orlando123 wrote on Oct 12th, 2007 at 2:46am:I see, well, I guess that's all possible. If the Bible accounts can be taken as reasonably factual (which I don;t think is necessarily the case) then a. the tomb was found empty and b. the body he appeared to the disciples in did not behave like an ordinary one - at one point he appeared inside a locked room, for example, and then, of course he just "ascended"and disappeared. Just some ponderings.. It is also worth mentioning - in these days when many Christians do not think in such literal terms - that the traditional doctine says Jesus is still in Heaven with the body that he ascended with and is coming back in it flying though the clouds at some point. I find this fairly unlikely. When you reaslise that in those days they probably thought of Heaven as a place that was literally "up" above the clouds somewhere, then that idea makes more sense.
Guess it depends on which parts of the Bible one is referring too. I think that much of the O.T. is deeply symbolic and allegorical, with some literal history mixed in, and Revelations of the N.T. is also deeply symbolic and allegorical--much like a dream.
But, the rest of the N.T. seems to depart from the long Jewish tradition and style of strong allegory, etc., and contains a lot more of the literal, historical, journalistic type approach, though i believe it is still multi-layered. Either way, i'm not even close to being an expert on either the O.T. or N.T.
Growing up, i was always much more attracted to Eastern teachings in a mental belief system kind of way (one of my first "spiritual" books was "3 pillars of Zen"). I wasn't particularly fond of religion in general (though saw truth in many or most), and specifically was rather turned off by Christian religions. Yet, i was fascinated with the Teacher Yeshua, his teachings, and that time period. I was much more drawn to him in a personal manner, than any other teacher, though paradoxically i was more drawn to the overall belief systems of some eastern branches as compared to modern Christian, dogmatic belief systems. But i realized at a young age, that there was plenty of dogma and skewed interpretation in many of the Eastern teachings too.
Quote: I don;t think we're talking about his ordinary body simply resuscitating. I think the catholic doctrine agrees with this (sort-of - as they don't think his physical body disappeared, but rather that it was transformed) and call his post resurrection body a "glorious"one, which is what the faithful are supposed to get after the final judgment - a kind of fusing of body and soul that looks like a normal body but has greater powers and is immortal.
I essentially agree. The physical body is made up of energy, the spiritual is also energy. The difference or distinction between the two is two fold. The physical is very, very slow vibrating in nature, and has both positive and negative charges. The spiritual is very fast vibrating in nature, and is primarily of a positive charge. Yeshua fused these, and thus transformed the physical body, and there must have been quite an energy reaction when this happened,
one of the possible explanations behind the image being formed on the burial shroud. Now he has both attributes of pure limitless Light, and yet physicality and form. The first born of a women to do this (in a collectively slow vibrating both smaller and larger cycle) and thus the ultimate, universal pattern in the Earth of spiritual development, or so Cayce's guidance energies say at least.
Quote: Another possibility some historians mention re Jesus is that his body was placed in a common grave, or even eaten by animals, in which case the post-mortem appearances would have been of a spiritual kind (however there are accounts these days of spirits appearing in solid form to people, so that could be what happened to the disciples, I guess).
I suppose that is possible, though the N.T. accounts stress that both the Jewish and Roman leaders involved, wanted to make sure that nothing happened to the body, and had guards there, etc. Before Yeshua had been crucified he had mentioned that he was going to die, and come back in 3 days time. No doubt this "leaked out" to the factions against him and his ways, and they wanted to make sure that none of his followers arranged any kind of event to make others think that this happened.
And oh yeah, btw, we are still left with the Shroud of Turin, one of the most, if not the most puzzling, controversial, scientifically analyzed, and hotly debated ancient artifacts. Others can think and believe what they want, but when many of the dots start connecting from fairly reliable sources...well being pragmatic and practical, i go where the dots lead me.
For example, why, if the shroud was created in a 'natural' manner by fluids of the body chemically reacting with the shroud fibers...(as quite a few scientists now theorize) then why with all the burials of humans there have been, in all of the archaeological finds, then why o'why do we not have another example of this in relation to a human body and their burial cloths? Oh, and yeah btw, certain historical accounts independent of the shroud artifact just happen to say and agree that a peculiar man who did many peculiar things in his life, and who was killed by crucifixion, resurrected his physical body and showed up to many people for awhile afterwards...
Orlando, besides the book i mentioned earlier, "Cosmic Journeys", have you ever read of Robert A. Monroe's own stuff, the books he actually wrote? In his last book, "Ultimate Journey" he relates a rather surprising and odd account that he had during one of his many consciousness explorations beyond C1. He asks his Higher self/Total self/Disk/I-there if he could meet the most mature (spiritually speaking) person living in his then space/time. He was told yes, it was possible but it might not be what he expected.
He ends up with his perception in a normal looking sort of room, with a desk, and sitting at the desk is a person. As soon as Bob's nonphysical awareness focuses on this person, this person becomes aware of Bob, and there is a brief span of time wherin Bob can feel this person's energy radiation. He said it was powerful, and like standing in warm spring Sun light, which contained every possible human emotion. And, it was perfectly balanced between masculine and feminine, one minute Bob was sure this person was a guy, the next moment, a woman. So Bob in his head called this person "He/She", and apparently He/She telepathically heard this thought, mentally chuckled, and said i've never had that name before.
Anyways, they start communicating telepathically, and Bob is allowed limited access to He/She's mind about their lifestyle, life, and some history. Bob exclaims surprise after 'hearing' that He/She is some 1800 years old or so, doesn't eat nor sleep, and hasn't "recycled" in that time period. Bob also picks up that this person constantly works many different jobs in C1 (physical) consciousness, and the reason simply given was that He/She likes people.
Now, the Cayce readings, and Yeshua himself in the N.T. states that Yeshua never did or would permanently leave the physical plane. "I will be with you until the end of time" type stuff.
While Monroe doesn't come right out and say who this person's identity is, there are almost like clues left in this account. One is that Monroe says that i sense you are occidental (western/near eastern) in origin (so no Tibetan Lama, Zen Monk, etc), and hints that others have already thought on this person's existence in the physical, because Bob says, "but nobody really believes you exist". In another of Bob's book, his 2nd one, one of his explorers seems to have channeled Christ, and in this channeling, this consciousness says not to look for me in the form of a man yet, the time hasn't yet come,
and in truth i never left. Maybe, the New Testament is literally right after all?
Take from all this what you will...
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