Conversation Board - discussion on the ultimate negative possibility

LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit Reply #30 - Oct 22^nd, 2007 at 12:09pm Sounds like that could be Chogyam Trungpa's very wonderful Shambhala: the Sacred Path of the Warrior you are reading.... yup!
Back to top	Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #31 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 1:50pm

Below is some information on Chogyam Trungpa. I didn't just google this, I heard about it in different places years ago. If this is what being an enlightened master is all about, then I don't want to be one. I know of many people who don't claim to be enlightened who live a much more balanced and loving life. I read Trungpa's cutting through spiritual materialism years ago. My memory of it isn't strong, but at the time it seemed like it was mixture of of Tibetan Buddhism and Krishnamurti. Therefore, he could've come up with words he came up with without being a master. Many false gurus have done the same thing. Many people in all walks of life show that you don't have to be a spiritual master in order to be a good public speaker. The below is from Wikipedia.

"Controversies
There exist a number of controversies surrounding Trungpa's behavior.

He was known for his drinking of alcohol.[11] Before his coming to America, Trungpa, while under the influence, drove a sports car into a joke shop in Dumfries, Scotland. He was left partially paralyzed and often in need of assistance to walk. On some occasions he was carried off-stage for being too drunk.[12] David Chadwick recounts:[13]

"Suzuki [Roshi] asked Trungpa to give a talk to the students in the zendo the next night. Trungpa walked in tipsy and sat on the edge of the altar platform with his feet dangling. But he delivered a crystal-clear talk, which some felt had a quality - like Suzuki's talks - of not only being about the dharma but being itself the dharma."

Trungpa's choice of Westerner Ösel Tendzin as his dharma heir was controversial as Tendzin would be the first Western Tibetan Buddhist lineage holder and Vajra Regent. This was exacerbated by Tendzin's own behavior, including his homosexuality and sexual activity with students while carrying HIV.[14]

An incident that became a cause célèbre among some poets and artists was the Halloween party at the Fall, 1975, Snowmass Colorado Seminary, a 3-month period of intensive meditation and study, which the poet W. S. Merwin had asked to attend. Trungpa granted the request even though Merwin had not gone through the usual preparatory practice. At that party, after many, including Trungpa himself, had taken off their clothes, Merwin was asked to join the event, but refused. On Trungpa's orders his Vajra Guard forced entry into the poet's locked and barricaded room; brought him and his girlfriend, Dana Naone, against their will, to the party; and eventually stripped them of all their clothes, onlookers ignoring Naone's pleas for help and for someone to call the police.[15] The next day Merwin and Naone agreed to remain at the Seminary for several more weeks to hear the Vajrayana teachings, with Trungpa's promise that "there would be no more incidents," and Merwin and Naone's assertion that "it would be with no guarantees of obedience, trust, or personal devotion to him."[16] They left immediately after the last talk. In a 1977 letter to members of a Naropa class investigating the incident, Merwin concluded,

"My feelings about Trungpa have been mixed from the start. Admiration, throughout, for his remarkable gifts; and reservations, which developed into profound misgivings, concerning some of his uses of them. I imagine, at least, that I've learned some things from him (though maybe not all of them were the things I was 'supposed' to learn) and some through him, and I'm grateful to him for those. I wouldn't encourage anyone to become a student of his. I wish him well."[17]

Poet Kenneth Rexroth (in Miles, 1989) offers the observation that "Many believe Chögyam Trungpa has unquestionably done more harm to Buddhism in the United States than any man living."[18]

Rick Fields, historian of Buddhism in America,[19] writes "You caused more trouble, and did more good, than anyone I'll ever know."[20]"

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 7:34pm by recoverer »

IP Logged

recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit Reply #32 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 2:08pm Here is a lengthy article on Trungpa. http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/trungpa.asp
Back to top	IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #33 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 4:28pm

I think in book reviews about authors, whoever they are, whatever field they might be in, I think that the perfection of the human passing here is difficult to see because there will always be duality, meaning two sides to any argument because thats the world we live in, with both the positive and negative being continually bombarded with.

it is hard to focus on the negative if one is searching for the positive, and what you seek, the mind will find. I have chosen to be one pointed. to focus on seeing the positive, on seeing the love in others, therefore I always find it sooner or later, the love that is hidden there is in every one of us. I am glad I can see it.
love in our souls is to see mankind's basic goodness, and to to cultivate basic goodness in ourselves also, then extend this outward.
We each can be our own guru, but it's nice to see books where people are actually trying to share themselves and help others to see their basic goodness.

