Bob focuses on this person. They start to have a very fascinating "telepathic" nonphysical conversation.
Bob is allowed limited access into this person's mind. A bunch of really interesting things become known. This person, whom Bob refers to He/She (because of the amazing balance of their energy between the masculine/feminine) let's Bob know that they are some 1800 years old, they don't eat, sleep, or age anymore and haven't reincarnated anymore in that whole time (poo hoo on all those people claiming to be this person reborn Roll Eyes

).

Bob picks up that "He/She" works many different jobs in their linear physical time, and the reason given is about as simple as one can get--He/She likes people.

I would say that Bob was a pretty credible guy overall. Many folks who have been long involved in the metaphysical/spiritual world, would say and have said that Bob is a pretty credible and balanced guy. I don't automatically take his word for the gospel truth, but check what he says against what my own feelings and guidance says, and for whatever reason, i trust and believe him on this account. I also realize that Bob seems to hint that his person is somehow already known about in some way, if you read the account very carefully, but that's a whole nother story and apparently the name of this person seems to turn too many people off so i'll let my opinion remain unstated here (he can be taught?).

Point being is that if this account is a true one, then perhaps humans in reality can transcend such things even while involved with this dimension? Maybe our true nature is much less limited than what we have been led to believe? Maybe we need to open our minds and seriously consider radical possibilities before these can become actual experiences and truths for us as well, and not just some super advanced "He/She" type. Maybe it doesn't help to keep telling ourselves and others about how limited we humans are?

Maybe it helps to look more to these most expanded examples, and to not pay so much attention to those who didn't expand to such heights? How many other spiritual teachers out there, can say that they've attained to what He/She has? Maybe these 'outer signs' are indications of the great inner depth of spiritual attunement of He/She? Maybe we can and will be like He/She if we live like He/She?

Dunno ultimately, but i find these to be interesting questions and ways of looking at things. Personally, i'm a bit tired of being limited.

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recoverer

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #16 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:01pm

The thing is, we aren't actually human. We are spirit beings who are making use of a body for a short while. Our true reality isn't bound by physical needs. If one wants to get to the point where one can completely abide as one's spirit self, or at least ways as close as possible, one will need to overcome lust.

Regarding eating, drinking and breathing, these are physical survival needs of an individual, while sex isn't.

I once had a dream about overcoming lust while in the physical. No need to share the entire dream. During a key part I was standing on a trail of ascension next to a couple of astronauts. They had somehow lost their space capsule which was rotating around the planet earth. They got it back by lassoing it with a rope. Certainly this seems like an impossible thing to do, yet they did so. The point this dream made is that one can overcome lust while in the physical, but it is difficult to do so. In numerous ways it has been shown to me that if a person overcomes lust while in the physical, it will make a huge difference to he or she energetically and spiritually. If a person wants to obtain Christ consciousness/merge with his or her higher self while in the physical, he or she needs to overcome the lustfull part of his or her energetic system. You can't be a light being and a sexual being at the same time.

the_seeker wrote on Nov 25^th, 2007 at 1:30am:

only when you die will sex not matter. and even then you can have the "spiritual sex" .. not physical.

to say denying yourself sex makes you spiritual is like saying denying yourself food or water makes you spiritual. it's simply part of being a human.

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blink

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #17 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:51pm

I guess it depends on how we "label" things.......again.

"Lust" is a very different word from "attraction" -- and I think we can easily get lost in shades of meaning.

I personally feel that, for myself, without the very specific physical experiences that I have had in this world, I would not have the self-understanding that I now have.

In fact, these experiences have been woven into my life in such a way that I would say I have been guided through them deliberately.

I feel that it is not necessary for me to separate my physical experience from my spiritual experiences. They are of one piece for me, as I see it now.

love, blink

recoverer wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:01pm:

The thing is, we aren't actually human. We are spirit beings who are making use of a body for a short while. Our true reality isn't bound by physical needs. If one wants to get to the point where one can completely abide as one's spirit self, or at least ways as close as possible, one will need to overcome lust.

Regarding eating, drinking and breathing, these are physical survival needs of an individual, while sex isn't.

