Berserk2 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 7:49pm:


This makes sense, Don, and also makes sense that it would normally be of short duration. Perhaps part of this convalescence is to be placed in sitations which are healing to our souls, such as in activities we always loved. The convalescence center may simply be a place for some to "sleep" as they wish, and others to have "experiences" created for them by interested and caring guides/helpers/other spirits.

In fact, if this scenario were different and we were speaking of a war scene in which all were killed, including the perpetrator....but, I take away that word....the perpetrator in this instance sees himself/herself as a soldier.....

Perhaps all might end up in this convalescence center together, but in different areas of perception there.

I have seen, in meditation, a place like this, being used for good purposes.

As far as ghosts that go bump in the night because they are so tied to the earth plane...that is surely a possibility, but I would think it a much less likely one. So many accounts of near death experiences show that souls in such dire circumstances often find themselves away from their bodies almost immediately, and with great suddenness, and find themselves irresistably attracted to the light they see.

Therefore, if they are ready, of course they will have an accounting of their lives, there in the Light, in whatever manner is right for them. If they are just not ready yet, perhaps a place to "rest" for a while is necessary.

love, blink

Blink said:

Recoverer,

Excellent points you make, in my opinion.  Truth spoken here.

"Thank you Blink."

DocM wrote on Jul 26^th, 2007 at 3:24pm:



hi Doc  recently I wrote an article and felt I had to put it up on myspace, of similar violent circumstance involving a young college boy as the perpetrator against his parent. I observed in my mind, the slain father's body had risen, his heart still pumping blood, but his spirit had vacated the premises, as that can be the only explanation for after having received enough hatchet blows to the head, you get up and start putting the dishes away, and then he finally died, the body died.

I have observed a few stories here and there of early departure of a spirit, while the body still lives robotic like status. so I am assuming we all have guides, and that the girls inner, essence is allowed to blink out during too much violence.

it comforts my sense of outrage to think so anyway.

in regards to this same context I think of Cami, an extremely lucid retrieval, she was 16 and I as retriever could only sense the tragic circumstances, and since I wasn't there to dig into her mind, but only to gain her attention, I didn't press for details, but I sensed rape and murder were a part of that.

after death she was disposed to areas in the astral, the counterparts of happier conditions, a school with peers. the pleasure she had known there, she tried to return to. a brief question and answer session with her I can describe, it may help you to reduce your level of outrage:

beginnings: I observe a depressed teen slink in and take a seat within the gymnasium rec room.
I briefly consider my role as mother spirit and take a form throwing myself at her feet asking for attention.
she smiles and reaches to pet me on the head coming up briefly from her troubles and confusion. she remembers nothing that is too difficult to remember. a shock. there is a blinking out of memories, so that she will remember only when she is prepared to deal with it.

what is you name? I ask. Cami she says.
How do u spell that I ask.
She tells me.
How old are you? I ask
16 she says.
where is your family I ask.
then I tell her my family is small, is hers also small?
I have an aunt she says, brightening to recall the love she has for her aunt.
where is your aunt? I ask
A cloud comes over her face as confusion again arises. I see her mind, I see a boyfriend of the aunt is involved in some tragedy.
Spirit tell me back off, you are not a psychoanalyst right at this time.
we are entering dangerous territory and guides assistance is immediately needed to take Cami with them, as does happen, there were 5 or 6 of her peers entered at just the right time, before I could probe any deeper.

since I had her attention, it was easy to lead her to the guides whom she could not see at first, I just shifted my gaze to them and she followed my attention and they received her into their care.

The PUL had made us one, so that the shift could occur and the retrieval be accomplished.

______

I'm not going to mention forgiveness as the others have mentioned the importance of it. forgiveness clears the way for PUL though. she was not at a place to even know of this tool yet.  theres one other story Alan Watts mentions of two men who ran each other through, exiting the body at the same time, floating upwards in their spirit forms, they continued fighting until they both burst out laughing as they finally noticed after much further "running thru" nobody was dropping.

I imagine they then made their way to their appropriate classroom and an alternative solution perhaps to settling one's differences other than the sword.

all in all, it is we, who are left, that suffer the most when these tragedies occur. I studied the senselessness of the holocaust in this vein for many years and concluded there are sacrificial spirits who have that in their intentions for incarnating, as I believe the jews did; it was for us to wake up then as a whole humanity, so we could get past the way that we have become a warring planet which must change each one in their heart to decide, no, I won't kill anymore, nor harm life.
and its true as a healer, what you are, you have to do your part to focus on mending the others and eventually we all have to mend each other.

Hi Its good to forgive but not easy to actually do it,as i have forgiven people all through my life and sometimes ive regretted it as some of them when i forgave them for something ,just turned around and threw it back at me,so ive regreetted it sometimes,so it is hard sometimes to do the right thing like forgive,especially people that take a  life away from loving families

This is what ZODIAC said through this medium,as he was around the same time as Jesus and sometimes walked with him.And this is what he says about the part of the lords prayer  Forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive them,that tresspass against us,this is what he says.