I made up my mind to only make a positive comment, after all, there's enough of us who will supply the negative comment, I don't need to contribute to that.

where is your focus going to be? and is your intention to produce brotherhood among all people? It's all up to us. love, alysia

a secret. (good flick btw) the title of this thread is "the ultimate negative possibility" the ultimate negative possibility I think would be death. However, undertaking a study of what death is, it is no longer a negative! therefore we can be glad we continue, for surely, the next time around if we're blessed to receive another life time, we can do away with our false savior complex, should we be having one of those, and just accept that other people have enough intelligence to pick and choose their own reading material what is best for them and what is resonating for them through their own internal guidance, their higher selves.
Being positive oriented there is so much beauty in the world to focus in on, I haven't time to be doubting my fellow man(or woman) can make it home with me.
I expect to see you all when I get home, otherwise I will look for you.

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #34 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 4:49pm

Alysia:

Well, it sure seems like you have no problem doubting me. What I share about false gurus is based upon years of learning about what goes on. I've found that I don't have to allow others to take advantage of my trusting nature in order to be a loving person. Even if you consider things from the perspective of a false guru, it is quite loving that I point out their shortcomings. I know that if I lived my life as a false guru and misled many, that once I fessed up to what I did, I would hope that people who knew better would direct unsuspecting people away from the false teachings I left behind.

Being a loving and positive person doesn't mean you don't have the right to use your discrimination. With the World we live in, we have no choice but to use our discrimination. It is because people aren't willing to question, they end up following people like Adoph Hitler. If you think this a poor analogy, you don't realize how negative many gurus have been.

Is it actually loving and positive to add credibility to false sources of information that mislead others, without really knowing what those sources of information are all about? I believe it is irresponsible.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 4:28pm:

I think in book reviews about authors, whoever they are, whatever field they might be in, I think that the perfection of the human passing here is difficult to see because there will always be duality, meaning two sides to any argument because thats the world we live in, with both the positive and negative being continually bombarded with.

it is hard to focus on the negative if one is searching for the positive, and what you seek, the mind will find. I have chosen to be one pointed. to focus on seeing the positive, on seeing the love in others, therefore I always find it sooner or later, the love that is hidden there is in every one of us. I am glad I can see it.
love in our souls is to see mankind's basic goodness, and to to cultivate basic goodness in ourselves also, then extend this outward.
We each can be our own guru, but it's nice to see books where people are actually trying to share themselves and help others to see their basic goodness.

I made up my mind to only make a positive comment, after all, there's enough of us who will supply the negative comment, I don't need to contribute to that.

where is your focus going to be? and is your intention to produce brotherhood among all people? It's all up to us. love, alysia

a secret. (good flick btw) the title of this thread is "the ultimate negative possibility" the ultimate negative possibility I think would be death. However, undertaking a study of what death is, it is no longer a negative! therefore we can be glad we continue, for surely, the next time around if we're blessed to receive another life time, we can do away with our false savior complex, should we be having one of those, and just accept that other people have enough intelligence to pick and choose their own reading material what is best for them and what is resonating for them through their own internal guidance, their higher selves.
Being positive oriented there is so much beauty in the world to focus in on, I haven't time to be doubting my fellow man(or woman) can make it home with me.
I expect to see you all when I get home, otherwise I will look for you.

Back to top

IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #35 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 6:36pm

my point was that there are many among us who have been labled as a guru and are therefore prone to gossip and such opinions that are quite false, shortsighted and shows only their lack of understanding within themselves to say anything at all against anyone at all, it is simply gossip. u, I would assume be above gossiping.