I once had a dream about overcoming lust while in the physical. No need to share the entire dream. During a key part I was standing on a trail of ascension next to a couple of astronauts. They had somehow lost their space capsule which was rotating around the planet earth. They got it back by lassoing it with a rope. Certainly this seems like an impossible thing to do, yet they did so. The point this dream made is that one can overcome lust while in the physical, but it is difficult to do so. In numerous ways it has been shown to me that if a person overcomes lust while in the physical, it will make a huge difference to he or she energetically and spiritually. If a person wants to obtain Christ consciousness/merge with his or her higher self while in the physical, he or she needs to overcome the lustfull part of his or her energetic system. You can't be a light being and a sexual being at the same time.

the_seeker wrote on Nov 25^th, 2007 at 1:30am:

only when you die will sex not matter. and even then you can have the "spiritual sex" .. not physical.

to say denying yourself sex makes you spiritual is like saying denying yourself food or water makes you spiritual. it's simply part of being a human.

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Rondele

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #18 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:56pm

<<I would say that Bob was a pretty credible guy overall. Many folks who have been long involved in the metaphysical/spiritual world, would say and have said that Bob is a pretty credible and balanced guy.>>

AhSo-

I'm not sure about that. One of RAM's accounts described his meeting with an alien who, per RAM, looked exactly like W.C. Fields. Top hat and all.

Anyway, the alien told him that his mission was to collect jokes from the earth plane because his planet needed cheering up.

Couple things.....Fields was more or less from RAM's generation. He probably wouldn't mean anything to most baby boomers much less younger people. So it's fair to say that this "meeting" may have been nothing more than RAM's imagination working overtime.

But in addition to that, the whole scene is pretty absurd. Yet RAM describes it as if it were a real situation derived from his explorations.

To me that takes away from his credibility big time. In fact it's amazing that RAM would have even put that in his book.

It really makes me wonder.

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recoverer

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #19 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 2:01pm

Blink:

This is sort of a response to what you wrote, and it sort of contradicts what "I" wrote before. I've read a number of near death experiences which state that we come here to learn how to love. None of them say that we have to give up sex.

I figure most people can learn to love without giving up sex. However, there are some people who for whatever reason try to reach a level where they can live as a light being even while still occupying a body. For most people this isn't necessary.

Related to this, I don't believe that each of us needs to become a completely enlightened master during one of our physical incarnations. It is enough if we learn to love in an unconditional way. When I say this, I don't mean that we can never ever have unloving moments. We just simply need to get to the point where for the most part we are loving people. The imperfections will be taken care of when we move on to the spirit World, according to need.

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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #20 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 2:24pm

Hi Ron, as i understand and read that account you just mentioned, the E.T. that Bob interacted with only projected an image of Fields thinking that Bob would be more comfortable with that image and not its true self image.

When Becky and i were at TMI doing the Gateway program, Becky asked to communicate with an E.T. Consciousness, well it's form or the reflection/projection of its energy (form) was very strange looking indeed. She drew it later.

Actually, i think in some ways, humans and the Earth system is rather unique. We're such a mix of energies here, unlike in some many other systems. And humor and sense of same, seems to be a saving grace.

Humor and a sense of same is so important, that Cayce's guidance goes out of their way to mention that Yeshua had a great sense of humor, and was even joking on the way to Calvary, and his light heartedness was what infuriated the people in power so much.

So, for me personally, Monroe's account doesn't take away from his credibility whatsoever. It could be that the E.T. was only giving Monroe part of the larger picture of why they were involved with Earth... it could be that maybe they were trying to point out something to him specifically important for him to learn at the time? Guidance can come in many different forms.

As you seem to hint, if anything Monroe wasn't stupid and unaware of human nature (having been a very successful business man for years), and it seems fairly safe to assume that he knew some more literally minded folks wouldn't take such accounts too seriously and may even think he lost credibility in relating such things. If anything, sharing such accounts and experiences may speak more for his credibility than against it.

