DocM wrote on Mar 26^th, 2007 at 8:47am:


Certainly! In point of fact, truest, most helpful, highest understanding of the spiritual, only points towards the sacredness of existence at all levels of being, including (and in very poignant, special ways) at the physical-biological incarnate level, as well as at the human homo sapiens level.

The physical-biological incarnate state, as well as the human state, both represent very special, to-be-cherished, sacred opportunities for any soul, any spirit being, any consciousness. Let alone being both physically incarnate *and* being a human.

"Easy to say. What about all the suffering in the world?"
Well then, what do you think you're here for? Here's your chance to do something about it. Here's (your life is) your chance, to make a difference to others in the world.

*Every* physically incarnate human being is indeed a powerful opportunity to bring about great and helpful changes, even if but as a minicog in a greater multi-dimensional trans-personal team effort. Not even just for the Earth, but as possibilities go, some day, in some ways, for the galaxy.

Some people might yearn for 'enlightenment' which they might imagine to be the 'end of the need for reincarnation'. Yet at the same time, on the other hand, there are channeled messages from highly evolved guide and helper beings who say the physical incarnate state is the state to be admired, not the non-physical; as well as the fact that increasingly so, virtually all non-physical beings involved with the Earth Life System, both the lesser evolved or 'negative' (a relative terminology) beings to the guides & helpers and even many highly evolved non-human souls, are wishing to *physically incarnate* and personally be present to participate in the unique situation and conditions now coalescing on humanity, on Earth, and on the nature of what might be, the opportunities, the exchange, the networking. Ever accelerating. Ever higher stakes. Things have never been quite so interesting, anywhere in the galaxy.

We would say, it's *not* that the physical-biological incarnate state/condition is superior/better/more-desired than the extraphysical/non-physical state, *nor* vice-versa; but the goal being to blend/interweave/work simultaneously and fully consciously with *both* states, and *as* both states, to shall we say, experience the "best of both worlds".

That is to say, ideally, for each individual/group/system (even differing ideological, religious, philosophical or spiritual ones), to simultaneously experience and work at both the intraphysical and extraphysical levels, that every being and consciousness be a bridge across dimensions simultaneously; all at the same time interacting meaninfully with all other consciousnessess both intraphysically and extraphysically. (Even meaningful, helpful, loving interaction and communication between intraphysicals in much of the world today, unfortunately does not yet exist, let alone between intraphysicals and extraphysicals).

This is the long term goal, of human evolution; and one certainly worth working towards.

Hi Doc-
I sense two things hrere. One is that you and Kyo and Blink are more or less involving in the global experience, not just the immnediate, but all the fringes and parts that are still around the corner.  Indeed, this is oneof the most interesting times to be alive - we and the planet are casting off the prelimninary seeds before populating the universe. It's better than the discovery of the New World!

The other thing is that you ask this as a question. This brings to mind the usual problem of the hippie who has just overdosed on something and now discovers that there is no longer a "real world" - everything has turned into an hallucination. Its like the Cartesian epiphany - "I find myself plunged into a water so deep that I can neither sink to the bottom nor rise to the top." Then there follows the discussion of the hallucinatory world made of wax and the decision "I am a thinking thing". (I'm citing Duc de Luyns trans)

This is the precise problem of the neurotic (or befuddled hippie - I have a little experience in this area) - once we lose touch with our original natural state, what is real? (Notice the semblance to "Original Sin".) The quick answer is that nothing has changed, we simply have opened more windows and can live in, appreciate and enjoy it.

The liong answer is to look at what is happening, and from that, draw a suitable conclusion - to discover that we are "thinking thngs",  However, like most of the people on the forum, you have had experiences transcendent of mere "thinking".  That complicates matters. In my practice I use the strategy of suggesting that people look back toward the moment prior to the Beginning.  There was, by definition, Nothing. Then came the "Uncaused Cause" and from that Nothing, plus the Cause, all of this stuff emerged.

The "Cause" might look like statistics (to me) or "Cosmic Consciousness" (per yoga), or Action in Space-time (physics) or whatever. No matter, the present moment is how it unfolded, and you and I and the rest of the world are how it looks today.  And, from the core of the Creation, there is a projected ray of definition that specifies you. (And a similar ray that defines each of us at the projected end, and the Cause at the other end.) So, you exist, contingent only upon emptiness plus a creative Cause, which is self evident.

Therefor your nature is the extended nature of the Creator that you manifest.  The task in life seems to be this discovery, and after that, to create happiness - perhaps by becoming a therapist. Thus, in your case, it seems that you're right on schedule.  The hallucination is the thought that there could be something amiss.

This might be dubious theology, but it seems to work with hippies etc.

PUL
dave

Hello old friend,

I think people admire the non physical, because people often describe it as a painless, stress free paradise. People take comfort in this, and the everyday pains we feel, means 99% of people come to the same conclusion the non physical > then the physical.

I see the physical as a journey, it allows you to learn at a very fast rate (a rate i don't believe is possible in the non physical) it is constantly teaching us, and evolving us.

I believe i am working the physical, because it's my job/destiny to, and that i will return to paradise (i hope) and look back on my life, and think to myself 'i did well, and i have earned a good rest'.

I believe people should squeeze as much enjoyment out of life as 'humanly' possible, but remember, the physical is never going to be as peaceful as the non physical, but by choosing the physical, you are pushing yourself! expanding your consciousness, and you are suffering for personal growth, and in the end it will be worth it.

Hi Doc, I haven't read this entire thread, but I will try  later to make comment.
I was interested to see you as a musician. it didn't fit my view of you. I gave up music for awhile. one day I woke up crying because I had given it up. I plan on learning the piano for my next project!
but i also want to ice skate. a little secret I have. I feel I have balanced the two lobes of my brain basically through listening to ambient stuff, so that gives my feet balance too!
I'm not sure I'm on topic, so I should read the thread and shut up.
I'm glad u say u want to read my book. let me know please, what I said..

love, alysia