I disagree with your internet findings discrediting anyone or any reading material and I disagree with you about this latest author. I find him quite enlightened and having the most profound synchronicity with him, as I do with anything I pick up these days.

why don't you do a retrieval or offer us an experience that you have had personally, that we can enjoy reading Albert? I have been waiting for you to tell us what you have experienced personally which is far beyond mere opinionizing.

once u told me why you picked the name Recoverer. I thought you were recovering from something. U are recovering from something! having been in a cult is what you are recovering from, and now everywhere you look you doubt that you will find the truth anywhere out there. you are still hurting and won't admit it.

some day, you will have to release that hurt you feel and forgive these others for misleading you, and yourself for being sucked into it, and for believing in them, and they let you down. I know it's hard, but you have to free yourself, nobody will free you but yourself.
you told me then that recoverer is another name for retriever. so I assumed you did retrievals and that you would tell us about one or two. now I think you've never done a retrieval but you should try. you should ask your guides to help you help someone else. forgiveness leads to PUL. when u retrieve some being you are forgiving them and that gets them unstuck.

lets all get unstuck from having to feel good about ourselves by bringing somebody else down.
whats the point?

just do it Albert. just forgive.

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

pratekya

Full Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 150
Los Angeles, CA
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #36 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 6:47pm

I admit I haven't read all of the responses at this point but thought the original post was a good one that I wanted to respond to. I haven't been on much lately, since what's his name (Harvard pastor guy) left.

the_seeker wrote on Sep 29^th, 2007 at 2:45am:

i used to think the ultimate negative possibility out of this thing called "life" is that it ceases upon breath. i have since been trumped. the ultimate negative possibility is actually that God not only exists, but is an evil taskmasker denying his creations free will and happiness on their own terms.

You do have the option of free will on your own terms. Its just that there are repercussions for actions. Why shouldn't a RAPIST have consequences for his actions in the afterlife? What it seems like you are asking for, is to be the God of your own experience, which in a sense is allowed but is not fun. Free will on one's own terms is ultimately a hellish experience, where you are surrounded by like minded spirits who want to exercise their free will on you in selfish ways as well. The heavenly option requires we do the will of God, which involves loving other people and ourselves. Yes that involves a choice where your freedom to say, rape others, has been limited.

Quote:

i was reading about the consequences of suicide on various sites like http://www.near-death.com/suicide.html and over and over i read "suicide solves nothing - the soul must reincarnate and deal with the same problems." if so, that's really messed up. why would God create souls/humans only to make them suffer if they don't want to suffer anymore? these accounts explain that when a person commits suicide, it creates negative karma by making their family suffer and feel guilty. umm..... but God doesn't have to suffer or feel guilty for all the terrible circumstances humans endure??? it seems God doesn't have to live by his own law!

God does suffer with victims, and people who feel suicidal because of circumstances or genetics. In effect, God did become one of us to suffer some of the worst evil that humanity would throw at him at that time (crucifixion and death through torture, rejection, etc.). Reincarnation in these cases would be another chance to live through difficult problems. God doesn't expect the same from everyone - 'to those who have been given more, more will be expected - those who have been given less, less will be expected. By the way, God doesn't expect people to be happy necessarily, and God's ultimate purpose isn't our temporary pleasure or pain (although he is concerned with this, its just virtue/character issues are more important).

Secondly there are passages in the bible that have to do with the afterlife as a type of rest for people who have worked hard on themselves to deal with issues of life. People who have committed suicide or tempted to would need a much more peaceful sort of heavenly experience then others. Jesus went on to promise that he was preparing a place just for us individually - meaning we will have a tailor made existence. Someone who is troubled by depression and needs more peace will have it.

Quote:

on that site, Angie Fenmore's in particular is a very very Christian-oriented NDE. at the end, God even shows her that the time of the Second Coming of Jesus is near!!!! i refuse to believe that. she describes God's voice "encompassed such ferocious anger that with one word it could destroy the universe." umm, why would God be mad at the very thing he created? it makes me wonder how much of the NDE experience is kind of "made up" to fit the beliefs of the experiencer. i would think it was all created in the brain if i didn't know better from people's experiences with ghosts (spirits).