Why is it so hard to believe that many other forms of life in the Universe are much more serious and mentally polarized than we are, and that some of these recognize the importance of a more feeling oriented approach that being human seems to teach?

I once started to write a book in my head called something like, Sirius the Grey E.T. comes to Earth to learn how to laugh and open up the heart. The premise of the book, is that the character Sirius who is originally a "Grey" is well...just overly serious and mentally polarized but senses he needs something else, another way... and he is strangely and unconsciously drawn to Earth, to humans, and to becoming a human for a time. He does, and for awhile things like "emotions" and feelings overwhelm him, so even as a human he tries to shut these down (and again his life becomes gray)... But gradually, bit by bit with interacting with more human like humans, he starts to lighten up and his Heart starts to open more and more. Then comes a time where he can often laugh deep and spontaneous Heart centered belly laughs, and make lighthearted jokes (not snide put downs like he use too).

It's really a love story. As Cayce's and other sources seem to hint, the more loving and spiritually attuned a consciousness becomes, the more it tends to see and really feel the humor in life, can and will laugh and genuinely smile a lot. Not to say that everyone developed becomes a comedian, but they do open up to that side within them more and more.

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recoverer

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #21 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 2:24pm

Rondele:

I figure Robert Monroe had lots of experiences to share, yet he shared an experience that he certainly knew would cause some people to raise their eyebrows. Huh

If anything, I believe this shows he was honest about the experiences he had.

I've had numerous experiences and I can tell that quite often they are symbolic rather than literal. It doesn't seem as if Robert always took the time to distinquish whether an experience was symbolic rather than literal, even though in his second book Far Journeys he wrote that his guidance helped him have various types of experiences for the purpose of learning.

I figure the W.C. Fields experience might be a symbolic way of saying that beings from different parts of the universe get together in order to share their experiences and knowledge. There may be beings in the universe who don't know about humor, and they learn about it from the human race. The odd part of Robert's humor experience, if I remember correctly, is that he stated that many beings don't know about humor. I can't say whether or not this is true. In figuring whether it is, one might consider why is it that human beings are able to experience humor. It may be that the World of opposites we experience is what allows the principle of humor to come into being. Other beings might not experience the same play of opposites.

It is also possible Robert interpretted his experience a bit inaccurately. The point wasn't that most other beings don't experience humor, but rather that each race has something unique to share with other races. The experiences I have had have shown me that it isn't always possible for an instructive experience to be created so that every symbol is a perfect match. Especially not if a person has numerous experiences.

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if a spirit being appeared as W.C. Fields. I've had lots of contact with beings who are more than earthbound spirits, and if there is one thing I've found, spirit beings have a sense of humor.

Think about it, if you were from an alien race that didn't know about humor, you made contact with various races for different reasons, you made contact with the human race partly because you wanted to learn about humor, wouldn't you consider joking around and appearing as W.C. Fields?

rondele wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 1:56pm:

<<I would say that Bob was a pretty credible guy overall. Many folks who have been long involved in the metaphysical/spiritual world, would say and have said that Bob is a pretty credible and balanced guy.>>

AhSo-

I'm not sure about that. One of RAM's accounts described his meeting with an alien who, per RAM, looked exactly like W.C. Fields. Top hat and all.

Anyway, the alien told him that his mission was to collect jokes from the earth plane because his planet needed cheering up.

Couple things.....Fields was more or less from RAM's generation. He probably wouldn't mean anything to most baby boomers much less younger people. So it's fair to say that this "meeting" may have been nothing more than RAM's imagination working overtime.

But in addition to that, the whole scene is pretty absurd. Yet RAM describes it as if it were a real situation derived from his explorations.

To me that takes away from his credibility big time. In fact it's amazing that RAM would have even put that in his book.

It really makes me wonder.

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« Last Edit: Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:28pm by recoverer »

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Rondele

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #22 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 3:48pm

AhSo & recoverer-

Ok, you guys gave me some food for thought!

I think I would have either deleted the entire account or would have treated it in symbolic terms, figuring that a literal account might engender the same kind of reaction that I had when I read it.
But that's me.

Sort of the same thing re. the sexual pile. I still am puzzled by that one!

