thats a good post Justin. you seem to have a good grasp on it. I am hoping in this century and soon, we can bring religious concepts into alignment with science as we know it, so that we can really reach maximum velocity. however, i may be way ahead of things as they are in reality.

One thing I ponder on here, aside from ACIM, is some methology I read long ago about the inhabitants of Earth. I believe before Lemuria? Lemuria was a group of souls around the same time as the Atlanteans were said to be here. What the story was spirit landed here, much the same way as Bruce's "Curiosity" story. We were magnetized into the Earth's gravity and began experimenting. I don't believe the soul had divided yet into male female category's. I don't believe we had developed that far. So, things went awry, wouldn't you know it?   we entered the bodies of animals and procreated that way, creating an odd assortment of centaurs, half man, half beast.
oh oh, it was dna mayhem..back to the spirit drawing board in the sky.
new plans were drawn up to create man as man and animal to remain as the animal kingdom. good thinking...so from the man, a woman form now came, but she, his feminine side, was really himself, split into male and female. and things became more orderly insofar as spirit running amuck on the planet in attempts to evolve into our present society. which aint all that wonderful, but certainly better than what I just described.

so the way I see spirit, and oneness, and bodies, I see spirit as a chunk of god, this chunk found this planet, it was fascinating, it was opportunity to individualize and evolve with this issue of choice, free will. so we all are this chunk which broke off, we were on a scouting mission and got sidetracked? maybe we didn't get sidetracked, but I see the main body of god as waiting on us to get back home, and that this is a place to grow more consciousness, loosh, god stuff, be all that we can be, for the betterment of all of us.

just sharing some thoughts and I thank you for your thoughts as well, they are something I will think about.
love, alysia

Hi Guys,

Thanks Alysia for starting this thread, it was just upper I needed for this weekends project.

Just went through the entire thread to be able to pick ACIM card by asking, “What would be a most helpful response for me at this time?” and got: 

     Anger cannot occur
           unless you believe that you have been attacked,
            that your attack is justified in return,
     and that you are in no way responsible for it,*
All in response to Alysia’s choice of affirmation, “I want only peace of mind.”  Which really is the question, “Do I want to win or have peace of mind?”  Of course in the world of form, as E. Tolle puts it, we all tend to want to win but in the world beyond form, the other option is more appealing.  Many of us are attempting to go beyond the world of form as show by the effort put forth and insights expressed in this thread alone.  Some of us tend to respond through the study of others words, sure save time, but direct experience is also good because then we can get the chance to move beyond belief to knowing. It doesn’t matter whether or not we’re right or wrong concerning our knowing, ‘cause remember we’re merely gathering information.  We get enough of our stories together, then… yadda, yadda, yadda, we become the new belief system.  That’s why I really appreciate Monroe and Bruce setting up places and giving tools for us to not only have a chance at direct experience but also have support while doing this.

Anyhow back to “I want only peace of mind.”  Many of us believe that by “attacking” we can really get something we want. We forget that by “attacking” and “defending” ourselves we loose that elusive, deep in the heart-sigh of calmness felt as we experience inner peace.

The course gives some tips that I’ve found helpful-when I can remember to use them (duh):

     1)Today, I will view without judgment everything that occurs, and will remind myself frequently:
     Everyone     exists with me, to be loved, not judged.
    
     2)Throughout the day when you feel threatened, repeat to yourself: In my defenselessness lies my safety
        and strength. I choose to leave weakness behind today.

Just some samples from ACIM and presented in a more clear way by G.Jampolsky from his Mini Course for Healing Relationships and Bringing About Peace of Mind.  As far as wondering why and where we come from and where god fits into all this, I tend to go along with Monroe’s take after he entered the Aperture and his Knowns in UJ pgs 224-225.

I do apologize for being a Monroe/Moen “groupie” and add that I like the line given in the ROTE received when Monroe took the above ultimate journey as how it relates in my view to attacking, peace, and being one through the glue of PUL: There is no greater, there is no lesser, There is only balance and There is no union, there is no sharing, There is only one.

But then again, I think these must be viewed through the eyes and heart of non-form.