You are exhorted for your own sakes to tear out of your hearts and mind the bitterness of unforgiveness.As much is expected of the child as is forthcoming from the Father.If you pray with sincerity to be able to forgive those who have injured you,then on making the crossing through the veil you will see that the hurt that seemed to remain was only imagination.

"Forgive us our tresspasses"again and again we have to make this petition to the Father.It should not be necessary for me to tell you that His loving Heart never would or could shut us out.Over and over again these spiritual battles go on in the heart and mind of man.The higher side cries out to be free from the lesser and yet that lesser at times appears to be the stronger and anguish follows as a natural result.

In spite of the clamour of the physical mind God hears the cry of the spirit within and never ceases to help and encourage it to get free.Do not be disheartened by these battles.They seem so terribly destructive to you as if in a few short hours they had the power to pull out the bricks of the foundation of your faith so that the whole world would topple to the ground.This is the trial of those who wish to do better.To those who do not wish to do better,the tragedy does not seem so intense.Do try and read between the lines and strive more earnestly to gather in some faint conception of the love and compassion of your Father.

Love and God bless   Love Juditha

Hi there,
I would like to have some clarity about "forgiveness". What would you say would be the healthiest meaning?

To "let go"? Like "forget it", I don't care anymore, don't think about those sad things.

To, so to say, actively forgive, actually to have the specific deed in mind and, like to abate debts, abate the debt of this deed.

Or, something in the middle. I saw on tv a lady who was in a German concentration camp, and lost her relatives. She said (from my memory), "Forget? No. That's impossible. But forgive...it's another thing. If I wouldn't, I would be full of hate, I would get ill about it. So I forgive."
As you can see, she is very aware of her own health and thinks pragmatic. But it does not explain what forgiveness actually is, how you do it. It surely has something of "let go", "release", "discharge". Is there maybe a sort of visualization which could explain it to me?

Spooky

Dave insightful as uaual

Quote:


The story of the woman clarifies while also rasing questions...

Since I have struggled with sowm trauma and not been too good with the forgiveness, I reallt found this interesting.

Because part of the problem is not understanding how I attracted the trauma into my life. Perhaps when we start delving into understanding "we create our own reality" we have to learn to go deeper than we know we can...to a deeper level than we know exists.  You have to know all the layers to realit before you can understand how you create the events you see in C1. It is a challenge to connect all the dots when they are on multidimensional planes.

It is a little too easy to say maybe someone did something in a past life that brought this about, but when you can tie a current event into something someone recalls (even if it is under special conditions) then it seems so much more valid an argument. I assume there have been other cases where people could go the forgiveness route and achieve loss of pain from doing so? I assume you've witnessed that. Yes? No?

Alot of my not letting go early on was because I just couldn't get it as to why this came into my life. (Still don't but Time helps you let go some). I suppose a Saint would just let it go.

SO many people are now hearing about this story and expressing outrage...I wonder what that looks like from the other side?

Forgiveness...intellectually, I think the letting go is ultimately realizing that we create the illusion. But Spooky, I don't know how to live that.

Hi Spooky-
My personal expression of forgiveness is not an "I don;t care" attitude, nor is it "that's OK" or "You can do it again". It's a case in which we do not need to burden ourselves seeking vengeance over some kind of damage done to us by others. In that way, it is a retreat from the scene that ends the potentiality for further interaction. That doesn't mean that we need to go back and stick our hand in the mouth of a dog because we forgave it for biting us last time we did that. I simply means that we accept it to be the nature of the dog to bite, just as the nature of a snake is the slide on its belly, and the nature of egocentric and needy people to exploit others - they know no better. Well, God help them, and let me out of there.

Viewed in reverse, as long as we hold a grudge we are still giving our power to others. We allow them to determine our lives. To forgive and move on gets rid of that. It does nothing for them, but it sets us free. The cycle thus is changed from the toxic loop to a healing pattern.

(1) I hurt. (2) I investigate and discover how the problem came to pass. (Focus is on facts, not the cast of characters.) (3) I evaluate and perform damage control. (4) I take steps to prevent the issue from happening again. (For example, I decide not to invade small countries without first coming up with an exit strategy.) (5) I put it behind me as a fact of history, and go on with life.

This is the escape from the toxic loop.

In my practice I offer a slight modification, which is to suggest that "You can forgive him and just go on, or you can forgive him and send him off to be 'repaired as needed' by God. Which do you prefer?" Most people take the latter choice, which allows them to feel vindicated, yet no longer involved.  I also make it a point, when it's a person in a harmful relationship, to point out that to forgive their SO doesn't mean to stay in harm's way. If it hurts to do something, or to go somewhere, then don;t do it and don;t go there.

Hope this helps-
dave