Greetings Vajra    ,

I think there's something on the guidelines that says we're supposed to stay away from political topics, but I can't find it right now. However the current leadership group is distorting or corrupting the concepts of afterlife, so maybe it's OK to go on--?

I just googled 'anti b sh bumper stickers' and got 1,370,000 sites! (not hits) with something to say one way or another on that topic. Perhaps if you saw the satire and sarcasm being leveled against this armeggedon movement and it's leaders, you'd feel better.  But  I don't know where such people are when it comes time to vote, or even if voting is accurately recorded anymore. Neither do I know what it will take to get political change here in the US.

. Biblically inspired fear of armeggedon is a biggie, a sure bet that many many voter/souls will be tuned in to it.  Those in power may be using fear to expand their political and financial base. Fear is always a great motivator, as we've discussed here many times.

Various groups are working on  m  p e a c h  me n tbut the consolidated power is very entrenched.

How long has it been since we have heard the words 'statesman' or 'diplomat' used as a positive mark of respect? None of those names you've mentionned have it.

Probably this thread belongs on a different board! 

Lotsaluck!Bets

I have often heard that some evangelical Christians have absolutely no problem with Armageddon, as you say, as it is an expected fore-runner to the second coming etc. It is worrying if that influences some politicians..

This sort of thing happens because some people interpret the Book of Revelations as futuristic rather than relating to events that occurred when the book was written.

When Jesus was asked what the most important commandments are he first answered love thy lord thy God with all thy heart, all thy mind and all thy Soul. The next most important commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

What does believing it is okay for billions of your fellow humans to go through what they supposedly have to go through if the rapture viewpoint is true, have to do with loving your neighbor as yourself? It has absolutely nothing to do with love. It is all about a self centered "I'm one of the special ones" approach. Do people actually believe they are going to be able to be happy in heaven, if they have the understanding that billions of Souls are suffering in hell for all of eternity? Suffering is suffering no matter who experiences it.

It is also dishonest to claim that one is loving God with all of one's heart, mind and Soul, if one judges God to be a being who is going to send billions of his children to hell for all of eternity, simply because they haven't come around to believing in a "particular way."

With respect to politicians, there are two authorities that I feel should be kept in mind.

In Utopia etc, Plato suggested that the people best suited to be leaders are those who tend to be least interested in the office, and that those who seek an office are generally least qualified to hold it.

The metaphysical equivalent is that young souls feel they can fix the world through conflict, fear and force, while older souls know that only through love, happiness and wisdom will true growth occur. I occasionally think of this when I'm reminded that people hate my country because of what it's doing and how. 

The other authority is Robin Williams who observed that politicians are like diapers. They ought to be changed frequently, and for the same reasons.


dave

I guess the problem with democracy is that it's built around the assumption of the need to put a balancing force in the hands of the people to control those in power. The unwanted side effect is that it as you guys say produces in large part a mediocrity representative of the lowest common denominator in a society.

Not to mention the fact that the will of the majority is one thing, and what those in power can get away with doing is another entirely.

The traditional Shambhala Buddhist teachings set out a rather beautiful perspective on how things could be if only both ourselves and our leaders could behave in a more realised (wiser, more loving and more compassionate and less self interested) manner. Shambhala: The sacred Path of the Warrior by Chogyam Trungpa looks at this question. Democracy for example becomes unnecessary if you have enlightened leadership that teaches and leads by example.

Until then it seems its diaper politics - that's a really good line Dave.  And pray like mad that humanity is going to make it.

It's maybe worth saying from this side of the pond that most probably see the current situation in the US as not representative of the views of the majority, and most certainly don't hold a blanket anti US point of view. The US is an amazing country that has delivered so much that is good too.

On the other hand they are (around here at least) equally a bit bemused as to how the current lot got such a grip on power. It's worrying how hard it is to rein in an Administration, just how strong a grip the vested interests have, and how inexorable the pressure from the public for ever increasing standards of living is everywhere.

Which gets us back to the original question. What is the enlightened response to all of this??? It goes without saying that most of us hold views so far out there that the sort of positions we hold are (rightly or wrongly) probably (barring miracles) unlikely to become mainstream any time soon. Not to mention that we probably don't have answers either.

Whether or not we do compulsion and direct action are not necessarily going to be productive - they tend to produce opposing actions.

Is the best we can hope to contribute simply to be influencers? Delivering what message? (what does PUL mean in practice?) And if so how?

Gee whiz, Seeker. I didn't know that my karma was THAT bad.

But - thinking about it, you are absolutely right. The best politicians that money can buy seem rarely to be focussed on the problems of the hoi polloi[/] - A lot of recent political discussion seems to echo Plato's problem of supervision,  placing "Watchers" in charge. Unfortunately those who watch the Watchers seems to be the guys that the Watchers watch.[i]

Reminds me a bit of the snake that eats its tail, except that it often feels more like my backside that's getting gnawed.

For sure we don't have a better situation re. our politicians Mac, and immigration and integration have not been well handled in Europe....