Conversation Board - A cup of tea

vajra

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #60 - Oct 13^th, 2007 at 7:13pm

I think maybe we were getting a little heavy and intellectual about it all there. Thanks for bringing up this and for emphasising the heart side guys.

That said I think we're in more or less the same space, more that the style of expression and the aspects addressed are a little different.

The bit that's clear is that we have to take ownership of our own path, with or without the help of an external teacher. But that equally we come equipped for this journey - that if we will look within we will find what we need as and when we need it......

Back to top

IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #61 - Oct 13^th, 2007 at 7:31pm

Yes, the fire, which must be watched. And handled with care...

blink

Quote:

Quote:

Fascinating, all of you.

I realize that I have had occasion to spend time with many gurus in my life...and I am grateful for each one. The ones I felt that I chose, and also those accidental meetings along the road. It is a life of riches to enounter gurus of all sorts. As a matter of fact, gurus are everywhere I look...how lucky am I!

love, blink

This thread as become as varied as tea itself. Hi Beautiful Blinking one, very important Heart balance and point you bring up. I agree, and realize that most of us (me very much included), could stand to focus more on the truth that we all are teachers or students at different moments.

All in all, i feel that for me, i should try to follow more my own inner guru, than looking outside.

But, beyond these broad generalizations, i thought we were talking more specifically about those individuals who set themselves up as teachers of truth to others either directly or indirectly, such as Osho?

When these are knowingly false, and being destructive to others, sometimes they need to be blasted away (their falseness), just as did Yeshua with the false teachers of his time, the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes.

Water first, then Fire, Blink, Fire.....

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #62 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 2:09pm

Blink:

I don't regret the time I spent with false gurus because it was a part of my growth process. Consider one group I was with. Some of the teachings were true and I benefited accordingly. I spent a lot of time meditating during this period and this was beneficial. I got to know and live with some wonderful loving people. Their hearts were purer than the guru who led the group. I had two cats that I otherwise wouldn't of had. I learned about eating healthy. It did take some time to clear away the false ideas I picked up while with the group.

The feeling I get from you is that you're a very nice and loving person. When you're done with your current physical life, you're bound to end up in a very nice higher realm. I didn't write what I wrote because I want to be a hard case. It is just that I feel compelled to share what I've learned. Perhaps others will benefit.

Quote:

Fascinating, all of you.

I realize that I have had occasion to spend time with many gurus in my life...and I am grateful for each one. The ones I felt that I chose, and also those accidental meetings along the road. It is a life of riches to enounter gurus of all sorts. As a matter of fact, gurus are everywhere I look...how lucky am I!

love, blink

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #63 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 2:16pm

I agree with what you say Alysia.

When it comes to learning from others, I feel I can learn more from the people who visit this forum, than I can learn from gurus. One big difference between us and them, is that none of us here seem to be suggesting that we have all of the answers or are perfected masters. Therefore, none of us needs to be limited by what the other has found.

I believe it is rare for people to become a perfected, all knowing master while here in the physical. This is okay. We just need to get pointed in the right direction. We can sense this direction by seeing how much PUL is found.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 13^th, 2007 at 1:16pm:

thoughts on how to approach teachers...

just to approach your higher self as a teacher for yourself.

if you do find a guru or teacher "out there" somewhere, and if they are a genuine teacher of spiritual measure, meaning at mastership level or approaching that, it will be their born and sworn duty to dash all your expectations that they have some secret knowledge which you do not possess.
I noticed you're a meditator who often enters that blissed awareness. that is where your teacher is hiding.

love, alysia

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #64 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 2:29pm

Dave:

My definition of enlightenment is being able to live "completely" according to love, and understanding things according to what universal mind reveals, rather than what our beliefs assert.

This seems to be a hard state to reach, because our egoic tendencies of mind have a different goal. Such tendencies try to secure safety, continuity, happiness, peace and love, by defining what reality is all about according to their whims. They make it so one isn't willing to completely let go, so one can see how things really are. Once one does so, I doubt that what one finds can be boxed/packaged within a particular system of thought, whatever that system of thought might be.

