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 I have to somewhat agree with this last part.  It seems to talk about the ego too much, its too much of a focus.   I liken the process of changing oneself, to that of the subconscious mind and the principles behind hypnosis.   The subconscious mind doesn't understand "negatives".   If you have a problem, say with eating unhealthy food, you don't say, "you won't eat unhealthy food anymore"...the subconscious mind doesn't understand this, its concentrating on the problem (eating unhealthy food) and so it won't help to change.   But instead if you say, "you desire only healthy and live food, etc..." then it will help, cause now you are focusing on the solution and not the problem.  

 It seems like ACIM focusses a lot on the problem, and not enough on the solution especially in the first part.    I'm of the belief that a person needs to analyze and become aware of self, in an individual way, and that includes feeling out what comes from one's ego and what doesn't.  Become aware of it, but not concentrate on it, and in any case, we're talking more specific things to individuals.  In any case, once aware of the problem or issue, concentrate more on the solution and on what will help you to change.  

""Thank you for the above. I've found that if I focus my attention on my negative mental tendencies this is all they need to come into action. What's important is to let go of these tendencies and develop the will power to not live according to them.""

   In any case, i like Matthews' words on this,  
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""What Matthew wrote is true to an extent, but if the course doesn't contain the words of Jesus Christ, I find it really sad that millions of people are mislead by it.

Regarding Seth, like you, a couple of times I tuned into a bad/dark vibe when I read him. Some of the things he says about Jesus are insulting and completely false.

Here's a question. If a person came up to you and insulted your family and had misrepresented them in some way, would you choose to have a conversation with this person simply because he had a few pithy things to say?""

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 1:08pm:


  That's kind of a "loaded" statement.  However expanded a teaching is, however fast vibrating and attuned to Source the teacher is, this doesn't necessarily produce enlightened students.   Completely spiritualizing the body while in physical seems to be a rather challening process, otherwise there would be more He/She, Yeshua types around.  Show me anybody who is completely enlightened, no matter what the belief system or teaching involved..

   Yeshua didn't get "special" and unique teachings, which made him become that way while others exposed to the same teachings didn't.   It was because of his spiritual will and choosing.   


    As far as ACIM goes, if it is not really from Jesus, and has a tendency to keep the ego alive, then i'm surprised that Bruce Moen recommends this book.   Surely his guidance would have let him know if this book wasn't the most constructive teaching in the world?

  Or, in reading Bob Monroe's biography, i came to a part where some people who had attended one of his programs, asked him what he believed in, what was his life philosophy, and he simply showed them a copy of ACIM.

  Bob doesn't seem to me like the gullible type when it comes to stuff like that, and he was surely rather consciously in touch with his own guidance too, probably even more so than a lot of people here.   Like Bruce Moen, wouldn't Monroe's guidance have told him to be careful of this teaching if it was a false one?

Alysia:

Why are you convinced? Isn't it possible that some of the words in the course could help a person such as yourself growth, even if they didn't come from Christ? As I showed with my experience with a cult, people manage to grow while following teachings with a false source all the time, because there is enough within such teachings for a sincere person to make use of.

If you have a reason for knowing that the course is true other than your own growth, please let us know. I've really tried to see that the course does represent the teachings of Christ, and even though positive things are said, I couldn't come to a conclusion that they are.

I bet you I could find you all kinds of guru books that say nice things, but if you looked at what the guru is really about you would see that he isn't a master.

Don't you believe it is important to be responsible when it comes to telling people that a course does in fact come from Jesus Christ?

Partly what Bruce Moen's books are about is questioning belief systems. When it comes to ACIM, are you willing to do this just a little bit? You don't have to give up your growth in order to do so.

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 4:18pm:

Alysia:

I don't believe that you're going to burn. I believe that your intentions are good. I'm certain that God and Christ see what is in our hearts regardless of what we read.