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recoverer

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #23 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 3:55pm

Rondele:

Interesting that you brought up the sex pile on this thread. I suppose if a person gives too much importance to sex, they might end up in an astral sex pile some day. Robert tried to retrieve such a spirit, but he had no interest in giving up his sexual energetic. The energetic that caused him to be naturally attracted to spirits with a similar energetic. Spirits don't have physical bodies to walk about, so they tend to go where their overall way of thinking/energetic brings them.

rondele wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 3:48pm:

AhSo & recoverer-

Ok, you guys gave me some food for thought!

I think I would have either deleted the entire account or would have treated it in symbolic terms, figuring that a literal account might engender the same kind of reaction that I had when I read it.
But that's me.

Sort of the same thing re. the sexual pile. I still am puzzled by that one!

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betson

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #24 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 4:39pm

Hi All,

Maybe we could rename the 'sex pile' to be the 'lust pile.' Then we wouldn't have these misunderstandings.

Maybe we could reword this whole thread and take out the word 'sex,' as it's quite obvious that 'sex' means different things to different people.

'Fire in the furnace' can stay in the basement or can fuel the entire structure, shooting up through the penthouse's glass ceiling and moving up into the stars!

You know what I mean and I didn't have to say sex once.

Love, Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden Reply #25 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 6:08pm my goodness Bets u do have a way with words, you're absolutely right, it's time for new language, sex has got all kinds of effluvia thoughts around it, the same as the the word religion does. I'll go bake some bread now. love ya!
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #26 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 10:46pm

I agree with Alysia. Good points and quite a way with words there Bets. I've been thinking of some nonphysical pick up lines lately, "hey there advanced Soul Lass, wanna merge consciousnesses" or "let's me and you get tangled up in some tantric" or, "how you Zening?" or "Do i..speed up your vibrations and open your Heart Chakra..?" Wink

Pretty sad attempts...i know... Embarrassed

They say the 'try' is counted to us for righteousness...I hope so!

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orlando123

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #27 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 2:30pm

Quote:

Real sex to me, is 'merging' at a consciousness level, and thus can be and is a very spiritual process and experience if one doesn't become overly attached and focussed on one particular person

??

I once read someone, probably in reference to Sting's claims about long "Tantric sex" sessions, that actually Tantric sex is an advanced, difficult Buddhist practice wherby you have to achieve complete detachment while having sex... this sounds a bit like what Ah So says here, or when Vajra referred to "higher"kinds of sex where it is aimed at achieving spiritual growth more than a loving experience with the partner.

That sounds OK in theory, but a bit cold in practice (to me) - I think the best kind of sex should be where you are completely focussed on your love, connectedness and oneness with the other person and their happiness. Surely that is also, as a by-product, a way of achieving a selfless, spiritual state of some sort, without kind of ignoring your partner in the pursuit of some spiritual goal Huh

I think sex is a problematic thing for humans because it can be a basic animalistic instrict on the one side and something human and loving, even spiritual, on the other; as people have said, the sexual instincts can also be twisted in ways that create some of the most horrible and unloving kinds of human behaviour, some that even animals would not come up with. To some extent I suppose there are potentially dark sides to some other human experiences too that, used properly, can be beautiful and enjoyable

I dare say in the spirit world there are alternatives - like some people say spirits are able to "merge" in some way that is satisfying but not like physical sex

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LaffingRain

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #28 - Nov 30^th, 2007 at 2:40pm

Hi thread. lol. all of us are threads now.

I think that perhaps the human comes here to experiment. we have a body, and sex can be like an experiment until we learn what motivates us, whether hormones or wisdom and PUL.