Got a kick out of responding to this thread, hope someone out there might find it helpful as I’ve found the other posters 2cents worth this weekend.

Love and lots of glue, Jean

*T,84, ACIM

ps I'm with Justin in that I do have to take ACIM in small doses or the old ego flares up with anger as oppossed to falling asleep as a coping mechanism. That's why I like the cards and Jampolsky's mini course rather than taking on the text of 3 books and that's after having an open house every tuesday on ACIM for 4 years back in the '90's.
 

Jesus is the alleged source of ACIM which was channeled over 7 years by Columbia psychologist, Helen Schucman.  The real Jesus warns about the need for discernment of counterfeiting spirits: “By their fruits you will know them (Matthew 7:16).”  One would expect ACIM to be a rich blessing in Helen’s life.   So there is a tragic irony in two bogus claims by ACIM's Jesus: “Anyone who elects a totally insane guide must be insane himself. (Chap. 9, IV, p. 170)”  “It would be madness to entrust salvation to the insane (Chap. 25, VII, p. 533).” 

Benedict Groeschel, a priest and psychologist, was close enough to Helen to be asked to give a eulogy at her funeral in 1981.  Benedict writes: “This woman who had written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in THE BLACKEST PSYCHOTIC DEPRESSION I have ever witnessed. “  Apparently, this impersonating spirit warned about an insane guide to mask its intent to make Helen insane.  Evil entities routinely deceive by sharing truths to set up a devastating lie.  Benedict was known for his skepticism about alleged cases of demonic possession.   For example, he was called to perform an exoricism in a case in which objects were thrown around the room by an unseen hand.  He dismissed this case as an example of paranormal manifestations, but not of diabolical possession.  So it is striking that this no-nonsense psychologist admits that Helen’s channeling may well be a case of demonic possession. 

ACIM's Jesus contradicts the historical Jesus' teaching at several key points.  Most notably, ACIM denies Jesus' self-professed mission to die for our sins (e. g. Mark 10:45).  In fact, ACIM's Jesus even denies the reality of sin.  This is a typical ploy of demonic entities.   But there is a vast army of gullible new Agers who could care less about the real Jesus' warnings about the evil intent of spirit impersonators.   Their ghetto mentality prevents them from researching what Christian spirituality and discernment actually entails.

Don

Don't take it personally, Alyssia.  We pick and choose what we integrate into our own ideas and beliefs.  Whether it is the Seth material, Elias - who my gut has always told me was off base, or ACIM, someone can always legitimately pose you or me the question:

"but what if this channeling was not JC/Seth/Elias?"  "how would that effect your beliefs/ideas about the book?"  If there are certain truths in ACIM you have found to ring true/resonate with, and have seen a positive change in your life with it, that is what it is all about.

What nefarious purpose what an imposter accomplish by trying to have everyone espouse love and get closer to God?  None that I can see.

I understand Don's need to post his doubts, especially with his background and studies on JC.  His doubt should not sully your experience or love of this book.  We should all be grounded enough in our own experiences and ideas that we do not rely to heavily on another person/being's dictums/path.  This is why we explore on our own. 

So let your heart lighten, dear one.  Don't be sad/angry, as life is too short for that.  This thread has had a positive effect, and the ideas expressed within are worth reading.

Matthew

Berserk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2007 at 7:31pm:



 Hi Don, I'm curious about this last paragraph.  So, we are assuming that Helen's depression is directly attributable to her channeling, and specifically to ACIM?   Do other people who knew Helen, particularly during this time where Benedict said she was in the "blackest psychotic depression i have ever witnessed", also have a similar opinion or perception of her at that point?

 I'm honestly curious because i'm not 100 percent "sold" on ACIM.  I think there are a lot of beautiful ideas, imagery, and concepts in same, but i don't know for sure if Jesus was the author.   Is there anymore corroborating info along the lines of the above?

