Don:

I figured it would be better to respond to your Swedenborg thread questions to me here, since the subject is somewhat different.  I'm going to answer according to how I'm inspired, so I apologize if I don't answer your questions precisely.

First of all, as you know,  when asked what the most important commandment of all is, Jesus Christ answered to love thy lord thy God with all thy heart, all thy mind and all thy Soul. I believe this is crucial if one wants to completely evolve spiritually. This attitude isn't expressed a lot on this forum. One of the reasons is that "some" people have a hard time thinking of God as a being who oversees "everything" that takes place within him (not really "him"). They believe God is what results after all of us take part in the process of creation. I find this conclusion odd,  because even Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen speak of a creator from whence everything came.

I don't know why Robert and Bruce don't speak in terms of having love, devotion, reverence, humility, and grattitude towards the creator. If PUL and everything else owe their existence to God (I'm back to the name I prefer to use, it doesn't offend me), why not have positive feelings toward this divine source of all? And I say divine,  because when I've made contact with the presence of God, I felt like I was in contact with something that is incredibly beautiful, precious, sacred, holy and wonderful.

I felt like getting down on my knees. Not because this presence required submissiveness in a dictator like way. Rather because I made contact with something that showed that words such as grattitude, devotion, humility, faith, reverence, holy, divine, sacred and precious, do have a place in the dictionary.

Sometimes people have problems thinking in such a way.  Partly because they think in terms of "equality." I believe unconditional love can inspire one to think in terms of equatlity, but unfortunately, one's egoic motivations can confuse things. One's egoic nature doesn't want to have to admit there is something greater than "I."  Thank goodness there is. I am so grateful that someting so blessed does exist. I'm not alone in this feeling. Throughout the years many mystics, both Christian and non-Christian, have made contact with an awe inspiring power beyond human conceptions of what love and equality are. Many near death experiencers have experienced the same.

When a person opens up to loving their neighbor as his or her self, more light comes into his or her life. When a person opens up to having love for God, even more light comes into his or her life. Until one does so, one won't be able to obtain the final goal of oneness with God.  I don't say this in an Eastern philosophy a drop of water merging back with the ocean sense. I say this in the sense that our Souls were created on purpose, so eventually we obtain oneness with God and all other Souls with our uniqueness still intact, yet clearly seen for what it is.

You also asked why Bruce didn't try to make contact with Christ. Going by his books he didn't.  I can't say what his reasons are, so I'll speak in a general way. One can't determine what the truth of Christ is, by getting turned off by fundamentalism and leaving it at that. All one does when one does such a thing, is find that their are some fundamentalist principles that don't apply to Christ, despite what some people claim. If one really wants to know what Christ is about, one needs to make a sincere attempt to find out spiritually. If one doesn't do so, one won't find out what spiritual truth is all about.

Or in mathematical terms: ________(no search)  - fundamentalism = no answer; while spiritual search - fundamentalism = Christ is a key part of spiritual reality.

 

 

Hi Pulsar - you might try www.swedenborg.com for readings. There are a few books available on line. I went to Amazon to buy mine.

So, Don, if I understand correectly, your math gives us something like -
(lack of sincere questing) + (fundamentalist dogmatism) = (Chaos of no value)

while the alternative would be
(Sincere searching) + (openness to God's influence) = (Christ awareness)

Aside from the fact that I don't know how to put numbers to that, I fully agree with the statement. This is precisely the technique I use in therapy. I talk, God heals, I send the bill. Works great!

dave

Hey berserk and dave,

thank you for giving me some sources on Swedenborg, to be able to read more about his astonishing and convincing experiences.
I have had some experiences of my own, via methods I found on the board and google, but maybe I am too sceptical, because the more I think of them, the more I come to the conclusion that I made it up in my mind, as a result of subconscious cravings. I won't go that far to say that the methods are bad, but a lack of believing could be the reason for not making progress.
I had one appearance while being awake, thought it was my grandmother who had passed two months ago, the appearance looked similar, sort of a being of light.
I also read about appearances that were very similar to what I experienced (Extracts of "Hello from Heaven") I do not know why, maybe because I am sceptical, the explanation that it was part of grieving and saying last goodbyes (like a medicine dream) seemed to be more convincing.
New age religions, esotheric views, or modern views on spirituality (in spite of an interest in shamanism) are things I am not quite familiar with, more with the roots where they came from, eastern religions, mostly buddhism (what is in fact more of a philosophy than a religion). The most striking issue is the view on reincarnation, new agers see it in a too positive light,
according to buddhistic teachings, it is not wanted to incarnate a million times, but to leave this cycle via enlightenment. Nirvana itself means extinction, so it would mean to "lose" yourself", get over your ego, your cravings, but after all, it seems not like a type of consciousness floating around forever, more like a blissful sleep.
And concerning the afterlife.....i don't know....I have more of an agnostic attitude towards religious teachings/ the afterlife (I hear the words but believing "lacks") , even if the eastern ones seems to be familiar with what I think of the "right" religion.
It is more like regaining believe, as I surely said a thousand times, before I was more into atheism/ humanism, but the slight feeling of there must be something more never really vanished. I was just fed up with just having this feeling on my mind, so I thought it was time to figure it out.

Swedenborg (have to say that I read little about him) himself seems to be the one that had the most impressive oob, ap - experiences, so it was my desire to learn more about him, as I do not remeber much of what I read, because it was such a heavy impression.
The first time I really thought I found a proof for the afterlife, was on torahohr.com, about a woman, called Saada, who experienced dreams/ divine intervention, before she did so, she was not religious at all, more bound to material existence. She came to religion via her passed grandmother, who was the only one that really meant something to her.

yours sincerely,

pulsar

Dave:

Pretty much.


Albert



[quote author=dave_a_mbs link=1187555338/0#2 date=1188436470]

So, Don (Albert), if I understand correectly, your math gives us something like -
(lack of sincere questing) + (fundamentalist dogmatism) = (Chaos of no value)

while the alternative would be
(Sincere searching) + (openness to God's influence) = (Christ awareness)

For sure, recoverer, but who said that it will be done with the one  unverifiable appearance. I do not doubt, that many tries are required to make progress, I tried it with ap over and over again, and it stopped everytime at this point. Give it much more tries, for sure.

But on the other hand, it is also neccessary not to lose touch with your "I/here". Only ap,oob will get you nowhere. Before my feet do not stand on solid ground in "this life", I think there won't be too much genuine experiences, as I think if you are insecure "here", you will be insecure "there" too, as a matter of effects.
Even if the spiritual seems so much more convincing, I also want to be here and now, in the way I chose to.

regards,

pulsar