I cannot believe you posted this Blink:

"[quote author=blink link=1192113462/60#74 date=1192890162]Osho has this to say about the Master:

The Master in Zen is not a master over others, but a master of himself --and this self-mastery is reflected in his every gesture and his every word."

The article I posted clearly shows that Osho "DID NOT" live according to his own words.

This might sound off topic, but please bare with me. One of the main reasons George W. Bush was re-elected, is because human beings are largely emotional beings.  So often we think according to our emotions, without allowing the rational part of ourselves to balance things out. People who run political parties realize this. In the case of the people who ran George W. Bush's re-election campaign they used this fact to get the state of Florida (a very key state in the election process) to vote for Bush rather than John Kerry,  by really placing emphasis on the swift boat incident. If the voters in Florida used their discrimination, they would've realized that an interpretation of what happened in Vietnam years ago, is not more important than current issues. But the Republicans realized that many people would allow their emotional responses to determine who they vote for. They used the same type of emotional manipulation when they emphasized the gay marriage issue.

With the above in mind, it is important to realize that when it comes to discriminating sources of information, it isn't enough to do so in an emotional manner.  Too often such an approach leads to folly. What are the emotional factors that might cause a person to falsely access that a source of information is valid? One factor is that some of us have an inner yearning to know what spiritual truth is. If we find a source that makes statements that sound true, we are liable to become excited about doing so. If somebody finds particulars about a source that invalidates such a source, one might not be willing to see them, because one's false association of spiritual validity with a false source, causes one to cling. All one needs to do to free one's self from such a conundrum, is see that the existence of spiritual truth isn't dependent upon any particular source of information. Spiritual truth has been here long before mankind started to present it in various ways.

Another reason one might be overly quick to validate a false source of information, is because one wants to have an open minded, trusting and loving approach to life. It is certainly fine that one wants to be open minded, trusting and loving; but if one doesn't balance things out with reason, errors in judgement will occur.

Why do I feel so strongly about this issue that I keep discussing it? One reason is because I believe that a lot of us have come into this World to help change the World for the better, by increasing its vibrational rate and increasing its love level. People who have an inclination to move in such a direction, are quite often the people who get attracted to the many false gurus etc that exist. Even though they might find some valid information while with a false guru, they will also find some false information. I've found that this false information is more abundant than many people realize.  When we take on a limiting false belief system it doesn't help us reach our spiritual goals, it gets in the way.

Another reason I feel so strongly against false gurus, is because many people become disenchanted with their spiritual quest after going through what gurus cause people to go through. I wonder how much higher this World's vibrational rate would be, if these people weren't disenchanted.

Another reason I feel so strongly against false gurus, is because in addition to the disenchantment factor, many people go through negative things while with false gurus. For example, many people have problems with kundalini that was awakened while with a false guru. Their gurus promissed them that their kundalini would unfold very smoothly because of their guru's "spiritual" influence. The fact of the matter is that in many cases gurus couldn't help their followers with their kundalini problems. Numerous people with awakened kundalini have gone insane. Some have committed suicide.  For some things haven't been as extreme, but it has been a rough ride.

Many people have had negative experiences with false gurus because they have had their money taken from them; familial relationships ruined; and have been emotionally, physically and sexually abused. Often, people go their entire life without getting over the trauma they went through.

In a way, being under the spell of a false guru is the same as being a schizophrenic. One lives in a World of delusion that isolates one from the rest of reality. Many people, including myself, have found that this is the case when one follows a false guru.  

"Another reason I feel so strongly against false gurus,..."

Recoverer, you have repeated this phrase several times in your well-defined statement.

Thank you for sharing your heart with us here. This is a place where the heart talks, and I am glad that it does.

love, blink

You're welcome Blink:

I believe that most people are interested in sharing love on this forum. Sometimes people have differences of opinion on what loving behavior is. If some people want to view me as an ogre that is fine with me.