 Also, as far as i'm aware, ACIM doesn't completely deny the concept of suffering by any means, what it does deny is that it is not ultimately of God (which makes it ultimately unreal though real enough in the moment for us), but of our egos which is something we created, and because we created it outside of the will or consciousness of God, it is a temporal reality ultimately.   Yet, the course says that suffering is real while we are feeding it, it hurts, and it also seems to say that its the catalyst behind us wayward Souls to eventually not choose unreality, or un-Godness anymore.  

 This more than makes sense to me, and doesn't it also jibe with the N.T. as well?  I remember something in there talking about Jesus and his life like, "He learned obediance through the things he suffered."  (not exact).  I know a big reason of why i'm on a spiritual path is that i'm just sick of suffering for myself, and also i want to see it end for my brothers and sisters as well.  I want to be happy, but not dependant happy, and again i want the same for others.

Quote:


 Again, that seems to be a "black and white" characterization.  ACIM seems, to me, to say that ultimately there is no sin, because anything not based in God can not truly and eternally exist, yet says that for us freewilled children that we can err, we can sin, but that its not ever unpardonable, ever.   We just have to change our choices, and stop choosing outside of God's plan, will, and way of being.  The more we do this, and do this conisistently the more happy we eventually become.

 This again makes sense to me.  If God, Source or what not, is THE reality, the eternal, the perfect, etc., then "sin" is not of God, but of us, and like suffering will eventually not exist anymore either both in an invidual sense and in a collective sense.    ACIM or no, i do believe in error, or missing the mark as some might call it.  To me, there is a "standard" and that standard is love, especially as expressed through and by Yeshua, all encompassing, unlimited, impersonal, but yet God is more than love as well.   So, we can express un-love to varying degrees as judged relatively from the standard of completely universal, unconditional, and constructive love.

  As far as Helen and what Benedict says about her depression, if it is true then there possibly may be other reasons beyond ACIM and its channeling, correct?   Could it be that Helen here had some very high ideals of treating others with only love and in a purely constructive manner, but as a human being she had a hard time living up to those ideals?   When one has really high ideals and rarely lives up to them, this can certainly dog ones conscience can it not, and do it enough this could lead to depression especially considering facilitating factors.

  As far as the above, i'm reminded of Edgar Cayce and his life and psychic readings.  His guides espoused very high ideals, and Cayce sometimes seemed to have had a hard time living up to them, and this sometimes got to him i think.  He fell often, and he went through some depressive periods too, which wasn't helped by his lack of physical health, and the continual outer testings which is bound to occur in a basically materialistic and/or religiously dogmatic society which shuns and reacts negatively to the "unknown".

 Also, we're assuming that depression in general is mostly a emotional/mental, psychological, and/or spiritual issue here, what of physicality and body health or lack thereof?   Serverly and chronically pinched nerves (in the spinal system), imbalanced body and brain chemistry from bad diet, too much stress, lack of exercise (especially right kind) etc., and many other factors can greatly facilitate depressive states of being in physically incarnate personality.    
I suffered with rather severe depression from the time i was little to about age 21 or so.  Some of it was psychological and spiritual, definitely, but a lot i noticed was also physical.   The more i cleaned up my general lifestyle along the health lines, the more i noticed mood improvement, and this was not an easy, nor simple process.   It took a lot of discipline and research on many levels, and it took a lot of time as well (it was 7 years before it was noticably and consistently improved).   A lot of changes in diet, in exercise, more meditation and prayer.

 Yeah, there was a lot of work elsewhere as well, but a lot was directly physical in nature.  

 Again, not so black and white.  So, while Helen may have been a basically "spiritual" person, perhaps she lacked knowledge in other areas such as diet, health, etc., perhaps her body was overall very imbalanced via more purely physical means and causes--some she may not even have known about (such as spinal nerve impingements?  

There are a couple of very dramatic and well documented cases in the Cayce files about extreme emotional-mental imbalances which are directly related to purely physical causes.  One, a young woman who was a fine artist with a lot of potential along that line, suddenly started to become very imbalanced emotionally and mentally, and nobody knew why.   She got a reading, and said that an impacted tooth was pressing on a nerve, and this was basically causing this problem.   His guides said where to fix this, the advice was followed, and voila, she was completely healed and returned to normality.  She was in a mental institution and released.  All documented with signed affidavits.

