Hi Everybody!!

This is my first post. I am pure believer in Almighty God and still have many questions about life's sorrows, pains,
meaningless violance ( e.g. the VA Tech Massacare...) etc. Also, I have always wonder all my life that, what kind of punishment would all those fascists / murderers would have received after death i.e. Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam, Pol Paut of Kambodia, Mughal Barbarians who slaughtered thousands and thousands in the name of Islam in the Indian Subcontinent e.g. Mohmmad Ghori, Mohmmad Ghazni, Ahmadshah Abdali, Taimur Lung, Aurangzeb, Babar etc. - just to name a few of all the killers / demons of Human History And hence, I would like to start the following topic.. all comments are welcome ...

Well... the last line of  faq on this site states that :
"No one forces anyone into such a "Hell" as punishment for their horrendous acts. It's part of the result of the person's free-will choice. They are free to make a new choice and leave their Hell at any time."
...So, doesn't this mean that anyone can commit any type of crime e.g. murder, rap, assault, torture during their physical existance and post-death,  just 'walk away' without any punishment at all through believing that nothing would / should happen to them as punishment ?!! ..This does sound absured ..It means that there's no payback time or punishment for the bad karmas done during the physical existance ? ...This is indeed sounds far away from all the religeous books say ..i.e. Good Karma shall be rewarded and Bad Karma would draw the punishment of hell or some other type i.e. re-incarnation and life full of greif and all types of pains ..???!!!   

-Nirvana

Hi Nirvana    Hitler and all the rest who commit these crimes are placed on a plain in heaven,with others who are just like them and they stay there until they see and feel remorse for what they have truly done and spirits from the higher plains go there and open there arms to these spirits ,such as hitler and say to them,"Who wants to be saved",so they do have a chance to put themselves right but some of them are so evil ,they refuse to go to the higher spirits,if they do go to the higher spirits they are lifted up,so they dont really get away with it,they just take time to come to terms with the fact of what they did,God is all loving and forgiving and he gives us all the chance to change,be it on the earth plain,or be it on the spirit plain. Thats why he gave us all Freewill.

Love and God bless    Love Juditha

Welcome, Nirvana.

No one can say with certainty what keeps people in a Hell.  What we know is that consciousness seems independent of a physical boy.  We have been told by mystics, religions and certain explorers that when people die, if they have a life review, they may be their own judges or mete out their own punishment.  As Dave on this site says, when confronted with actions which harmed another and then made aware of the radiant love of Heaven, many souls do not feel worthy of heaven.  As such, given that like attracts like, they find their own sphere of an afterlife - either what Bruce calls a "belief system territory" or a hell.  

The notion that a person who has wrought severe evil will be able to go from Hell immediately to heaven by merely requesting it or saying they changed their minds in a flippant way, is utterly ridiculous.  Oh wait, no excuse me......one of Don's favorite authors, Howard Storm, reported doing this very thing by reciting a butchered version of the Lord's prayer when he was cut apart by demons his near death experience.   Only because he couldn't remember it, he said something akin to "deliver us from evil, with liberty and justice for all."  (Ironic, isn't it, how Don makes fun of others for believing similar scenarios to this one)  It appears that heavenly divine grace is one exception that permits one to leave Hell for Heaven on a moment's notice.

Explorers like Emanuel Swedenborg have said that after we die, our inner self takes over; the outer mask of pretense to be civil or kind to others we wore to live with others on earth quicklly fades away.  Those who go willingly to a Hell, do so because their desires and perversions can not be hidden.  It is not enough for them to suddenly say they are tired of Hell and wish to be in Heaven, because their conscious desires and tendencies have not changed.  If suddenly moved to a heavenly plane, by all accounts those hellish souls would see nothing, because their consciousness is so very different than those in a heavenly plane.

How coulld people be freed from a hellish plane, or leave voluntarily?  Other than divine grace, it would appear that by changing one's consciousness and embracing love, love of others and of God, one's gestalt or total consciousness can transition out of a hellish plane.  Again, if like attracts like, then when through and through the consciousness or person is no longer bent on selfishness and harm to others, one can no longer stay in that hellish realm.  However, for many, giving up on old habits or selfish ways is not so easy.  

I do not believe that most souls could leave a Hell with a mere sentence saying they changed their minds.  There must be a qualitative change in state of the individual, an intent and movement through their free will toward love and God - that usually comes from learning and understanding.


Matthew

I read Storm's own account, and am aware of the transformation that occured in his life.  Your support of Nirvana's question implied that you, like myself do not believe that one can leave a Hell by superficially requesting it or by request without a true spiritual change of consciousness. 

When Storm left lhis Hell, he may have been ripe for a spiritual change, but had not achieved the change himsef.  It was therefore divine grace that recognized the potential for immediate change within him - this is rare - by all accounts, most of us have to go through a learning process first, perhaps atonement, followed by an expression of love. 

I was merely pointing out that Storm left his Hell with a quick prayer for help, much like the FAQ on this website stated was possible with free will.


Matthew

Life in this World is a challenge and corruption is a definite possibility. If it weren't, nobody would ever become corrupted.

We all start out as souls without any defilements. When our souls are sent into this World by whoever sends us it is understood that we are taking the risk of becoming corrupted. In addition to the factor of taking on an ego like nature that influences us in an unloving way, we are thrown into an environment where all kinds of negative influences exist. If we're fortunate we'll be born into a life with loving parents and other positive influences. If we're unlucky we'll be born into a family with negative influences such as parents who abuse and/or molest, a neighborhood filled with gang bangers, racist parents-perhaps kkk members, parents who are drug users and dealers, parents who are mafia members, parents who are islamic terrorists, life in a country where many people get influenced by a person such as Hitler, and so.

Some people might say that regardless of our influences we always have a free will. I agree that we have a free will, but I also believe it is possible for us become separated from that which enables us to make use of it, when we are bonked on the head over and over again with negative influences. It is completely unfair to judge a person who ends up being a negative person when life shows over and over again that it is possible to do so. It isn't like a soul is born into this World and while a baby it decides to become a negative person. A person's influences determine how he or she ends up.

If a person doesn't agree with what I'm saying, then why do some people end up becoming negative while others don't? If you say "just because they're bad," then why are they bad while others aren't? Were they created with more badness? If this is the case you can hardly hold it against them. If you answer no to this, and say they have access to divine wisdom and love just as much as everybody else, then why in tarnation don't they make use of it? There must be some factors that determine why some people make use of divine wisdom and love while others don't.

If one were to look at the studies which show why become negative, one would find that people who become negative are surrounded by all kinds of negative influences. For example, I watched 60 minutes last night and many of the people who become serial killers of some kind were bullied during their youth.

When it comes to racism, I was very fortunate. I was born into a family that isn't racist. Perhaps souls who are born into families that are racist and as result become racist themselves should be given credit for the difficult lives they take on.

An opposite way of looking at this is how some people try to influence other people in a positive manner. Perhaps through an outreach program. What is the point of doing so if influences don't have anything to do with it?

As long as life in this World is as difficult as it is, the World of spirit is going to have no choice but to send souls to lives that are very difficult. The souls who take on the responsibility of living these lives will very possibly end up with the fate of having a difficult life while here, and a difficult life while in the afterlife. It isn't fair for a person who didn't take on their difficult life to judge them and expect that they should be punished in a hellish realm once their life is over. Sure it is true that some people find their way clear of the negative influences that surround them. But the fact of how many people don't proves that it isn't easy to do so.

When a person becomes angry at a person who does negative things and hopes they become punished, he or she chooses to live according to the same lack of love and wisdom that a person who became negative ended up living by. Why is it okay for a person who judges to be unloving in some way, but not for the person judged? Two wrongs don't make a right.

When people meet a being of light during an NDE, they always report that this being of light loves them unconditionally. Perhaps we should follow their example and stop throwing stones.

Juditha:

I have a couple of similar stories to tell. I used to have a cat. She was traumatized because she lived in a house with a lady who had 22 cats and a bunch of dogs. This cat lived in a bathroom while with the lady. When I first got her she would hide under a cabinet in my garage whenever I brought food to her.  She would come out only after I left. Eventually she got to the point where she would eat food in front of me as long as I didn't stand to close to her. Next she started coming up the steps and would meow for her food. Next she felt safe enough to come into the house. Eventually she would let me pet her but with a little resistance. In the end it got to the point where she would jump onto my bed and on to me, and would be stubborn about leaving.

Another story involves a dog. She used to belong to my barber's son. This dog would bark all the time and poop everywhere. My barber's son tried to take care of this by yelling at her and hitting her. He told his mom (my barber) that he was going to kill that dog. My barber took the dog. When the dog pooped in a place it shouldn't my barber spoke to it real gently, petted it, gave it a piece of bacon, and showed it where to poop. From then on the dog stopped barking all of the time and always poops in the right place. She is now a very close companion of my barber.

I believe the above is a lesson. When people become confused you don't make them become more angry by giving them more of what they have already received.  You try to help them out of their confusion by sharing love, wisdom and light.  I don't see how spirits can be happy in a place like heaven if they knew that other souls are suffering in hell. It certainly doesn't make sense to send a soul to hell for all of eternity for inflicting suffering on a person who now exists as a very happy, forgiving and loving soul in heaven. How will a loving soul who now abides in heaven become happier by making a confused soul who had done them wrong suffer in hell? I believe like you do Juditha. A point will come when a soul will feel remorse for the wrong it did.  What could be more torturous than finding out how you hurt others?


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DocM wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2007 at 10:46pm:

Nice post and I agree with most of it.. Also, I don't think those were demons tearing him apart.. They were just ignorant humans who love to hate and torture people.. The soul if it is degraded and evil projects how the person looks in the afterlife as well.. So, we see them as who they really are inside and outside..

Also, I have said it before people only choose hell out of ignorance and by having no remorse.. Or they fear punishment and aren't connected to God in anyway.. Also, their own hell is their heaven.. It just depends on what you choose after death, that is to choose to love yourself and others no matter what you have done in your last life.. Realizing we all are sinners.. But most ignorant people choose hate,self-pity, self-loathing, and fear over love and acceptance.. God doesn't punish man.. Man punishes himself..

Anyone can get out of their own hell by choosing love and forgiveness or by saying a prayer to God for help.. Just like Howard Storm did.. Or is it because Howard is just a lucky guy chosen to be favored by God.. Or was it because the nuns he never agreed with back then prayed for him to seek the truth and be saved by God.. lol Doesn't everyone pray for others even their enemies.. So, that can't be it either..The others are not chosen and deserve hell.. Sounds pretty ignorant to me... God loves everyone equally.. It is just most people choose to go away from God and believe they deserve punishment.. As Bruce said addiction of anything can be hard to choose to stray away from.. So, choosing not to hate anymore or fear anymore can be a hard thing to do.. To get out of their own hells..