Hi LaffingRain, just a personal thought to your question: I think we're constantly bombarded with images of the perfect family (especially on the media) so it sends us the message that, having children, per se, will bring us happiness. I think it's an advertising conspiracy - more children equals to more future consumers to boost the economy...

Maybe that's my rather cynical childfree side talking, but I find the negatives far outweigh the few positive advantages I can think of, in bringing forth another human being into the world that we live in today.  

dave_a_mbs wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2007 at 3:17pm:


Good grief, well I guess it could work that way maybe! I'm not qualified to refute it! Sometimes you'd think God would come up with a more aesthetic/elegant method of doing things. I mean sex itself is a surprising way to come up with of getting people to express intimacy and have kids, when you think about it.

  I've noticed that when i consistently, deeply meditate, i have very little of a sex drive, but since i don't keep up the consistent deep med. all the time, it usually starts to come back slowly but surely, and occasionally intensely (too many 'lees' there probably  ).

  Can't say that i have experienced a full orgasm via just meditation yet.  My wife has had a couple of those, one that i remember was during a spontaneous, so called OBE when she decided to not physically satisfy the urge before hand.

Thank you, AhSo!

It is ah so very much clearer to me now !  You brought up many points that I hadn't heard before or or had forgotten.

Much appreciation!

Bets 

Alysia and Ruth Mongomery said:
"heres what will happen in future: we have a gradual population decrease
worldwide, the planet returns to a former state of Eden like proportion,
souls find other habitable planets to live on, and spirits to experience
being physical will find bodies in sacks under trees, all fully grown,
functional, preserved bodies, and we slip into one of our choice and
stay a few hours or days and simply return it to it's sack when we're done,
ready for the next spirit to put on."

Sounds good to me !   

Love, Bets

Sounds promising, even to a crude male!!

Joking aside sex is still a difficult and complex subject. Old fashioned Victorian morality has no place if we go for a higher understanding of what's going down but sexual energies are still very powerful, can do a lot of harm and get us into a lot of trouble. There's also the disease transmission issue.

It's a big factor in relationships leading to heart links with others, pregnancy is still a common side effect and has rather significant implications, and it as we've discussed has a role to play in terms of managing kundalini or spiritual energies as well.

There's no room for absolute rules - what's right is heavily circumstance dependent I think.

Much of the harm I think flows from the way the egotistical and consequently moralistic society we are hopefully about to emerge from has turned it into a commodity. (most societal rules protect especially the interests of the powerful) Women (mostly) sell it to the highest bidder or leverage it for power and influence while covertly wanting it, men (mostly) in a sellers market often treat it and women as a commodity and do crazy things for 'it'.

Monogamy based on ego, narrow morality and jealousy means it often leads to anger, sanctions, heartbreak and loss. Women and children get used by those seeking to make money off it, or get drawn into dangerous lifestyles out of greed/need.

Other selfish interests set themselves up as the thought police and make an industry out of the demonisation of those that step outside of social mores and narrow morality. (that's not to say that some don't need protection from the sexual predators that abound in our society too)

Selfish interests use ever more provocative advertising, while society still jumps on those who become addicted, or who have 'abnormal' tendencies. The resulting stresses and obsessions lead to crime, unhappiness and unhealthy behaviours.

It's no wonder that most of us are emotionally and intellectually constipated on the issue.

I can't help thinking that the free love ideas of the 60s had a lot of merit if applied using wisdom and compassion. There I suppose lies the rub.

Nevertheless a freer, less selfish, less jealous and  more generous and spontaneous attitude would surely eliminate most of the heat, lust and downsides that surround the topic, and enable the beginning of a more relaxed and much easier and more recreational approach to the whole thing.

Monogamy and the nuclear family it's fairly clear is a pretty dysfunctional model around which to structure a society anyway. (never mind that it's become an article of faith in some quarters)

I can't help thinking that in common with most aspects of living that holding back/avoidance out of fear, selfish concerns and narrow morality is not the answer. That like in most things the only way to sanity is total immersion leading to satiation leading to the topic becoming one that has worn off all of the hype and delusional intensity that surrounds it  - one that has come to be handled based on practical compassion and wisdom only. What ever it is that turns out to work...

All of that I suppose is still a few generations away....

   Lol, the urge to merge is quite 'spiritual' at its core.  The urge to lust is animalistic, and completely physically based and that which evolved out of collective error (extreme concentration on separation and separative ways)...

  Sex is not an easy subject to understand...it is both relative and a case by case issue, with some underlying absolutes involved as well.   

   There is nothing innately wrong with monogamy or polygamy, in and of itself, it depends on the inner ideals, motivations, and spiritual development and awareness of the individual. 

  For some, polygamy is a way to indulge and over concentrate on the temporal physically based appetites.  For others, it is more about expressing a spiritual ideal that is based on connectedness, for some (or many) its a mixed bag of the two.   

  Yet, for a society, for humanity with its physical bodies, as a general trend, monogamy is a healthier way for society at its current stage.   When more people collectively awaken to and start living Oneness in the Earth and are more conscious and aware in general, then maybe conditions will change, and cross gender polygamy will be the better way for society as a whole.   

  I have very little sexual hang ups.   Yet, i would illustrate a point based on my own life and example.   There are both men and women whom i have met, who i've been energetically attracted to, and in a sense desired to 'merge' with.    Yet, i've never been physically, sexually, lustfully attracted to a man in a physical sense.    I would have no problem sleeping with a man with whom i love and am attracted to on other levels, and yet i don't simply because the physical lust attraction aspect is simply just not there naturally. 

   Why does not the urge to merge, go beyond the mental, emotional, and spiritual with men, if i see nothing wrong with physically expressing that?   

  Because true, spiritual merging and attraction is not of the bodily forces, and bodily forces do not have to partake of REAL love.  What is physical to begin with, what is spiritual to begin with?  What are the innate differences to begin with?   One is super slow vibrating, and thus limiting, and the other is fast vibrating, and thus freeing.   As it has been said of old, choose thou whom you will serve, for you cannot have two masters at once and be happy or feel complete.

  I've been involved a bit with, and have observed some communities (read communes and intentional communities), and thus have been exposed to various modes of sexuality.   I oft see polygamy and bisexuality as an 'excuse' to indulge the animalistic body appetites to the hearts (actually the body's) content, and yet in some or in many, there is an underlying 'spiritualness' to it as well at the same time, because it partakes of a UNIVERSAL application, and that which is universal approaches spiritual.   Some people have begun to realize that we are intimately connected to all others, in a universal sense, but this doesn't mean that we need to have physical sex with every other person in order for their to be a realization and livingness of this Oneness....   In fact, the physical need not (and often shouldn't) be involved.

  There are ever two influences within us, that which is of Spirit motivation, and that which is not and in a sense opposed to same...   The latter having been collective and individually concentrated on is what created the physical to begin with and yet we still continue to convince ourselves somehow that somehow the indulgence and concentration on same could bring us lasting happiness or contentment???? 

  But yeah, its relative.   I seriously need to eat something.