 Another man--a loving and gentle family man, suddenly turned violent on his family, and was committed.  Somebody got a reading for him, and was told that he had fell prior to his complete change in attitude, and that certain important nerves connecting to his spinal system were being severely impinged (resulting from the fall and back accident), and that this was what was primarily causing this major emotional imbalance..yet it was not emotional, mental or spiritual in nature or cause, but rather purely physical.  
 E.C.'s guides recommended specific areas of his spine to be worked on, and again, he was returned to normalcy.  

Do you take such factors into consideration, or is it purely a black and white subject to you, that all people who are depressed and/or extremely emotionally-mentally imbalanced are so because of psychological and/or spiritual reasons?  

 Also consider this Don, before Helen wrote ACIM she was more or less a respected psychologist, someone with a good and solid education.  She was probably well respected from societiy's viewpoint, accepted, and held in high regard.  

No doubt when people found out that she wrote this book, how and why she wrote it, no doubt she received a lot of negativity from others--particularly her yuppish peers.  It's not unreasonable to assume that she went through a lot of black listing, judgmental criticism, and general testing and ridicule that one might expect in a largely skeptical, close minded, and dogmatic America, especially during the time that she had written and published this book.   At the very least, i doubt that she received much overt support.  

 This can take its toll on a person, especially a person who has otherwise, heavily invested themselves in the social structure and paradigms of "respected society".   Imagine if say tomorrow, every church person who knew you, suddenly knew about all your "weird" ideas, your interests in Swedenborg, your research into various psychics, etc.    I may be wrong, but i'm guessing its more than likely that if the majority of those who knew you, knew all of this stuff about you and your somewhat unconventional side, you too might feel rejection, some disapointment.  

 Yet the "new age" is stronger than its ever been, but transport yourself, your views, beliefs, and unconvential ideas to her time, and just try to imagine how some of your fellow church bretheren might respond and react to you, and the possible impact that may have on your psychological state?  But times it by a factor of 10 at least, because in Helen's case, it's definitely more extreme and "out there" than in your case, your's is a "safer" position because you are still relatively well within and operating from the fold.

 Again, there is some parallel here with Cayce and his life.  Many people showed negativity of one kind or another to him, just because of what he was doing and because of its unusual nature.  He experienced a lot of rejection, judgment, criticism, and sometimes downright derision and extreme pettiness from others, and it was rather constant through his life no matter where he went.  He was kicked out of the church he had faithfully served for many years as a Sunday school teacher when they found out that he was a psychic, or more aptly when people started to take notice of him on a more national level.   Don't you think that receiving such energy from others has it's destructive effect if the person isn't fully spiritualized like a Jesus?   It can't be easy to deal with, that's for sure.

 Yet, people like Helen, like Cayce, like Monroe put their arses and reputations on the line for their beliefs and it was not easy by any means.    Being a Christian in the 20th or 21th century is a walk in the park by comparison.

 Why not some more balance and not so extreme and black and white?

There is a Buddhist belief that poison can be turned into medicine, dear Augo.

The antidote is called Love and Detachment......remember....unlock your cupboard and find them there waiting for you.

Here, I offer some, from my own home.  I have cupped my hands for you to drink from.

The waters of love are endless....unceasing....here for us all.


Ego is endlessly hungry for our thoughts and emotions to feed it.

But Ego is not us.  We are not Ego.  

None of us are Ego.  Ego does not own us.  

Become slippery as an eel....become too smooth for Ego....give Ego nothing to cling to.

Then, don't store up your Love....Give it Away.  

Love is for sharing.


Then, dearest Augo, look again in your cupboard. The Love is still there, pure, calm, still.

It is as if it was always there, your Love, and so it Is.


love, blink  

First of all, I can't say what the absolute truth on the matter is, but here are some thoughts.

I find it hard to believe that Jesus would actually choose this approach to pass on information.
Even if he did, I doubt that he would choose a woman who had no interest in him.