For some, it is an experiment within the body, to some a relaxation technique as one person told me. perhaps in that sense we learn when we do a merge, or a sexual act in the body.

the sex pile I do understand, having done a retrieval of a molester; I understand, it is necessary to free the one who has this lust, as he is trapped. once to free a person from lust is like finding god. they look at the retriever and they think they see god, because now they are free. then you look into their eyes and see your self, and all you see is god looking back at you, and you are both free because god has entered the room and there is only silence..and PUL. something bigger than both of you has entered. a new day begins and self respect is born where lust had been. this because of understanding.
this because we can get so caught up in identifying ourselves as a body, while we trek through life. we are so much more than lust, or greed, or fear, or pride.

you understand it perfectly Orlando, of what it can be, a beautiful act. Tantric yoga sex, never tried, but was interested once. from what I understand, two people become mirrors to each other through the eye portal. whatever thought the other person has, it immediately is reflected back to the other who shows what you are thinking.

then this is soul talk. for instance, there is sometimes shame to arise. the partner smiles when you are ashamed perhaps...but it is brought to the open, so that in tantric, you can release to your partner any wrong thoughts, of shame, or whatever, perhaps even lust, then what happens, or supposed to happen, I am surmising, is a transmutation of the energy into joy, whereby the other accepts you as you are, despite you have less than perfect love and your body may not be as perfect either as you might like, but in tantric, you rise above all expectations of the act, including orgasm.

so it's mindful sex, whereas sex can also be a mindless thing producing momentary satisfactions but not necessarily fulfillment on spiritual levels.
the only difference I can see between a spiritual merge and a physical merge here, is that there is no period of "getting there" as in the physical body movements, and that exertion, that physical exercise.

the spiritual merge happens in just a few seconds of whirling in this other body we all possess, or are to develop.
since there are no physical barriers, with pure energy systems it could be seen to be like two vaporous clouds merging, as we are in our essence, energy systems.

in the spiritual merge both see each other's basic essence, comprised of every thought pattern they have ever had, and every emotion they have ever had, over spans of lives, this is essence. they truly are naked in that sense.

there is no shame, there is only complete celebration in merges of love, while here, all manner of crime can be committed upon the body. we are slowly but surely evolving away from these crimes.

back to bread baking...love, alysia

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pulsar

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Re: Sex - The secret gate to eden
Reply #29 - Dec 2^nd, 2007 at 11:45am

Greetings,

the only link I can see between sex and spirituality/ the afterlife (therefor also spiritual growth that leads to increasing knowledge concerning the afterlife, astral planes, aspects of others and oneself) is in fact what is the result of two persons merging, the offspring.
If looking at divinity and the act, what comes to my mind, is that the transcendence lies there, where the two persons become obstetricians, like a task given by the divine one (or even various gods/godesses).
Babies do not come from the box in the garden, nor are they delivered by a stork, thus we know.

So where to draw the line? Simply put, sex (as the act itself, and even the feelings attached to it) is a thing of the C1 body. Why do not leaving it where it belongs? That does not mean that it is something disgusting, or against nature, indeed, it is part of our human C1 nature.
If talking about where the spiritual part lies, it is obviously found while raising the offspring, being like teachers, to give the offspring the possiblity to live on its own, a wide range of responsibility (growth for the mind!!!) for the parents. So no growth during the act, rather after having "received" the "result".

I question practices like tantra, as I do not think one can be on track for a spiritual journey for verifying anything that derives from the ultimate truth, as the act is an intimate moment between two persons, so the focus also emphasises on the "in between".
If going on a journey, the travelers often use a setting that is quiet and provides inner balance between rationality and emotion (a state of just "to be"), to have the ability to focus on what lies behind the curtain.
So a highly emotional moment does not give the surroundings for receiving, but that is only my poor pov.

Tantra sounds too much like a foul compromise. When spiritual growth means also leaving behind body-bound behaviour, feeling the need for sex is also something to get over with. It has its time and place in life. I do not point out and do not want to start a discussion on if it is for personal pleasure or not, that is up to everyone to decide.
Sex might be an experiment, but the experimental phase is something to get over with, everything has its time and place in life, and after the experimental phase, there comes responsibility. To control this kind of feelings, to make room for the next step (the "obstetrician-phase", after having received a baby), lies also within our nature.

But there are aspects of a relationship, that replace the experimental phase, such as trust, faithfulness, etc.
Might sound conservative, but as life is bound to change, this aspects also change.

yours sincerely,

pulsar

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