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meaning of enlightenment/self-realisation (Read 8000 times)
vajra
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Re: meaning of enlightenment/self-realisation
Reply #15 - Oct 22nd, 2007 at 5:17am
 
We're probably in a pretty similar place then Dave, although I've not made a serious study of older Tibetan writings and tend to rely on more recent writings and teachings that purport to draw on them.

It's possible that we differ a bit in degree of scepticism though. My tendency is to rarely dump ideas that seem genuine and to make a fairly coherent argument - I've often found that with enough reflection they fit and offer valuable insights but use differing terminology or maybe emphasise differing aspects of experience. Or that maybe there's insight in the view, but the author overplays his hand a little.

I'd better not start explaining exactly why I think it's the case or it'll be another half page post that leaves nobody any the wiser, but my sense is that UJK is actually driving at a really important truth when viewed from the correct perspective (perhaps that the cocoon of selective perception dooms solely self driven 'doing' and intellectual  methods to failure, that the help of Grace or higher mind is needed and that this is the critical bit) but that maybe in his efforts to emphasise this (against the very formulaic one size fits all approaches that the traditions tend to teach) he overstates his case.

I suspect that he's correct in that the 'going through the motions' meditation and other practice that results from the contact of most with Buddhist teachings delivers only very slow change in people (or maybe heads off a slide in the wrong direction), but that equally path/process matters. (despite his emphasising no path there are from the short biopic I read actually big similarities between his life path and that of other seemingly spontaneous realisations like say Eckhardt Tolle.

I suspect that Tibetan Buddhism knows this bloody well too, but that this and the more nuanced version of what enlightenment truly is are only overtly discussed at the highest levels of practice and teaching - there's loads of room within the multitude of strands taught for radical views like this......

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dave_a_mbs
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Re: meaning of enlightenment/self-realisation
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 8:51pm
 
I recall a class in Sufism that I took many years back. (I also recall the Final Exam, where I had forgotten what the word "suf" meant - it means "wool", since that's what a lot of sufis wore.)

Later on I visited a conclave where Surat Shabd Yoga (literally, "soul sound union") was practiced. It's the yoga of the cosmic sound current - the mysticism of Omar and Kabir. I had first become aware of it through Sant Kirpal Singh when he spoke in San Francisco.  As I entered, and as I left, I saluted the pyr's photo. That night as I meditated I found myself immersed in the heart center, which is the basis of the type of yoga they use.  It was a literal location of awareness, together with awareness of the pulse beat, flow of blood etc. An objective description can be found at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surat_Shabd_Yoga . With theory, try www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/col/col-5a.htm. For technique that actually works try santhakar.tripod.com - The brilliance of the inner light and impact of the whole experience is definitely going to stay with anyone who masters this! Wink

The same technique can be found in the Upanishads, where we are told to listen to the sound of the heart in the right ear, not the left, and to go into the heart, riding the gong-like sound. (In Richard Burton's Khasiddah he refers to it as the "tinkling of a camel's bell".  As the sound develops, it first sounds like a drum, but later on it sounds quite like a baritone cowbell.)

The kind of enlightenment that arises from this type of experience is different in its beginnings, although it moves onward toward more familiar ideas later. One of the interesting things is that there are proposed a large number of levels of awareness, some of which are said to be illusory, and inhabited by a negative demonic being whose task is to confuse us.  The meaning might turn out to be just another way to look at the astral levels, but using different criteria to differentiate them.

I get the impression that all the pathways to the truth eventually lead there, but that they take people through radically divergent experiences. I have a very rare mimeographed article by Swami Naryanananda, "Kundalini, the Primal Power in Man"  in which he points out that there are a very large number of ways to attain enlightened awareness. In specific, drugs, illness, emotional catastrophe and similar events are equally useful and valid as are the more traditional yoga methods. As an old hippie I really liked getting an official opinion that I hadn't wasted my time. Smiley

In principle, all these levels of awareness are also available through hypnosis, but I've had poor luck producing them. However, I would guess that most people remain tied to the pathway through which they reached a higher level of awareness, and that this connection is going to color their experiences strongly. The inference is that we have dozens of kinds of enlightenment experiences, all being of the exact same ultimate nature.

Meanwhile, for those who are looking for a new and interesting thing to do, this meditative method is possibly a little easier than "contemplating your navel". (Makes more sense, too.)

Mysticism in Arab lands seems to be pretty much at the same kind of stalemate as for Christian mystics in the Dark Ages - if you deviated from the orthodoxy, they killed you. Same as now in Iran and other related places. I kinda wonder where this is going to lead over the next few centuries. As with Taoism, Buddhism, and Christianity, at the end of the Dark Ages comes the Renaissance. Maybe Mullah Nasrudin will mount his mule and ride off into the sunset.   Smiley

My URL brackety things don't seem to work very well, but you can copy and paste the addresses.  Embarrassed

d
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vajra
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Re: meaning of enlightenment/self-realisation
Reply #17 - Oct 27th, 2007 at 7:15pm
 
Thanks Dave. Doing some reading on those links...
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