God cares passionately about people, and loves them very much. Its because of this love that he can be so angry at destructive and hurtful decisions that people make. We do few actions (or say few words) that are isolated and independent - pretty much everything we do or say affects others for good or for bad. This has ripple effects on others as well.

Quote:

i thought God was supposed to give us free will, yet one person who committed suicide was told "you have to either live out the rest of your life or reincarnate and go through the same problems." that's free will???????? doesn't sound like free will to me. free will would be the soul being allowed to stay in heaven with everyone else if they wanted to. some suicide NDEr's have even experienced "hell" - demons in the hospital room. i'm starting to wonder if God is actually evil and we are just stuck in his sick twisted game. it kind of makes sense in a way - i mean if God was pure goodness, why would he even allow evil/terrible things to exist in the first place? in fact, why bother with humans in the first place, because they're so incredibly imperfect and have a great capacity for evil? i'm so confused.

Again, you have free will - in fact you can be terribly evil in your interactions or terribly loving. It doesn't mean there aren't consequences, however. One cannot be a rapist and be "allowed to stay in heaven with everyone else if they wanted to" without going through a whole lot of repentance / experiencing of what the victim went through.

Quote:

also, what about all the MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of people who commit "slow suicide" by drinking, not exercising or eating junk food? why the hell do they not get treated like s*it upon death? hell, it seems to me they're saying suiciders get treated worse than RAPISTS AND MURDERERS.

It is possible that God will call people into account for being destructive to their own bodies over a long period of time.

People who commit suicide are throwing away an outrageous opportunity to do good and evil in this life, even if they don't realize it at the time. Once that is thrown away, they have lost some of that freedom through choices they have made. No doubt each experience of suicide is treated differently, and its my personal belief that some people who commit suicide end up in heaven.

Quote:

oh yeah, and at the same time these experiences say "suicide solves nothing" etc. they say "suicides are not judged by God - they judge themselves." huh????? why would a soul make themselves suffer more, when they just proved they can't/don't want to handle suffering??? makes no sense.

Again, people have free will, but not freedom from consequences of their actions.

Would the world be better if rapists and torturers were simply dead when they died and didn't know what harm they had done to their victims and the domino effect the evil had on other people? Do we want to live in a universe where Hitler can live life fully and happily until his physical death and have no repercussions for the millions of his victims? Thats absurd in the existentialist sense of things, and makes a mockery of the suffering of people. God actually places a huge value on the suffering of people, and takes it far more seriously than your worldview does.

Quote:

ALSO i thought God was supposed to not generate fear, and supposedly fear is the most dangerous thing on earth and all bad blah blah blah, yet what does these experiences teach in spades? fear fear fear fear fear.

Think of a child who gets caught eating cookies. You are thinking of God in the sense of a mother who whacks the kid's hand afterwards. God is really more like a mother who warns the kid they will spoil their appetite for dinner, which is what happens to the kid. These are natural consequences of evil actions with the free will that God has given us. Would God be loving if he didn't warn us of terrible experiences that are possible in the afterlife?

Quote:

ALSO what about all those souls they talk about that never even come to Earth in the first place??? obviously THEY don't have to reincarnate and grow past what drove them to suicide because they never had to deal with anything negative in the first place, but us eternally damned humans do?? are we condemned or something? i thought a person could choose not to reincarnate, but that's not what these people heard in their NDE's.

I have no idea what happens to souls that don't incarnate on Earth. However, along with free will comes good and evil. We can be forgiven of our evil, but we need to be loving and forgiving towards the evil that others do toward us (assuming they ask for forgiveness), and we need to ask for forgiveness for ourselves. So there is a mechanism to deal with the evil that we create during our lifetimes. What you don't get, is life on your own terms. Thank God for that - the people you have hurt in your lifetime would be living in a unjust paradigm where you would be able to exalt in pleasure at their pain. There is justice in the universe; justice, and love.

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #37 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 6:48pm

Alysia:

If you aren't interested in what the hard found lessons of others have to say that is your choice. If you want to turn others onto false sources of information, that is also your choice.

