Don, I don’t know if the concept of a soul disk or group soul for that matter is either true or false. Both could be descriptions of non-physical realm experiences that are simply interpreted as best one can in ELS terms even if misguided, as you mentioned.

I don’t know as though I could explain the concept any better, but the way I understand this is that the ‘total being’ of which I am a part of or a “consciousness stream” of is always experiencing non-physical reality even while I, my physical consciousness self is living a life here in ELS. There is no true separation between me as an “earth being” and me as an aspect of my “total being” except my ELS consciousness is not fully aware of my total being that exists in non-physical reality. When I die my ELS consciousness simply fades away and my ELS experiences become like a movie my total being watched and learned from. The problem with most interpretations is the concept/belief of us being separated from our total being. We are not.

In my view if reincarnation does occur, it would be a “total being” sending out a stream of it’s consciousness to experience ELS or any other system available to it and the results of that “lifetime” would simply be like a movie total self watched. Total self would not be a bunch of individuals that make up total self’s substance/essence/consciousness. The persons known as Don or Kathy are each their individualized total self with a portion of their consciousness constrained to this physical reality for a period of ELS time. When death occurs, the movie is over and Don or Kathy’s ELS consciousness fades into their individualized total being consciousnesses. (Each to his/her own.) Sometimes help is needed with the “integration” process, but eventually that is accomplished.

Non-physical reality is not much different than physical reality. The main difference is there are less confining laws in non-physical reality. Non-physical reality actually only appears non-physical to ELS consciousness beings. After we die and sometimes when we explore that realm we do not perceive it as being non-physical at all. In fact it appears even more real than physical reality. Consciousness wise, the beings that inhabit the non-physical are not necessarily any different than the beings here in ELS. There are all types, just as many and more than in ELS. The physical reality evolves out of the non-physical reality and our total being’s non-physical experience is continuous.

If I remember correctly, ES talks about beings living in societies. Earlier in this thread you asked about what qualities beings would have that would attract them to the same heavenly community. I now think the answer is the quality of the consciousness of the being. “Quality of consciousness” means for the most part, the same as it means here (ELS) except it is experienced differently in non-physical reality. Our purpose is to grow spiritually which is to BE love. Non-physical beings that have a high quality consciousness radiate love. Communication is by telepathy, but mostly it is by feeling. When I say feeling I mean state of being rather than emotions, which come and go depending on stimulus. So if you and I and a bunch of others radiate the same “type” of love consciousness from our “total being’ we could all exist within the same community, each of us as our individualized ‘total being’ interacting similar to how people interact in ELS, with some differences of course because of differing laws/rules, etc. (Anyone for a game of chess?   )

Yes, I think you are correct there is no space. That is an illusion. However, as you say, time does exist in non-physical reality, but on a different frequency than what we, as ELS beings are aware of. The beginning of time began when primordial consciousness first noticed a change from one state to another, a before and after state of being. I think the concept that time is simultaneous is incorrect because physical beings exploring the non-physical mistake the higher frequency as being simultaneous. It’s a lot “faster” but not simultaneous.

Good to see this thread active again.

Kathy

Quote:


I think you've got it Bets.

Time, like individualization and freewill are all intrinsic to consciousness. We all have plenty of time to evolve (or devolve) our consciousness. We are totally free to choose whether or not we intend love or fear as motivation for our actions.

Kathy 

[Al;an:] "Christianity only speaks about three heavens in the scriptures ."
_______________________________________________________
This issue is addressed in reply #4.   Paul locates Paradise in the 3rd Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2-3), the standard locale of Paradise in ancient Judaism.  But ancient Judaism varies in its estimate of whether there are 3, 5, 7, or 10 heavens.  It is therefore highly possible that Paul inferred from his OBE that there are more than 3 heavens.  Jesus' allusion to "many" pre-prepared postmortem "resting places" (Greek: "mone"--John 14:2-3) is best taken as a reference to many levels of heavens rather than as many buildings.   

Don

Rondelle:

The experiences of some people have found differently than what Don contends, including my experiences. A combination of experiences and spirit messages told me that the disk viewpoint is true in some way. These experiences and messages happened in a way where it wasn't a matter of my imagination spinning out mullarkey.

There are near death experiencers who have found the same thing in their own way.  Consider the below words of Thomas Sawyer. What do they add up to? P.M.H. Atwater found that only one finger of our soul incarnates. What does this imply? Also posted is what Ron Kruger experienced during his NDE.

Perhaps disks join with other disks to form soul groups. When people find out about souls within a group, they sometimes don't find out how extensive each soul, as a disk, is.

The disk viewpoint doesn't need to be viewed as an unpleasant thing. If your higher self and disk members live according to love and divine will, why would this be a problem?

From Thomas Sawyer's NDE:
"Reincarnation is not a linear thing. One of the problems in defining it is that there is no analogy to it. It is outside of time, yet we can't help but think of it in terms of the past and the future, and this incarnation. The whole story is so big and so involved.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to reach a goal. The goal is true self-realization. Self-realization is to know that you are a soul, a part of God, yet also the Whole. Perhaps no one has a very good image at all of his or her soul - the whole self. And they have no idea of what proportion their personality is in relationship to their soul.

