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The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs (Read 13726 times)
vajra
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Re: The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs
Reply #30 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 5:26pm
 
That (tendency to appear during NDEs etc) might be a lot to do Don with the fact that (if I've got it right) traditional Christians are the only ones (?) who have actually deified their teacher, made him an independently existing singular and immortal God.

I'm not sure about what Islam teaches (but they seem to quite clearly separate and distinguish between God and the Prophet) but is it not the case that they see Muhummad as having been an enlightened human teacher of one sort or another?.

I've never heard anything that leads me to think that Buddhists would expect to somehow meet the Buddha - they conceive of him as having been just one of many emanations of the true nature of mind  (albeit one of a very few who having reached his level incarnated in a physical body) who in the form he lived is long dead. He's not (at this level of a single being) seen as having been an immortal God or anything like that.

The very many emanations (check here for one listing http://www.buddhanature.com/#adi) ; correspond to the multiple aspects of (ultimately the only) mind there is. All can help us in working with our own mind.

Bear in mind as well that that principle (Buddha nature) is seen as not just a higher principle but as the ultimate nature of all of us. Go within and this is ultimately what you find. But you also find yourself.....
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Berserk2
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Re: The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs
Reply #31 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 5:54pm
 
Vajra,

Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not God in the flesh.  You miss the point of the Muslim mullah's [Ahmed] NDE encounter with Jesus.  His encounter was so glorious that it converted him from Islam to Christianity, despite the fact that he hated Christians and wanted to kill the Christian couple who visited him in the hospitial and prayed for his healing!  

As for Buddhists not expecting an encounter with the Buddha, you overlook the important distinction between the Buddhism taught in the monasteries and the vulgarized Buddhism of the ordinary masses.  Buddhists do have dreams of the Buddha (e. g. Wang Chien-line's regular dreams of the Buddha in a Pure Land Buddhist text.  Also, Buddhists constantly depict the Buddha (Siddartha Gautama) in art and statues.  In the trauma of death, Buddhists encounter a greeting party like most Christians.  One would expect the Buddha to show up often.  But he doesn't.  Why not?  Also, remember that there is nothing in the Bible that predicts that, immediately after dying, Christians will be greeted by a Being of Light identifying Himself as Christ.  Christians expect to meet Christ later when they arrive in Heaven. Indeed, many conservative Christians believe that Christ's NDE appearance as the Being of Light is a demonic counterfeit experience!

Don
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briggsandurlacher3
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Re: The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs
Reply #32 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 7:04pm
 
Don,

Then explain to me than why people have hellish nde's of hells of fire and brimstone with demons torturing people like  they did in the medieval times..??? Are you implying there is a hell like that created by God mr. smarty pants..??

peace
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vajra
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Re: The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs
Reply #33 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 8:58pm
 
My thought Don was only that since so much energy and intensity have been poured into the idea of Jesus as God it as a concept must have become invested with enormous power (belief) over the years.

Meaning presumably that the Mullah might unintentionally whether as a result of some exposure or past life have tapped into this, with the outcome that you describe. (we can bring up lots that we'd consciously rather not)

But that's not necessarily an indication of the superiority or accuracy of any particular belief though.

On the Buddha. I wasn't suggesting that individuals don't dream of him, or that many ordinary punters don't see him as a deity. But the institutions do not teach this, and most certainly do not dictate  worship in the way institutional Christianity did of Jesus. (it'd be wholly in conflict with teaching) The Pure Land sect is similar as best i know.

So my suggestion was only that this as a result can't have the same power as the Jesus belief, which might  explain the differing NDE expereinces you mentioned. I'm unsure as to why it should be a matter of issuing challenges....
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Berserk2
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Re: The Rarity of Truly Impressive ADCs
Reply #34 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 9:51pm
 
briggsandurlacher,

First, many hellish plains are perceived without fire imagery.  This is certainly true of some biblical texts about hell. Seocond, I never claimed that prior expectations have nothing to do with what is experienced in an NDE.  Clearly, preconceptions shape one's interpretations of the energies and vistas witnessed.  I was objecting to your oversimplification of the situation.  NDEs of atheists, for example, and many others routinely contain elements that are contrary to prior expectation and conditioning.

Third, in early Judaism and Christianity, "fire" is routinely used as a purification symbol.  The same communities that speak of hellfire also talk about how "cold" hell is.  The imagery is clearly figurative.  So what is the spiritual reality behind these perceptions?  The negative energies of the clashing minds of "lower" planes is often visually translated in terms of fire. 

Don


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