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Good points Blink, but i would also like to expand this a bit more.   We human beings a curious mixture of True and false self, of nonphysical and physical energies, etc.   

  In the more purely nonphysical dimensions, change, vibrational uppage, and belief system transformations can happen pretty 'quickly'.  The nonphysical is very fluidic.   Physical on the other hand, is a collective thought form of a range of rather slow vibrating, more static, and thus much more "dense" for a lack of a better term.  In other words, the physical is much harder to push or move, than the nonphysical. 

  In my long years of studying astrology and people's charts, i've noticed that so many people, while there is constant flux and change from one day to another on the emotional levels and spectrum's of energy, that on the mental and spiritual levels...well these are much slower changing relatively speaking when compared to the emotional.   In the physical, we rarely have the Sylvia type experiences as Bruce outlined.    Occasionally does happen, and anything is possible of course.  So while you are not exactly the same person as you were 20 years ago, there may be still many similarities, tendencies, and general ranges of energy vibration.  You may be one of the more extreme and unusual cases as i just mentioned, but you must understand that this is not the average.

  These changes on the various energy levels can be seen in the aura of a person.  Again, like with astro. charts, many people's mental and spiritual energy levels don't change all that much while physically incarnate.   Usually a little tweaking here and there.   Yet emotionally, we may run the entire gamut of feelings and thoughts in just one day!   

  Let's apply this to Osho.   Osho seems to be one who really strongly and consistently indulged  and concentrated on the false self nature.   Does this mean that he was made up of only the false self, and never acted, felt, thought, etc. from the True self?   Of course not, but what was his tendencies, what was consistent about him throughout his life, as far as we are aware?   This, and these patterns are what links to that term "spiritual development".    As Recoverer said in many various ways, it does no one any immediate good to pay to close of attention to teachers of lower spiritual development and who had such destructive consistent tendencies in this life, even if their words sound fancy or good. 

  I'm sure Osho had his good moments, and truly wise acts, thoughts, words, and deeds, but what happens when others align to his vibrational patterns, which in reality were rather inharmonious and slow vibrating?    It can have a resonating affect on a person's consciousness, it's like an astrological 'influence' it impels, but does not compel.  Meaning, that a person's will is potentially the strongest factor, but that outer energies do have a tendency of influencing us both consciously and espeically unconsciously.

  This, this is why it is so important to follow the teachings, words, and especially living examples of those who are truly Enlightened first, and to those near so.   There are more "objective" ways of finding this out, the core colors of a person's Soul in the nonphysical sense, and then the color indications and harmony or lack thereof of the overall aura, can indicate in a more objective, and universally perceptible way the degree of spiritual development of a person in that moment, and in the broader, Soul sense.

  Having had occasional and temporary "extreme" and more negative than not periods in my life, such as once viewed on this site, i know full well the importance of forgiveness, and overlooking of faults and temporal actions, but i have not set myself up as a spiritual teacher to others in the ways that Osho or others have.  I'm not trying to materially profit off anyone here, or trying to gain a following.    I may someday write one book, but that's about the extent of it.

Can you tell me, Recoverer and AhSo, who would be your choice to join you in a cup of tea? That is, if Osho leaves the room for the moment.

I don't actually have a preference, if you want to know. I am willing to be dazzled and enlightened by anyone or anything at all.

Everyone is invited to this tea room, and there is plenty of tea to go around.

love, blink

Wow! More responses for a very enjoyable conversation. But I've got to run, and will post tomorrow. Love you all.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 26^th, 2007 at 12:14am:


  Are you being for real?  You just recently insinuated (actually more than insinuated) all kinds of personally negative things about Albert, which you had no right nor basis in reality to do so--you seemed to have been reacting out of defensiveness and over-emotionality.  In any case, i would count that as saying stuff about others.
  Albert on the other hand, has admitted in the past when he was being to judgmental or what not with others on a personal level. 
  Please don't take this too personally Alysia, as i do like, respect, and care for you.  I like and appreciate your usually upbeat, and oft humorous vibe.