Back to top

IP Logged

vajra

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #65 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 6:07pm

Good stuff R, and broadly my view as well. I think that much like in everything we often tend to think of gurus (teachers is maybe a better word with less baggage attached) in terms of polarities (perfect or a fake) when the reality is that everything from your inner guide to your cat to life circumstances to your awkward neighbour to the guy at the local meditation centre with delusions is to one degree or another your guru.

But that our ability to draw from any of these is determined by our degree of awakening.

That in a way the most important step is to drop the expectation of finding or needing a perfect guru (that's not to say that they haven't or don't exist, although as already said i suspect that our ability to truly judge this increases only as we ourselves progress), and to start to work with what presents - both within and without of us....

Back to top

IP Logged

orlando123 Senior Member Offline Posts: 258 France	Re: A cup of tea Reply #66 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 6:12pm That sounds sensible to me
Back to top	IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #67 - Oct 15^th, 2007 at 7:04pm

Right Vajra:

There are many things that can teach us. For example, I have a boss who isn't into spiritual things, but I can learn a thing or two from her about being patient.

Quote:

Good stuff R, and broadly my view as well. I think that much like in everything we often tend to think of gurus (teachers is maybe a better word with less baggage attached) in terms of polarities (perfect or a fake) when the reality is that everything from your inner guide to your cat to life circumstances to your awkward neighbour to the guy at the local meditation centre with delusions is to one degree or another your guru.

But that our ability to draw from any of these is determined by our degree of awakening.

That in a way the most important step is to drop the expectation of finding or needing a perfect guru (that's not to say that they haven't or don't exist, although as already said i suspect that our ability to truly judge this increases only as we ourselves progress), and to start to work with what presents - both within and without of us....

Back to top

IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #68 - Oct 16^th, 2007 at 7:44am

I like this definition, Recoverer, because it makes the important point that the universal mind reveals what it will, according to our understanding.

It seems that our ego does, indeed, have a different goal, and would like for this ilfe, and this universe, to fit neatly into a rather small package. On our rather small packages we each have fastened or written signs of all sorts to the Creator, as we see the Creator. "Good things belong in here!" "Leave my package alone!" "Don't drop on the floor, PLEASE!"

But our packages get all tossed around in transit. Some of us end up in the astral conveyor belt by accident, or deliberate intent. "Astral traveler, here."

The Creator says, "Please don't shoot the messenger....but we're awfully busy back here. We'll try to get you where you need to be, but we can't promise you'll get there from point A to point B.

As a matter of fact, you may go from point A to point T and then back to point C again. Just the way it works here. But I'll make sure you have a good view, that is, if you want one."

love, blink

recoverer wrote on Oct 15^th, 2007 at 2:29pm:

Dave:

My definition of enlightenment is being able to live "completely" according to love, and understanding things according to what universal mind reveals, rather than what our beliefs assert.

This seems to be a hard state to reach, because our egoic tendencies of mind have a different goal. Such tendencies try to secure safety, continuity, happiness, peace and love, by defining what reality is all about according to their whims. They make it so one isn't willing to completely let go, so one can see how things really are. Once one does so, I doubt that what one finds can be boxed/packaged within a particular system of thought, whatever that system of thought might be.

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: A cup of tea Reply #69 - Oct 16^th, 2007 at 7:37pm The subject of Osho came up at another forum. http://www.kundalini-support.com/forum/index.php/topic,1591.0.html
Back to top	IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #70 - Oct 18^th, 2007 at 8:29am

So, is one ruined forever by association with "another's" foolishness?

Not to dismiss accountability, but aren't each of us different people than we were yesterday?

Is my word bad because I lied years ago? Am I the little boy who cried wolf? I see a tumultuous journey, and one who was both wise and foolish in a lifetime....

If someone were to take a picture of me twenty years ago, and now, do I look the same? Or could you find good and bad wrapped up in every moment?

It is inexplicable how we change in our lives...in ways we cannot imagine. And some of us have some rather "interesting" devils to contend with, being born as we are...