If one person benefits from my extensive experience in these matters, then the time I've spent posting is well worth while. Even if nobody cares for what I have to say, at least ways I was responsible and caring enough to do so. One thing is certain: those who are misled and have read this thread, won't be able to say that nobody tried to warn them.

Regarding the other things you wrote; retrievels, the reason for "Recoverer," my supposed hurt, my experiences, I won't bother. This isn't about me. It's about not letting the numerous false gurus that exist get away with their nonsense.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 6:36pm:

my point was that there are many among us who have been labled as a guru and are therefore prone to gossip and such opinions that are quite false, shortsighted and shows only their lack of understanding within themselves to say anything at all against anyone at all, it is simply gossip. u, I would assume be above gossiping.

I disagree with your internet findings discrediting anyone or any reading material and I disagree with you about this latest author. I find him quite enlightened and having the most profound synchronicity with him, as I do with anything I pick up these days.

why don't you do a retrieval or offer us an experience that you have had personally, that we can enjoy reading Albert? I have been waiting for you to tell us what you have experienced personally which is far beyond mere opinionizing.

once u told me why you picked the name Recoverer. I thought you were recovering from something. U are recovering from something! having been in a cult is what you are recovering from, and now everywhere you look you doubt that you will find the truth anywhere out there. you are still hurting and won't admit it.

some day, you will have to release that hurt you feel and forgive these others for misleading you, and yourself for being sucked into it, and for believing in them, and they let you down. I know it's hard, but you have to free yourself, nobody will free you but yourself.
you told me then that recoverer is another name for retriever. so I assumed you did retrievals and that you would tell us about one or two. now I think you've never done a retrieval but you should try. you should ask your guides to help you help someone else. forgiveness leads to PUL. when u retrieve some being you are forgiving them and that gets them unstuck.

lets all get unstuck from having to feel good about ourselves by bringing somebody else down.
whats the point?

just do it Albert. just forgive.

Back to top

IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #38 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 12:27am

U said: Regarding the other things you wrote; retrievels, the reason for "Recoverer," my supposed hurt, my experiences, I won't bother. This isn't about me. It's about not letting the numerous false gurus that exist get away with their nonsense.
___

u also said this isn't about you. this forum is about you. and me, and all of us and our beliefs, our agendas, our intentions. I would ask you what you think of Bruce's books then. I have seen you have read Monroe and I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention "extensive experience." I suppose you might have been a guru follower. I have never been that so I don't understand.

In all these years of knowing you, I simply would like to see if you got anything out of Bruce's material or not. And if you did, then you know this place is about sharing our experiences, from the heart, without reprisal from negative inferences that in your opinion I, or another, are reading the wrong material.

So, my solution is to discuss subject matters which this board was founded upon whenever possible, as we do get off topic, which is human nature.

you have continually poo pood on various material mentioned here, effectively shutting down further open minded discussion on those topics, even a friend of mine will not come here anymore because of your rant.
I cannot read you anymore myself because of your judgment and attacks, although I am sure your anger, is not because of anything I said, or what I read. your anger is because you think you are not being respected.
the time I am taking to respond to you, knowing it will do no good, for you or me or anybody to waste my breath, you must know I am trying to get through to you this one last time. I am accepting it is out of my hands and will pray and meditate that you will release your deep hurt from what happened to you, and accept it was something your higher self chose to put you through, for whatever purpose you will find out someday.

it is wrong to expect this forum to be able to heal you as we are so far, just a discussion group and exploring our beliefs, hopefully without such censor from yourself, that we can speak freely, and without anger or expectations to get anything out of this board. its rather what you put into this board, is what you will extract, put anger into it, thats what comes back to you, put genuine love in it, you will get love back. nonetheless, you will be healed of your pain someday. as will we all.

and do try to cultivate a sense of humor, you are one serious guy.

life is too short to get all uptight Albert. stop and smell the flowers.
don't bother answering me dearlight, you have worn me out for the time being.

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #39 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 12:39pm

Alysia:

If you don't want to read this post, it is up to you.

Imagine a foreign country. A man speaks to young ladies and tells them he can help them find legitimate work in other parts of the World. Because of their excitement, they don't question this man and do what he tells them to do. They arrive at the other country and are forced into prostitution (This happens alot, the sort of World we live in). Would it be wrong for a person to try to warn such a lady about this man, for fear of being negative and unloving?