As an example, a characteristic of your personality is one percent of all of your personality characteristics put together, and all of your personality characteristics make up your personality, and your personality is only about five percent of your soul, then we are blinding ourselves to 95 percent of the rest of our soul in order to reincarnate.

Reincarnation is an opportunity to evolve through many personalities. The definition of reincarnation is that your personality is who you are in your current lifetime, and that it can be reincarnated as an entirely different personality with the characteristics of the previous personality and previous personalities including even characteristics of another soul altogether. That is, characteristics of your present personality may be the reincarnation of other characteristics of personalities from your previous lifetimes as well as characteristics from personalities from other souls."

FROM RON Kruger's NDE:
"THE HEAVENLY PLAINS

What I’ll call the “Heavenly Plains” was full of loving peace. An infinite expanse of glorious light enveloped and permeated everything. This light was evenly distributed and seemed to undulate gently with a force field.

Directly in front of me, but slightly below, stood a group of spirits: less than 100, but more than 50. Each spirit had an identity of sorts, but they were part of each other–a single entity, a single awareness, all part of a single force. In the center of the front row were three oriental women. I realized that all of the spirits comprising the entity were my past lives, and that the oriental women were my most recent lives.

Their faces were clearly humanoid, but from their shoulders down, their forms blurred gradually. Their arms and legs dissolved near their ends. Hovering on the same level, in rows, they seemed loosely joined at the shoulders. Their identities were of both sexes and all nationalities. None were deceased relatives, and I recognized none of them from my recent life.

Each of the spirits had lived once, but the truth and experience and wisdom of each lifetime was integral to the entire group. When each soul returned, their lives were absorbed by all, so there where no distinctions between thoughts and attitudes within the group. Each of them shared completely every experience and every knowledge of every lifetime into a single conscience. Like spices and other ingredients added to a Mulligan Stew, each added to the mix, but the resulting flavor was one. I was them, and they were me. There were all of my past, and they were my present.

They communicated with me as one, not with words, but by a kind of telepathy. Every thought, whether it was one simple emotion or volumes of information, came packaged with instant and complete understanding. No message could suffer misinterpretation, the problems of syntax, or the variance of intelligence."









rondele wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 2:13pm:

Albert-

Let's take as a premise that Jesus was in fact the Son of God, and that His teachings were truthful.

If that is correct, then it seems to me that something doesn't quite add up.  Why would He say, for instance, that the wages of sin is death?  After all, if we really are comprised of many different...and conflicting..personalities, that means at times we've been saints and sometimes sinners, maybe even murderers.

So why would Jesus be so adamant and uncompromising if He knew that we are a "mulligan stew" of different characteristics?

After all, if we are both good and evil, then wouldn't He have been a bit more understanding?

R

Albert,

You and Dude act as if personal experience with no compelling verifications entitles you to dismiss personal experience with awesome verfications (Swedenborg and the best of mediumship).  You distort my position and make no attempt to explain ES's later disillusionment with his astral experiences of what he mistook for his own reincarnation memories. In my view, your persistence in ducking a plausible counter view just shows that you are imposing a New Age doctrinal overlay on to a misunderstood experience.   And as Albert knows very well, I am not rejecting the Group Soul doctrine; I am merely challenging your interpretation of it, given the alternative view that comes from a more credible adept and is metaphysically coherent in a way that you have failed to explain for your perspective.  Let me try again: What is your perspective on how multiple selves can be independently conscious as individuals, and at the same time, conscious as one Overself?  What do these soul fragments actually do in their sequential activities?

Roger, I find "soul pre-existence," but no reincarnation concept in "Lighted Passage."  But I cannot find your quote on page 215.  Would you please check it and see if you have cited the wrong page?

Don  

Quote:


Although this question was directed towards Albert, I am going to answer as well. 

The way I understand it is as follows.  A "being" of a very high vibration, lets call him "Mr.Disk," basically decides to explore the physical dimension first hand.  The entirety of Mr.Disk's consciousness cannot exist in the physical dimension, however.  Mr.Disk has to be involved with much more than his incarnation's ego-self activities... he has to deal with the developement and regulation of his incarnation's body and its functions, the activities of his incarnation's subconscious mind, and the process by which his incarnation manifests his reality through his thoughts and beliefs.  Mr.Disk is responsible for all aspects of his incarnation's existence, yet his incarnation, being consciously unaware of him(Mr.Disk), is in control of his own life from his own narrow perspective. 

Mr.Disk filters himself into multiple time frames as multiple individuals.  He is intimately aware of each aspect of his consciousness, for it is from his consciousness, his energy, that these individuals get their lives from, and although his incarnations are not consciously aware of him during waking hours, during the dream state they consciously reconnect and interact with Mr.Disk.  So at the level of Mr.Disk, all of these incarnated individuals are at a state of oneness with each other, for Mr.Disk's consciousness encompasses all of them.  Mr.Disk has his own unique consciousness at his level of existence, PLUS he is the consciousness of all of his incarnated personalities.  Of course, at their individual level of consciousness while on earth, they appear to be separate beings existing on their own.  In reality, they are all one with each other, for the very essence of their being, the core of their existence, is Mr.Disk.

This is the relationship as I see it between disk members and their oversoul.  It seems pretty coherent to me.