And so, it is our job to become a human being. It is becoming, always becoming.

love, blink

Back to top

IP Logged

vajra

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #71 - Oct 18^th, 2007 at 11:29am

Nice thoughts Blink & R. I'm not a big believer in the idea that have somehow to attach ourselves to a perfect guru, or even to a single teacher. Not surprising I suppose given my view that most teachers do not exhibit perfect realisation. Its probably is a good idea to commit to a clear path as defined by one tradition though, in that too much 'sleeping around' risks dilution of our focus on what is a pretty tough task anyway - one that requires focused work.

I've only read a few of his books, but my inclination is to defend Osho because I've never read anything that he wrote that didn't stand up. As before I suspect that much of what he gets fingered for was the doing of his group, or is down to misunderstandings based on differing societal values.

I'm a huge cat fan too, our cats have taught me so much about resting in presence, about catching that vibe. Animals I guess are in some ways much closer to realisation than we often are simply because a less complex and more passive intellect provides less opportunity for them to get lost in ego. So they are much better at remaining in the now.

On the other hand they all seem no more than ourselves to be lost in the dream of belief in physical selfhood. With the disadvantage of not having enough intellect to provide the alternative overview that seems to be the first step on the way to the different unselfish (loving) view that enlightenment entails.

We in contrast have this crazy almost uncontrollable monkey brain which causes almost as many problems as it solves. But at least (with Grace) it gives us the potential for realisation.

I often think though that enlightenment while of itself an absolute phenomenon (its taught) may be a relative rather than an absolute phenomenon at this level despite the opposite being implied. In the sense that if we're physically or intellectually challenged there may be limits to what we can manifest. Or that if in a future life we end up driving a massively faster and more capable brain it may take time for us to learn to maximise our use of it to manifest PUL - even if we remain free of the basic misconception of physical selfhood.

PUL is for sure the indicator of an enlightened person. But while at core we all have it and all can recognise it given right circumstances I suspect it's often the case that the static created by egotistical mind obscures both transmission and reception.....

Back to top

IP Logged

AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #72 - Oct 18^th, 2007 at 10:33pm

recoverer wrote on Oct 16^th, 2007 at 7:37pm:

The subject of Osho came up at another forum.

http://www.kundalini-support.com/forum/index.php/topic,1591.0.html

I laughed my butt off when i read this line from that article, "At least one of those twelve Buddhalicious Babes"

Buddhalicious..., i'm gonna start using that one! "Becky, you're vibing so Buddhaliciously right now" Cheesy

(i'm not trying to be negatively irreverent to the Buddha, i sometimes make fun of Yeshua and my respect for him is deeper and wider than the ocean).

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #73 - Oct 19^th, 2007 at 5:45pm

Hey AhSo:

It wasn't Osho's fault that he did things such as have women he referred to as Buddhalicious not wear any panties. His evil followers must've possessed and him forced him to this and the other negative things he did.

Quote:

recoverer wrote on Oct 16^th, 2007 at 7:37pm:

The subject of Osho came up at another forum.

http://www.kundalini-support.com/forum/index.php/topic,1591.0.html

I laughed my butt off when i read this line from that article, "At least one of those twelve Buddhalicious Babes"

Buddhalicious..., i'm gonna start using that one! "Becky, you're vibing so Buddhaliciously right now" Cheesy

(i'm not trying to be negatively irreverent to the Buddha, i sometimes make fun of Yeshua and my respect for him is deeper and wider than the ocean).

Back to top

IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: A cup of tea
Reply #74 - Oct 20^th, 2007 at 10:22am

Osho has this to say about the Master:

The Master in Zen is not a master over others, but a master of himself --and this self-mastery is reflected in his every gesture and his every word. He is not a teacher with a doctrine to impart, nor a supernatural messenger with a direct line to God, but simply one who has become a living example of the highest potential that lies within each and every human being. In the eyes of the Master, a disciple finds his own truth reflected. In the silence of the Master's presence, the disciple can fall more easily into the silence of his own being. The community of seekers that arises around a Master becomes an energy field that supports each unique individual in finding his or her own inner light. Once that light is found, the disciple comes to understand that the outer Master was just a catalyst, a device to provoke the awakening of the inner.

love, blink

Back to top

IP Logged