I know the false guru issue isn't the exact same thing, but if you read my previous posts and considered what I had to say, you would see there are very good reasons for doing what I do. As a public forum, you shouldn't make the mistake of believing that everybody has to conform to your idea of what loving behavior is.

I do what I do out of love, not out of anger. I'm not holding onto past hurt. There are many times I bite my tongue when people bring up the names of false gurus, but sometimes I feel like I have to do what I consider to be loving.

Regarding Bruce Moen, I'm a fan. If you've read my posts on other threads you'd see that I sometimes refer to what he has to say. His book "Voyage to Curiosity's Father" is one of my favorites.

Back to top

IP Logged

pulsar

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 163
Europe
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #40 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 1:14pm

Hey there,

so what's the deal?
If one abuses his position in order to oppress, abuse and misuse the ones who cling on his/her teachings, I guess this one has not realized what being a teacher is all about.
Everyone has a responsibility towards others, and this is shown through behaviour, that fits moral, ethical, and humane rules, made up as an agreement between humanbeings.
A teacher should be sort of a role model, in gaining knowledge, and behaviour.
Wisdom and gained knowledge are not there to indoctrinate, but both are there to share, to evaluate, and to widen them.

The teacher can be the wisest whatsoever, if using wisdom to justify forcing one ones will on others (meant in EVERY sense forcing is used, over-dogmatic rules, when going against them, then being punished hard,
bringing people into a state of being emotionally addicted to this "teacher", sexual, etc), it is just a crooked act of selfish behaviour, nothing adorable. The worst case of (cultic?!) brain washing.
These ones are not people to follow.

The way to prevent oneself from falsehood and misleading is balancing between what both of you said, being open minded, AND being careful in whom one can trust. This is easy said, but not easy done, I know.

Alysia, for the first time I do not quite get the point of your posts. We wrote so much pm's that figured out, how to prevent oneself from being cut off from the truth, prevent oneself from following anything blindfolded. If someone, even if his set of ideas shows effort in thinking, but on the other hand behaving against human values (the drinking thing is something I do not point out, that is a personal problem, that must not be the ingnition for inhumane behaviour), isn't it better to leave this someone behind? Even if he supports ones ideas (or the other way around), in order to step back to truth, letting this belief system crash? Bruce talks about crashing belief systems, sounds like the phoenix rising from the ashes, to leave behind mind traps (belief traps), letting them crash, in order to come back again with a new view on the world?
Being positive is a valuable thing, negativity something to overcome. But positivity and open mindness do not mean only to cling on them. May I use an example (you have one, at least stored in you pm box

), we may take a humanbeing that comes across only with negativity, does this actually mean, in order not to endanger ones positive world view, to ignore this person? I guess not (something we have also discussed, I never read, that it is up your alley to do so, don't take this as an insinuation). Sometimes such a person can be just blocked by negative hurdles, that can be crashed in.
But the other way around, when a person uses the mask of being a good teacher, teaching truth and positivity, but when looking in the mirror, seing that there is only a person that misuses this as a stalking horse for supporting cranky phantasies (and living them out by forcing them on others), it is apparently not the right situation for using open mindness, in order to defend a set of ideas. Ideas are good, but good behaviour should also be involved.
Forgive me for saying this, but I was shocked.

All written In My Humble Opinion.

regards,

pulsar

Back to top

it is determined.

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #41 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 1:36pm

Obviously I agree Pulsar. Not even if they are really good at coming up with all kinds of clever words.

pulsar wrote on Oct 24^th, 2007 at 1:14pm:

Hey there,

so what's the deal?
If one abuses his position in order to oppress, abuse and misuse the ones who cling on his/her teachings, I guess this one has not realized what being a teacher is all about.
Everyone has a responsibility towards others, and this is shown through behaviour, that fits moral, ethical, and humane rules, made up as an agreement between humanbeings.
A teacher should be sort of a role model, in gaining knowledge, and behaviour.
Wisdom and gained knowledge are not there to indoctrinate, but both are there to share, to evaluate, and to widen them.