Considering how hard it is to receive spirit communication, I doubt that a person with no spiritual background could receive this many words from a spirit who exists at the level of Jesus Christ.

The 365 day course is really questionable. Would Jesus actually take a new age one course fits all approach?

Would Jesus really dictate something such as a teacher's manuel?

The way the teaching is presented in ACIM isn't anything like the way Jesus' teaching are presented in the Gospels. What happened to the parables? What is this attonement, miracle, ego attacks phraseology that is used over and over again.

Regarding over and over again, if Jesus did channel information to a person, would he do so for pages and pages while basically repeating the same thing over and over again? This could have a brainwashing effect. I would think that he would be more succinct and discuss a number of subjects.

The course seems like Vendanta mixed with a little bit of Fruedian psychology and Christian terminology. I wonder if Jesus would really teach in such a way.

I've read that some people read the course over and over again, year after year. Wouldn't they be better served if they took that time to look at themselves rather than repeating afirmations to themselves. For example, take the afirmation, "The World you see isn't real." There could be some value in saying this, but going by my extensive experience with similar Vendanta like teachings, unless a person puts in the effort to get over the psyschological attachments that bind he or she, he or she won't be able to realize this to a degree that is life transforming.

Jesus was a teacher for the masses. "The World you see isn't real" is hardly an approach for the masses.

If this course is a vehicle for enlightenment, then where are all the enlightened students. Mariane Williamson? I watched a video of one of her talks, and she was hardly enlightened. She seemed like a typical motivational speaker. That man who refers to himself as master teacher? Doubtful, considering the cases of abuse that are part of his group, the brainwashed look I saw in the eyes of some of his followers, and one statement of his which stood out, I can't remember the exact words, "if you can't rediscover your true self, surrender to me." Surrender to him? Why not surrender to God, Jesus and the holy spirit if you're going to surrender?

I could go on, but I'll switch to the messages I've received from my spirit guidance.

Like Ahso the course would cause me to click out when I first started to read it (I didn't finish doing so). I felt like I was being brainwashed. One night I had a dream where I was back with the cult I used to belong to. At the end of the dream a man shook me vigorously. Why did you do it? Why did you allow yourself to be brainwashed again? He was talking about ACIM.

A part of my job is proofreading legal documents. When I make corrections I make them with red ink. I was shown an image where four pages were taken out of the course. These pages had lots of red writing on them.

One time while meditating I wondered which book represents the teachings of Jesus the best. First in the dark, I was shown the cover of ACIM, but it stayed in the backgroud until it moved into the darkness and out of view. Next the Holy Bible was brought up into my view, more completely than ACIM. It "wasn't" brought back into the darkness.

One evening I was shown the back of ACIM two times. I would think that if the book was being supported, I would've been shown the front cover.

Another message was, "drop it, it make the ego bigger." Considering how the course talks about the ego over and over again without explaining how to overcome it, this statement makes sense.

I've received a few other messages that weren't supportive. I can't recall receiving any that were supportive.

It is important to not make the mistake of believing that something is genuine, simply because it contains words that sound flowery and are sometimes thought provoking. If a person is going to try to sell something to others, he or she will make a point of finding a way to keep people attentive.

Sometimes my guidance will have a song pop into my head in order to make a point. One day I asked Jesus what is the motivation behind this book. I didn't see nor hear Jesus after asking this question, so I can't say for certain if it was him who answered, but the song "money makes the World go round" popped into my mind.

"I ask Jesus for forgiveness if the course does in fact come from him, but so much has told me that it doesn't.  For now I won't read it, until Jesus himself tells me that it does.

Rondele:

I can't say for certain what the motivation behind the course is. Some people have profited---monitarily that is.  The book does seem to create a schism between those who believe in it and those who don't. Jesus would be aware that such a thing would happen. Would he want to take such a risk?

I don't mean to deny the growth that Alysia experienced while reading the course. When I was with a cult I experienced spiritual growth despite the fact that the guru in charge was a fraud. This was because growth is what I sought. Sure he made some statements that were true. You don't have to be a master to say things that sound true. The countless phoney teachers that exist prove this point.

rondele wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 2:01pm: