the afterlife experiments seems to prove that (some) psychics are real.  so why doesn't the scientific community accept such proof?  because of their bias, of course.  it's the same reason people wouldn't believe that the earth revolved around the sun, or that the earth was round.

There are several methodological reasons that science has problems withmetaphysics.

First, we cannot estimate the probability of encountering a spirit or performing a spiritual activity by chance alone. And we can't even tell whether reports of experiences are actually valid when reported.

Further, most materialists have totally closed minds that are in perpetual denial - For example, let's say that you just ordered your army to attack some civilizn group, and rape and pillage until they all were dead. (Darfur as an example.) I seriously doubt that you would be able to accept the implications of a shared reality by which your world and theirs is coextensive, or that you could imagine that a "higher power" might pass judgement on you. Denial feels better - at least while you're alive.

A last factor is that the experimenters set things up so that there is no possibility of "leakage of information" into the experimental situation, and they then declare that the experimental setting is free of extraneous inputs. Since psychic phenomena seem to come and go as extraneous inputs super posed on the trivia of everyday circumstances, this amounts to creation of a region free of psychic phenomena - that is experimental sterilization also sterilizes away the spontaneous psychic stuff, and keeps it away by a collective act of will by the experimenters.

And, there are more reasons - mostly having to do with the inability to do more than get reports in a limited number of instances, and those only in an unreliable manner, about uncontrollable topics, and wth a lot of "noise" thrown in. (I estimate that most past life regression reports are half noise and half valid, since they employ a regenerative loop set up between sensations and imagination, and in regenerative systems, half the throughput can be shown to be noise.)

What ultimately is convincing is when people abandon the "regular science approach" and learn meditation sufficiently that they go into their own psyches and have their own experiences. And those, because they are unique to each individual, can't be expressed usefully, as we lack words to communicate such experiences. So we wind up with those whose meditations have led to an awakening, yet they can't explain more than the superficial details. As an example, Don tells of his "night in heaven", which convinced him, but which can't be expressed as numbers or probabilities.

I recall a Zen koan.

"If you have a stick I shall give it to you.
If you do not have a stick I shall take it away."

dave

So we are all stuck with personal proofs and un-natural science.

It figures.   

d

Maybe it's just that it's getting late and I'm feeling kinky, but your description somehow makes me think of a variety of co-educational Tantric yoga positions, the nature of which I dare not describe.   

Actually, samadhi is essentially just that - a gathering of all of us into a single event that leaves various amounts of reality in proportion to the amount of attachments and contingencies we cling to. It just doesn't feel like the rest of the world is present in person as compared to presence in abstract. - More stuff that doesn't translate into words.

And my other question is how the snake that eats its tail can gain weight.

dave

ElieteNYC,

EliteNYC wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 12:00am:


It turns out that experiments in this area with the tightest protocols and methods have already proven that we can't replicate results without including as varibles the beliefs of those running and participating in these kind of experiments.  The link below to one of the articles on this website describes an experiement that has been run more than once in an attempt to prove or disprove the existence of a nonphysical means of communication between people.  The experiment failed each time and has become known as an experiment that demonstrates the effect of the experimenter's beliefs upon these kind of experiments.

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/relg-sci.html

To use the scientific method properly and be able to replicate our results we must know and understand the effects of ALL the variables in the experiment.  In the above cited experiment the only way the experimenters could get reproducible results was to take into account the effect of the experimenter's beliefs upon the experiment.

So, I'll bet if we give scientists the task of running experiments to prove or disprove the existence of Spirit the results will depend upon the beliefs of the scientists and participants in the experiment.  But, you probably won't see those beliefs listed among the controlled variables for the experiment, and they probably won't be included in the analysis of results.  Non-believing scientists will replicate the results of other non-believing scientists "proving" that Spirit does not exist.  Believing scientists will get the opposite result "proving" Spirit does exist.  And people like me will be left wondering how scientists can be so stupid as to not try to design experiments to understand how these conflicting results are possible.  

Thankfully not all scientists are that stupid, as the experiment in the article demonstrates.

Bruce

I spoke to a man I work with the other day. He believes that he is certain that there is no such thing as the World of spirit. He believes that he takes a scientific approach. The funny thing is, I told him about out of body experiences where I was able to confirm what I experienced non-physically through physical evidence, and he wouldn't accept my results as evidence. How can a person be open to proof when they won't accept the proof you provide?

Bruce said: the planet we live on would still be flat if it hadn't been for someone who was willing risk sailing off the edge into the Abyss to discover the Truth.  And then, based on the reports of these few brave souls, other folks had the courage to sail toward the edge of the Earth to see for themselves.
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Bruce said;
Many who visit this site have sailed beyond the edge of physical reality to search for the Truth of our afterlife's existence through there own direct experience.  And many of them now know the Truth.  I knew that was the most I could hope for when this website was first put up in 1996.  I am delighted and happy to see that so many brave souls continue to post their reports and in doing so encourage others to go sailing.
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