Hi all

Wow Bets, same thing happened to me last week. I'm used to my ID (my interal voice) being challenging, or offering complementary information on what I'm thinking, to add to my train of thought, or to show me some other tracks, and occassionally to derail!

Just recently, around the same time as the other posts here, ID has been telling my Ego, that it Loves me, and how Cool I am, in a very direct, and strong way. Enough so, that I thought it quite unusual. In my dreams, I'm having old friends & even enemies lavish love on me, which I'm happy to soak up. I feel this is more than just self acceptance & life acceptance(although that's part of it), I do think my guides seem to be saying that they're finally pleased at the stage I've reached.

Like Dave, I've seen grids in meditation. I saw them when I decided to get in Kaballa mode and meditate on a glyph from the bible. It is the Hebrew 'He' symbol which is from Psalm 119:33-40. This relates to asking God to guide my path ever deeper into the heart of his "Precepts". What I saw was I was in a desert and I was on the apex of a finger like spire. (the only one around). Above me was a sky of rectangle grids (I've read that the skins between levels have more & more complex geometry on them as you go higher...also it ties in nicely with 'Brane Theory, which is how our universal dimensions are like slices of bread (or Membranes) in a loaf.) Anyways, one of these rectangles came down from the sky and over me & the Spire & then back up to the sky. I then percieved, pillowy, amorphous energy behind the skin.

I must say that in my day to day life I regularly percieve the One formless energy under the surface of Maya. Especially if I've had a beer and am sitting in nature!

Check out the visionary art of Alex Grey if you want to see Grid Lines within our biology & nature. Check out the amazing!!!!!!!! last 45secs of the Parabola video by Tool. You can find it on You Tube here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvXASWDMtBM . Alex Gray directed the last bit, and it is a brilliant look into a full blown DMT trip.

I thought I should mention that about 10 years ago, I used to wake up all the time while I was being operated on. I was literally on a table with tall 'entities' doing things to me, and I could still see a weird circular energy 'machine' above me for a while after waking up. I found it a bit spooky at the time, and it has since stopped. Maybe my consciousness no longer needs to be 'fertilized'.   and the Helpers(?) have gone off to someone else.

Years later I was pulled out of body by Jesus who tuned up my head chakra (not the real JC, just something the helpers picked out of brain, a'la the end scene of Contact). The helpers took me out, I played around in an astral playpen, and then broke through to a deeper level by going thru a lite, and then I was in space (still a construct - you can always go deeper into the Mystery) and I was looking down on the different astral dreams/belief systems, which looks like cells in a honeycomb wall. Anyways, the helpers (6 really cool human types) brought me back thru a dream and into my body.

So, back to the thread, Dave said

"The entire room had taken on a sense of electrical fields, and above me and curving over me was a "sheet" of energy through which I could not pass - it moved along with me, like a layer of time that was stuck on the moment of experience"

This relates to the theory on the 11 Dimensions I've been reading about. Apparently all 11 dimensions are around us here but we are kept locked in our 3rd dimension by Strings (matter building blocks way smaller than the atom) which form arcs on top of our particular Membrane. Like Jelly on Toast. It would make sense that the layer of time you saw was indeed stuck to our dimension because, according to the boffins, all time passes thru our 3rd dimesion, while infinity passes thru the 9th. Sounds like you have energetically seen, a reality, only recently proven by mathematics. Check this video out here if you want to go into it  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u4CFTZtcXE

You Legend Dave!

Cheers all, my brain now hurts, and I'm off to bed.
Cris

Hi Again Cris-
Looked up the YouTube videos you cited - a very good expositions of basic string-brane ideas. Excellent video quickie.

Everyone seems to be working in this same general space in various ways -  For example, my theoretical work views reality as a point set topology - it was easier math, nobody else was working there, and I found at least one area in which it could be empirically tested, so I got a dissertation out of it. Some of these models actually "look like reality" in many ways. But, that doesn't mean that these descriptions equal the underlying reality. Think "high tech BST".

The notion of a separation in time, expanding along a vector that expresses process, is a forced interpretation that views any interval between states as  spatial. Relativity uses similar concepts to map intervals in terms of areas of space x time. This is an outgrowth of Special Relativity, which arose from  Minkowski's ideas, among others, and was presaged by a hundred years by J W Dunne's book "An Experiment With Time", in which the different  intervals separating awareness of future events have been assigned spatial and temporal values, some of which seem to extend into the relative future. (It's worth reading, by the way.)

I tend to resist this interpretation because it doesn't "feel" right to me.

Lets build a universe, starting with points in relationships that have properties like atoms or pebbles, and which expand by forming more relationships. Then we get a mesh of expanding relationships, each observed point being selected out of a number of possible points, all of which would be separated by changed definitions (say from red color to green color) along vectors called "dimensions".  This is the basic model in the video clip =  all changes lie along dimensions. But not all dimensions are spatial.

The same would be true if we started with a collection of ideas that merged and interacted as we thought about them, forming a mesh of new ideas related to one another - giving us a mesh of "dimensions" connecting any two ideas.  - This gives a collection of ideas defined by crisscrossed relationships, which could (at least in principle) be mapped on paper as a multiply dimensioned collection of points, in which dimensions branch as you change your mind. But that does not necessarily mean that it has spatial significance as a dimensional construct. - To say that your mind can be modeled in a physical space of umpteen dimensions is thus true, but misleading.

I'm not going to deny the value of string and membrane approaches in modeling, but I suggest that they need to be viewed with great care, because, like all abstract models, there is great danger of mistaking a logical argument, or some hidden assumption, for a factual description. (Of course my own work in point set topological cosmology is subject to the same criticism!)

However, experiences that several people have shared, such as the sensation of naturally arising grids seems to bring some new information that is independent of personal viewpoint. Another well known phenomenon is the "psychedelic flicker" that is reported by almost 100% of drug users, and many of us as we go into meditation. This gives a view of reality as a series of event frames, each of which caries the entire experience of the moment. Each is discrete.  It's rather like watching individual frames of a 3D movie. This might be similar to "grids" or it might be a different effect.

The experience of grids has thus far been reported as (1) a cover that is on top of external surfaces, something with which I am familiar, as (2) the interior of a sheet of something, I felt it to be a charged field that was "sticky" and could not be penetrated, and that more or less enveloped me, Cris mentioned a sheet that expanded and descended to cover him; (3) Bets mentions a book that took on a gridded appearance and vibrated; (4) I always see the grid elements as yellow-orange and red, but orange fades off into a sort of green-gold, such as when I watch my wife's aura as she sleeps, and Recoverer gives green as being the color of human grids; (5) Bets associates grids with the inner channels of stuff that get rearranged by psychic healers (as with chakras and nadis?) and with Carolyn Myss' ideas and massage. (6) Recoverer reports that green space and grid carried information about the space behind him. (Personally, I usually go into a green world in meditation - but I get 360 degree vision without grids, and only with effort.)

I think that the grid phenomenon is a valid common factor of experience here, but it needs more data. My next question is whether the grid experience arises from us, the observers, or is it due to the space that we observe, and in a manner independent of us. I would be extremely interested in working with anyone who wants to pursue this topic.

dave

Hey Dave.

Interesting. Thought I'd chuck in another experiential confirmation of (a then in the future) 'Brane Theory.
Dr John Lilly (dolphin & ketamine researcher, consciousness explorer, float tank inventor, & the guy they made the movie Altered States about) said in one of his books that when he was in the float tank for a few days while on LSD/KETAMINE he became one with a universal membrane which housed billions of entities. Food for thought.

Bets, I know what you mean about the guides. I don't know why they are so mysterious most of the time, and do things like only show there hands or bodies. I have a feeling that they either can't interfer to much or they can't get to close to our emotional energy. Without the scuba diving equipment of a human body, this level & energy may be to intense for them. I also think that like life there are good and bad people "out there', which makes it difficult to trust someone, if you can't get a proper handle on them.  

Still last nite while asleep I felt/saw myself being 'assigned' a bunch of monks to work with me after I requested it in meditation. Maybe you could pray and meditate to God to assign you some good helpers and to let you be aware of them. You may have to start keeping a dream journal. There presence seems very subtle and they may also be not what you expect which can be spooky. I guess at the end of the day you start to trust, when over a course of years, you've developed a reason to. I think I'm only fully getting to that stage now. Still, a bit of caution never hurt. I mean, would you go for a drive with someone who just turned up at your door who was a midget and wearing a pink tutu. My apologies to midgets & tutus but I'm trying to highlight the point that the spiritual often operates outside our expections.

I don't know if this point is related to the green/gold grid lines but for years I've seen purple & violet around the moon. The last few months it has changed to green/gold which has suprised me as it is such an unusual looking colour.
Cheers
Cris

While going to sleep I was looking near my feet in bed and saw a crumpled grid of orange lines - It's often there - Sometimes it looks like a person, sometimes two, often with little points of orange light, or sometimes just a tangle of lines near my left foot. A spook with a toe fetish?

Closing my eyes the big squares of the red grid were there, quickly turning into cubes and then fading.

I have no idea how to proceed here, but it seems to be a meaningful place to look.

d

Hi laffingrain,

Did the fence you saw define a particular space?  Like maybe an area you did or didn't want to enter?

So far, I think, the grids have been on the surface or around some  thing, like they provide its shape.

Hmm-mm, just realized that a grid pattern with larger open areas between the lines (like I think of as what we're talking about in these grid examples) is *not* very popular for clothing--- I wonder if we're uncomfortable with the unconscious reminder of an inner world (if grids are astral level forms).

Bets.

Greetings,

Alysia said: "I still think it's the brain manufactured it unto mind film.
no less real is mind film. if it's there, its there because
you see it. then when shown I could see it not there, it wasn't there."
Love it!
Love being here where we know what we mean when we talk like this! 

I thought of plaid but the colors often fill in the grid so completely that the grid gets blurred, so then I didn't count it. 'Plaid moods' ! 

Love, Bets

Bets quoted Recoverer said:  As recoverer said the astral body uses the crown chakra for its exit/entrance.
_____

just a slight correction. exit was made for myself between the eyes on occassion.
I do believe we can use any chakra to exit/enter, depending on the situation. but it's involuntary for most of us. (I had no idea I was going out that way)


Bets said:  I would relate the gridded items to the archetypal forms reported by Plato, but I often make those sideways jumps too readily.
____

I'm not familiar with archetypal forms reported by Plato but I might like to be!