Chum,

You haven't passed over yet, and you don't know what your encounters would be like then.  You hear on this site that we all create our own afterlife experience one way or another.  If you create a hell, you may be there until your consciousness was willing to accept other alternatives.

But you assume an awful lot.   You assume you won't feel a huge change in spirit.  You also assume that you are being denied oblivion by some superhuman being.  Yet you haven't experienced anything telling you that any of your thoughts are true.


M

[quote author=blink link=1175716071/0#2 date=1175718239]Chum, you know Shakespeare said it best......


To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.


But, yes, we hear you!

I agree with Matthew....there are a lot of assumptions made about this version of "god" that you describe.  I personally think hell is in the eye of the beholder. All this "lake of fire" kind of imagery is just nothing I've ever seen in any of my meditations. I have seen some characters who don't seem to feel too great where they are, but helpers seem to be on the way.

Oblivion? Hmmmnnnnn.....well isn't that delicious feeling of going to sleep worth waiting for?  Maybe you can have that feeling over and over in the afterlife however much you want. 

Just like in the movie Groundhog Day where the day repeats over and over.....it would be YOUR OWN PERSONAL version of heaven.  You'd be putting your weary head down to sleep, knowing you don't have to get up in the morning, ever again.  Over and over and over and over.

Think of it!  The pleasure of it!  Forever falling asleep, over and over and over and over and over...
*****************
Maybe that might be O.K., IF I can PERMANENTLY trim away all my memories of my
life, of who I was, or ANY knowledge ( whatsoever!) that I was EVER a conscious entity here on Earth. Perhaps then, I'd have a finctional oblivion, which got progressively deeper the longer I was in it.
AND I'd have to make sure I didn't DREAM, either.
Still, it would be a pi$$-poor substite for being annnihilated...

B-man

Ha ha, chumly, you serve a purpose here. You are an absolutely
classic case, to be used as a reference point for discussion.
You spell it all out clearly!   Whenever I need an example of the man
near the extreme end of the scale, you are that example.

Thanks recoverer, for this wonderful NDE that I somehow missed.
It clarified some areas that I needed. I especially liked the
description of meeting all our previous lives, and blending all the
information together. Also described is the greatly enhanced
thinking process that I had read of, but not seen many examples of.
That was something I had been told of by an adept named Pierre. He
said that I might someday reach that, but it seems to be still a
long, long way off.

Also, the description of the love force is the best description I
have yet read. This is where the idea of a universe with a basic
operating principle of love comes from. I had been needing to
juxtaposition this against my view of the physical mechanical
universe as random, pitiless and indifferent. This is that huge
difference between this plane and the higher planes.

I still say that the physical universe (that chumly is so unhappy
with, incidentally) could not have come from the same source as the
higher levels, which are very different. This NDE shows that
difference more clearly, two entirely different sectors that operate
on entirely different principles.

I also note the presence of authority, when everyone became aware
that a decision had been made on high, that he was to return to
Earth. (actually he had to make this decision).
This is what has become the nearest thing to a concept of
God as I can get. That is, if there really is a God, that is him,
causing these decisions, or as near as I could get. But this is
almost unrelated to the natural disasters and diseases of Earth, a
totally different world running on different principles. This
difference is what puts believers in juxtaposition with atheists,
and puts love in juxtaposition with indifference.

Hey Chum,

You once confessed that you used to be a goodie-two-shoes "spiritual" soul.  In other words, you've changed.   What makes you think you won't change again, perhaps several times before and after death?  For example, consider this vision of the future B-man: you are a senile, incontinent octogenarian in a nursing home singing "Jesus Loves Me" to your smiling nursing aide, a sweet Puerto Rican gal named Maria who keeps responding, "That's OK, honey, just take your medication."     You vaguely recall that Sunday School song from yoiur youth, but can't clearly sort out your later rebellion against Christianity.   What will happen to your brash defiance be if you enter the afterlife that way? 

Your in the sweet incense of the prayers of the saints,
Don
*****************
So... inanity is to be my future, then..?
An ETERNITY of being an inane Cream-of-Wheat dribbler
in a nursing home, or the equivalent thereof? (That IS what
Yahwist "heaven" is all about, after all... becoming a stripped
down, mindless, sub-human retarded entity!!!)
Lusting for oblivion,

B-man

Chumley:

You might like Ron Krueger's near death experience. If things work out like he says, are you certain that you want your existence ended. Saints preserve us! What would we do without Chumley?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22near+death+experience%22+%22ron+k%22&fr=yfp-...


I posted the yahoo page because the pages with his experience won't post above.
*****************
Sounds like Hell to me, recoverer.
Why is this fate, something to look forward to?
HUMILITY, as a "wonderful" thing? Humility is
TORTURE!!! (I oughtta know...)
To never know what it is like to be top dog? A
communistic place where I will have to LOVE the worst
ENEMY I ever had on Earth, as much as I do my father?
(Will I be forced to give my enemy blowjobs as a token
of my "humility", I wonder..?)
To become like the "Borg" on "Star Trek"? No thanks,
you can have my piece of THAT s**t-pie. Give
me oblivion instead!!!

B-man

B-dawg wrote on Apr 5^th, 2007 at 5:49am:



Well, Chum, you said you HATE reality. Assuming that is actually TRUE, which I doubt......this wouldn't BE reality....because it would be your REWARD for reality....

ha ha....you make me shiver with delicious chills of real laughter, which is why I DO like this reality!

blink