Yes Alysia, that seems typical for our earth here, it's complicated but at the same time so simple!

"Seeing it not there", as I found this in one Bruce's books (the black stuff story), is indeed something that relates here. One could call it also "See through it" or so. It is to stop the interaction with something, so not positive interaction (attachment, "I must have it!") nor negative interaction ("I have to push it away!") and leave it there discharged of emotions, neutral, at least it could mean this in the relation of forgiveness.

Yes, hehe, much distractions. I guess we all become sometimes overloaded of it and that's the point where we want to be monks in a desert monastery (we can simulate it in meditation with some luck and practice) .

Thanks for letting me be your friend Alysia!

Spooky

When it comes to "forgiveness" does it not all revolve around ego? To forgive is to release such and not to is to retain and be in effect of this ego.

I will now go into my objective analytical Vulcan persona to deal
with this. First, why do we have this emotion? It is my belief that
most of our emotions have their origin in evolution, meaning that
persons who have these emotions are more likely to survive. Thus
this tendency is transmitted to the next generation.

The evolutionary purpose of strong emotions is to arouse the
organism to action. Like, an attack on ones family produces
powerful primitive response that is built in. Those who have that
strong reaction are better able to protect their family, and thus,
the emotion will be transmitted genetically down through the family.

The ultimate resolution of the emotion is to destroy the enemy, and
that also accomplishes an evolutionary purpose. Thus the evil
person is destroyed, so that the tribe can live on with this menace
out of the way. In primitive societies this kind of thing happens.
The violent troublemaker is killed, so that he does not transmit his
genes, and over centuries the species becomes more civilized.

When civilization requires an arrest and trial, which might even
not result in the death of the perpetrator, then the immediate
primitive resolution is thwarted. Or maybe the perpetrator is not
caught, again thwarting the "natural" resolution.

One story I read was about a primitive tribe. A man kidnapped an 8
year old girl, a member of the tribe, and sold her as a slave in a
distant location, where she later died. Finally the tribe caught
him, brought him back and tied him to a tree. They then cut pieces
of meat out of his stomach while he screamed in pain, and cooked
them and ate them, while he watched. This performed therapy for the
tribe. I am not suggesting this as modern therapy. Nevertheless,
justice was performed, he got what he deserved, and closure was
given. The evolutionary function was also performed, because the
troublemaker was eliminated from posterity. And also, he went to
his next life with traumatic memories of the penalty of wrongdoing,
stored memories useful in his next life.

When it does not happen this way, the primitive emotion goes
unfulfilled, and eats at the survivors of the crime, from then on,
maybe causing physical symptoms. Forgiveness then is an artificial
device to reduce the intensity of the emotion. It says, "I will no
longer continue with this emotion". Forgiveness does not in this
case represent a higher justice. It represents the failure of
justice, where justice can not be obtained. Forgiveness is not the
same thing as justice, it is something else.

If I were faced with this, instead of forgiveness which is not
sincere, I would say to myself, either I must find the perpetrator,
or I must dismiss this emotion, if I can't find him. I would not
give a phoney undeserved forgiveness. I would retain the idea that
justice should be performed. Bin Laden should be found and stoned
to death. And if he is, the important thing is done. The other
terrorists will know what will happen to them.

How would I dismiss the emotion? Is that impossible? We Vulcans can
do that. I have learned to do that when it is necessary. Whenever a
tool is missing, I get strong emotions, because they have been
stolen in the past. But I dismiss this emotion, because the odds
are 99 % that I have misplaced the tool. Sure enough, later it
turns up. An emotional response would have been wasted. But when it
does not turn up, like it is stolen, the anger must be diverted
into efforts to keep the tools better protected. That is the proper
expression of this emotion.

With Bin Laden, I just keep cool. I don't allow anger to eat at me.
But I retain the anger, as a quiet mental resolution, that justice
will some day be done. Thus the anger is made  manageable, and does
not interfere with anything. But the purpose of this anger will
still be fulfilled, with his elimination. Because I know that this
is the purpose of this anger.

I think excessive forgiveness is weakness. The society that can not
punish crime, can not keep order.

I don't expect others to dismiss emotions the way that I can. It is
a learned art. There are various emotions that we Vulcans learn to
handle, and it is a very useful tool. I sometimes ask, do I want
this emotion, or not? What good will it do me? I consider it my
privilege to override some emotions. But not without due
examination of the question of the essential validity of the
emotion. Like if I am the victim of an injustice that needs
correction, I will not dismiss the emotions that warn me of this.
But I will dismiss emotions caused by, for instance, an insulting
remark made by a person not qualified to make that remark, when it
need not be taken seriously. And I will dismiss the garbage of one
lifetime, and not take it with me to the next.