[quote author=recoverer link=1174596312/30#38 date=1175031378]Ahso:

One other thing about Monroe and Moen okaying the book. ACIM contradicts their way of thinking in some key ways. ACIM states that we exist in the World as we do today not because this is what God wanted, but because we chose to do so all on our own.
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I believe we were sucked into the gravity because we were curious beings and we started making karma for ourselves, which would explain wanting to return to get it right time after time. This is what I read from Monroe. Now he is graduated from that wheel. ACIM says God sees his children as still at home, in their beds and sleeping, having a nightmare. god knows we are safe, because we are still at home.
so whats the conflict? I see us probing our nightmares.
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Bruce on the other hand wrote that Consciousness wanted to explore the unknown so it created a bunch of probes.
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yes, but we are all still exploring and interpreting. If we knew everything at once we wouldn't even be here hashing it out. if you see us as a chunk of god broken off, we are simply making our way back to god, mending the seeming separation.
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Monroe's experience of the Creator/aperture
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I don't know what aperture is.
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, and Bruce's experience of the Creator/aperture express the same point. Going by Moen's words the creator had a plan. This is hardly in line with we created separate from God
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I still don't have a problem with this. we are dreaming that we are separate from god. in a way that is a plan. I have noticed we all have an intention for a single life, that would be us, as a part of the creator, with a plan. in a world which created good and bad, duality, hot and cold, male and female, we divide everything, we measure everything, we measure our separation from god degree by degree, on the other side there is no duality, all is one. man made a hell himself, not god made the hell, nor the war. god is a god of love. but god is not a single man with a beard up in heaven. I think u don't get it, god is in side of you, he never left. he was always there. he is life itself.
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. Us probes do what we've been created to do. Our discs send us into the physical so we can become confused for a while.
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confused? its more like we forgot who we are. but we can remember if we try,  by remembering each other.
the way I think of it Albert, is we need to be more quiet and listen, instead of talking so much, the listening part can reveal all.

love, alysia

song to you: only love can break a heart, only love can mend it again..

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 4:33pm:


Certainly a possibility, though not likely a "probability" by any means.   Both strike me as highly perceptive men with a fine and innate balance between left and right brain aspects.   I am surprised that both recommend and were involved in with this book, i would be more likely to doubt it if it was just one of them. 

   Bruce is one of the few in-physical people i've tuned into in this life whom i felt was energetically beyond me in my present state, meaning their overall vibratory patterns were more speeded up than my own, more spiritually developed and closer to that standard of standards, pure White Light.   There are very few people i've sensed such amounts of golden light, with true violets and deep clear blues in relation too.  Bruce is not "perfected" or at completely At-One-Ment like Yeshua was and is, and so there is definitely room for error or skewing of info besides the normal problem of translating nonphysical info into physical means of understanding (which tends to skew by its inherent nature of translation).  But, he's overall and all in all not that "far" either vibrationally speaking in my perception. 

   So, while i don't always 100 percent agree with him and his views, i tend to at least pay close attention to what he says.  I respect the man immensely, not because of what he has done, the books he has written, his experiences or what not, but because of who he is and his emanation.    Again, there have been very few people i've sensed so much golden light in connection too.  But at the same time, i don't put him on a pedestal and i more than realize that he is a in physical human personality with limitations because he is not yet perfectly attuned to Source.

   While Bruce and i are rather different personalities in many respects with rather different specific paths, in a sense i see Bruce almost like a future me, me some 30 years down the line.  Meaning on a Soul level (not personality wise) there is a resonance or similar wavelength, and he is like a more mature version of me in that respect. 

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  You speak as if guidance is a material type communication or something like that.  There are varying levels to guidance, and we are always receiving it whether we ask for it or not, its part of the in-physical "contract" or Life plan.   Sometimes we ask to not get such obvious answers and signs which tends to happen more with specific and concentrated intentions and conscious seeking, but on a Soul and feeling level we are always getting info if we open up to it.

  For someone really in touch with guidance (especially its deepest or core levels), its almost completely automatic.  They come across another energy, consciousness, book, belief system or what not, and automatically register the relative vibratory levels of such "outer" energies though of course there is "interference", "static" to varying degrees depending on their attunement to Source.   They don't have to sit there and ask, "is this true or not?"    The feel the truth or lack there of more or less clearly and more or less automatically. 