The teacher can be the wisest whatsoever, if using wisdom to justify forcing one ones will on others (meant in EVERY sense forcing is used, over-dogmatic rules, when going against them, then being punished hard,
bringing people into a state of being emotionally addicted to this "teacher", sexual, etc), it is just a crooked act of selfish behaviour, nothing adorable. The worst case of (cultic?!) brain washing.
These ones are not people to follow.

regards,

pulsar

Back to top

IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #42 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 1:53pm

Has anyone heard of this phrase: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.....

I, personally, do not believe that a person must be forever judged and dragged through the mud because of previous errors. I, personally, do not believe that what a person has done "right" should be ignored because of previous errors.

I believe that is one of the basic premises of this site. That we are not to judge. Do we judge those we retrieve? No, we do not. We are guided, whether by identifiable guides, or by Spirit (as some like to call that which cannot be named).

We are guided.

It is important to trust in this guidance, our guidance from Spirit.

I think that is all that you are really trying to say, Recoverer.

Is it necessary to be responsible when assisting others? Of course.

But beauty will always be in the eye of the Beholder.

love, blink

Back to top

IP Logged

pulsar

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 163
Europe
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #43 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 2:15pm

Hey there,

@ blink

I have to agree on the point made by you, that a person should not be judged forever by his/her wrongdoings. BUT (there is a rub in it), what do you consider as wrongdoings, if they mean minor harm, it is something that can be forgiven. There should be a second chance. It is hard to forgive, if this behaviour totally ruined other persons, since it was against what humanity stands for.
Some things are avoidable (to pick up the bad news about the guru), and they are not in to see in the eye of the beholder, but as a whole. And this begins directly there, when the safety margin is overstepped (there is a voice inside everyones head that tells us "up to there, and not further").

Noone is free of judgement, it is a human feature, without judgement, we could not decide wether something was wrong or not.

No spiritual guidance would ever allow to hurt someone in a way, that turns him/her totally around.

Sometimes there are "snap" decisions, this is the "hot spot" where wrongdoing and the voice inside the head are screaming out loud. So there is a way to decide wether to do something or not.

There has to be a consequence for wrongdoings, only giving a second chance immediately lies not within our possiblities.

regards,

pulsar

Back to top

it is determined.

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: discussion on the ultimate negative possibilit
Reply #44 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 2:20pm

Blink:

I do not write the things I write about false gurus because I want to judge them. I wish them the best and believe a day will come where we will share the same light and love with each other for all of eternity.

Regarding the bath water, I believe that such gurus do have some good things to say. It is everything that takes place beyond the good things they have to say that concern me. I don't believe it is necessary for me to restate what these things are.

I will however, add something. Many of the members of the group I was involved with were wonderful people. They are people who could've made a difference in the World. Instead, everything they had to give, was given to the group. Partly because as far as the group's guru was concerned, the World is nothing but an illusion and one doesn't need to concern one's self about it.

When some of the elderly people left this group they didn't have any savings to live on. While with the group they figured they wouldn't have to worry about this, because either they'd become enlightened and it wouldn't matter, or the group would take care of them. Things didn't work out this way. When it came to the large amount of money the group collected, only the guru and a couple of people who were in cahoots with him, collected it. Unfortunately my group isn't a rare exception. There are many to varying degrees. Some are even much worse. Sad

Quote:

Has anyone heard of this phrase: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.....

I, personally, do not believe that a person must be forever judged and dragged through the mud because of previous errors. I, personally, do not believe that what a person has done "right" should be ignored because of previous errors.

I believe that is one of the basic premises of this site. That we are not to judge. Do we judge those we retrieve? No, we do not. We are guided, whether by identifiable guides, or by Spirit (as some like to call that which cannot be named).

We are guided.

It is important to trust in this guidance, our guidance from Spirit.

I think that is all that you are really trying to say, Recoverer.

Is it necessary to be responsible when assisting others? Of course.

But beauty will always be in the eye of the Beholder.

love, blink

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2007 at 8:01pm by recoverer »

IP Logged