Hey everyone,

spiritual beings must be energetic beings. But what keeps the energy, of what this beings consist, inside them? From biology we know, that energy is important for e.g. transporting information from one cell to another, an electrical impulse sets acetycholin free,it passes the synapsis and is again connected with the receptors of the other cell, there it sets free another electrical impulse.
Our body is a closed system, the energy (as electrical impulse or biochemical reaction, both interact, like in the example I wrote down) therefor moves inside us.
So the energy needs a vehicle, where it can "work", the same with electrical components like an rlc circuit (if wanted, I explain how it works,
it needs devices where it can manifestate.

But how can beings exists, that are only energy? Are they something like a closed system, where the energy can manifestate?

Love,

pulsar

Simply put, we don't know.

The spirit realm is something completely different from the earth.

What we consider to be "nature's laws" probably don't exist in the spirit realm.

How can spiritual entities work? I'm afraid only God can answer that.

Hi Pulsar-
"Energy" is a construct that relates to the amount of changes in attribution that can be made. Thus, energy relates to information, entropy (Claude Shannon at Bell Labs did a nice paper on this). Information exists in potentiality as well as manifestation. So if we start by building the world in potential state space, rather than trying to make it work in matter, we can account for a lot of these things. Then, by observing that the same logic applies to abstractions as to manifestations, we can see the relationships of potential states and their logical limits as identical with the same relations of material states - in fact they are not discriminable.

This is why I take the perspective that "material reality" is an epiphenomenon, and that potential states are the fact - especially since we can have potential states in voidness. As one example, there is the potentiality to have potential states. Another potentiality is the potentiality for us to be here.

Given this perspective, spirits can work by simply creating - which amounts to identification with some states more than others, so that certain things become more probable ... and eventually, here we are.

d

Hey there,

thanks for your replies.

@ PhantasyMan

Thanks for your recommendations, I will definitively keep my eyes open on Dr. Yang and Adam. I liked your link concerning Consicousness and quantum physics a lot, as it provided reliable, proven evidence.
But it will take some time until I can respond on Dr. Yangs and Adams books, before I have to finish plato and Voyges into the Unknown, I try to be as fast as possible.

@Elite

There is obviously a lot that cannot be known about the spiritual realms, and I think that we will never be able to reveal every little detail about the world to come, but at least when it comes to appearances, there must be something like a connection between here and there. Otherwise they could not travel to our earth realm.
I can only make assumptions on this one, but if our soul has the ability to travel to the other side, there must be similarities, the first point to hang on then really is energy, as it never fades, but changes its states.
If we have something like a soul or a "light body", that came from over there, then there is a link, some call it silver chord, if I got it right, the connection from our "I/there" (spirit, "energetic" being) and the "I/here" in carne, nothing like retrivals or spiritual contacts would be possible without a connection.
If I had to imagine the afterlife, I think Platos approach is the most "realistic" (my pov), that this world is only an imperfect image of the world to come (or the world the soul came from and will go again after death).
So if it would be possible to find evidence for "heaven's gate", I think we would have crossed the last boundary in human mind and understanding.
The natural laws...yes they belong to the physical, but even a place like heaven must have laws, even if they are far away from that, we can imagine and understand while trying to explain it via rational approach.
It is after all the lacking evidence... I thought if there was a chance to crash the last boundary, we would have to start research there, where physics and religious beliefs cross.

@ spooky

Maybe there is something like an energetic field crossing the boundaries between our and the spiritual world, a connection, through which information from over there can "travel" to psychcs/ medial/sensitive people who have not lost their "third eye".

energeia: Aristotle statet > energeia is the "living activity" (different from  dynamis, the pure potential or possibility to "do sth."). It is an aspekt of the "shape" (eidos), that is also suggested as energetic, because it includes energiea, the "living activity". The other aspect seems to be the "entelechy", the "goal" (or for what a certain thing is meant to be, e.g. a tree or a flower blooms) a thing has included in itself.
So if our entelechy says "you are born to be ceased to exists after death" then it would be much like this.

The term "closed system"...yes it is of course a little bit too simple, but to imagine how the energy floats around in our body, their must be at least something like a "circuit" (like a circuit you need to run lamps) in which it can float, and manifests in the happenings it causes inside the body. If we take a closer look on our skin, there so much "holes" in it, energy has the ability to vanish from the body "caloric energy".
If it was really closed, it could live as an autonomic being, to have a "perpetuum mobile" as driving force, but this is not the case, if you do not "feed" the body regularly, it starves until breakdown.
So if there are beings on the other side, and we will also be like them after passing over, it must be at least possible to "access" those areas, my assumption is via energetic change, might be that the energy on the other side has more different aspects than our physical energy, or that we can produce via technical devices, but there must be at least a similar aspect, to make contacts or "phase shifting" after death possible.

@ dave

So it is very much like having different "planes", each one has is own amount of information included. Reminds me a lot of what I read on a link bets postet, that we live along an large amount of information, and everyone feeds the universe with new ones, so to say the universe as our "over-brain".
Potentials, that was because I relied in this case on energy, like in physics, the stone example again, if you pick it up, you stored "potential energy", if you let it go, it changes to "kinetic energy", also "caloric energy" through the friction that comes up while "hitting" the airs molecules.

So if it is possible to change like in our example, it makes sense to talk about building a world of "potential states". It was where I put all my hope, for us to have the possibility to find the key maybe via quantum physics, it opened new doors in science, why not in meta-science?.
You see where I stuck..not in focus 23 but even worse...

Epiphenomenon, means entities that have a cause, but no impact on sth. else, so the material reality is, according to our "real" (spiritual) reality, nothing more than a nuance, like Plato said.

@orlando

And there comes the problem, in saying "it is not really to know by us" (not even the smallest details like a "gate to heaven", or the entrances that "information from the other side" can use to manifest here. If we are not to understand any spiritual detail, that we would have to come to the conclusion that we are non of them, were never, and will never be.
It is hard to belief in something or take it for granted, if emotion/intuition/assumption is part of to reveal something, especially an existence after this life, so how could we or our soul-aspect ever exist in spirit realms, when not really being able to remind ourselves of anything that was before birth, if we rely on a system, that makes us being part of oversouls or a higher self. I often recitet Plato when it comes to afterlife principles, but even Plato says, the "eros", our craving for the higher realm he thought of were our soul has lived before incarnation, is an emotional aspect, longing for the "higher world", the perfect world, of which the earth realm is an imperfect copy.
I read the article briefly, and it corresponds with my outlook on paranormality. You will get a more detailed answer, but I have to think about it for a moment.

So let's see how far we can go

regards,

pulsar

Lynn McTaggart's book 'The Field' which I mentioned in the 'skeptics' thread has lots to say about how phenomena might occur based on the idea that it all involves manipulating the zero point energy field by quantum means. That memory probably resides there.

Lots in this book for those on the brain/spirit thread too, she mentions the scientist who removed large parts of the brains of rats and removed motor skills, but not memory. Lots of others who did the work underpinning her ideas by name too - it could be interesting to follow up on some of these.....

Have to agree R that there's energies in play in the spiritual realms (which it's suggested is essentially a play of energies) that mainstream science does not recognise. How else can it be possible for a person to raise their energy levels by say kundalini  meditation, or something like TMI's Vibe Flow?

These energies are very real, and can make an enormous difference to healing and how one feels when ill for example.

More realised people almost glow. Some very ordinary people can enter a room and raise the mood of all almost immediately...