   I think both Bruce and Bob kind of fit into the above category of being able to sense the basic and underlying "essence" in other outside energies.

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  Sure, will do.  My hunch is that its kind of a mix, and perhaps Helen didn't realize the more subtle aspects of this process herself.  We humans tend to think in black and white terms so much of the time, either--or.   It could be that Jesus, Helen's ego, Helen's "higher" self, etc. were all involved in this project.   Jesus works through others, not because he needs to, but because the people he is working with, need him too.  Just because we have the Gospels, doesn't mean he isn't still working with various people and putting messages out there.

  He could have written the course in his own hand, after all he never left physically or in spirit.   What was maybe more important, was the inbetween, the process for Helen more specifically.    There are plenty of belief systems and teachings out there, which teach adequate princples and concepts, any with the base or basis of love, compassion or PUL is an important one with a deep message.   It becomes more a matter of living the truth you feel as you have written many times.   The exact "package" of the belief system isn't always the most important part. 

  Sometimes people get too hung up on the exact and specific package it comes in, predominant left brainers tend to this by their very nature and balance (really lack thereof). 

  Belief systems are like songs, they have their own unique and varying pattern of energies, and since we are individuals, we all react slightly differently to each "song" according to our own specific and relative vibratory patterns and how the two major factors "mix".  What is "constructive" and harmony for some, is not completely so for another and vice versa, though of course like with music (or anything) there can be averages and probabilities.

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   Me too, i'm open to more info about ACIM.  Again, my hunch is that its a complex mix and not so black and white, but i'm also trying to be open to a black and white interpretation if this is actually the case.   I see that Alysia's brought up good and valid points, Don has brought up good and valid points, Roger, you, etc. have all brought up good and valid points, but is any one of us completely accurate from the most expanded level of knowing? 

   I'm must be honest, and admit that when Don brought up Helen's supposed deep depression, it really made me think about it all again and in a more critical way.   Yet, i think that Don is assuming way too much in his post and with little to go on for those assumptions. 

   The message isn't always the same thing as the messenger.  There have been over the long centuries some pretty unbalanced people trying to spread the word and message of Christ.   Is this Christ's fault or lack, or is it the individual's own freewill and lack of deeper awareness and/or livingness of such truth as exemplified by him?

  By all means, if Helen really lived these teachings, one would think that probably she would have been a more radiantly happy, joyful, centered and balanced person.   Yet, i am reminded of the old saying about Doctors and them often not following their own advice when it comes to them.

  Also, i brought up very valid possibilities outside of the spiritual and psychological, which could account for Helen's emotional-mental state, such as the nature and little understood role of sometimes purely physical causes in relation to emotional-mental states.   

  It seemed all to easy and cavelier for Don to just assume and so seemingly strongly that Helen's psychological state before her death was directly related to her having been a channel for ACIM and any possibly nonphysical consciousnesses.   It seemed like a "convenient fix" to explain things, though at first glance it does give us pause to consider more deeply.   I am reminded of Jane Roberts and her channeling.   Jane was not a happy camper by any means before she died, or so it seems.   Again, was this directly related to her channeling or was it more physical in nature?

  Depression and severe emotional-mental imbalance are deep and complex issues with many potential factors involving any and all "levels" of being, sometimes mostly simultaneously, sometimes not.  Definitely not "one size fits all", though again there are certain averages one can notice.

  An interesting example is Cayce.   Cayce had some pretty deeply depressed periods in his life (which he overcame and transformed eventually), and one of the deeper reasons given for this by his guidance was because in another life he had killed himself in a needless and destructive manner, and his life as Cayce was interwined strongly with this other life and so there was a strong affect.   But his body-physical was also rather consisently imbalanced from more physical causes (as mentioned numerous times by his guidance), and this was a strong factor as well.   And of course, there often were other factors behind karmic and physical-body wise.   Sometimes he was really "tested" by very challening outer conditions and people in his life.