Conversation Board - Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forgiven

DaBears

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 254

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #45 - Mar 18^th, 2007 at 11:31pm

LaffingRain wrote on Mar 18^th, 2007 at 8:29pm:

DaBears wrote on Mar 18^th, 2007 at 7:50pm:

Back to the topic, why would there be an unforgiveable sin, when hell is not eternal?

maybe because all suffering stems from a heavy load of guilt and some just can't bear the guilt and so we call this hell. remember we are going from the premise that you have to forgive yourself your misdeeds in order to get out of hell. maybe this is so hard to do for some that they require lots of assistance and get locked into the guilt and it's like having tar stuck on your soul.
I have heard of rare instances where the realization of what has been done has caused so much suffering that this one would be recycled in painless manner, or unredeemable; perhaps because they enjoyed so much a playground of slaughter they were in...
theres two types of sin or error which cause guilt and suffering:
1) unintentional harm to life, from ignorance, or ignoring the love your neighbor concept:
2) base, primal selfish intentional harm, such as serial killers would perform. This would be construed as having the "intent." having the intent means they took a perverse pleasure out of harming life, whereas the other type of error or sin had no pleasure in their misdeeds and thought it was the right thing to do.

or you might say those in the intentional category, which you must admit are rare considering our large population, you could say these others knew what they were doing was wrong, yet went right ahead and did it. these would be cloistered upon death and when their sin or guilt was provided to them to hear the crys of those injured upon their own persons, they might not be able to face up to guilt and opt out, if they even have that choice. I don't know that they would have a choice if there was no mercy or compassion in their heart at all.

but it's supposed to be so rare, and I don't go into those hells for exploration purposes, as I never considered I needed to go take a look. the ones I retrieve who are criminals always have the spark of divinity in them and these are easy retrievals.
matter of fact I never met a criminal that I didn't like, some of them are like robin hoods in disguise. they think they are right, but we're not the judges except on this earth, we are the judge and jury, not on the inner planes..thats a higher order we can only conjecture on. The guilt is in everyone of us though, to some degree, we may feel separated from our creator here, and this sets up automatically that we must have done something wrong to find ourselves in a flesh and blood body where we struggle and strive just to get back to god. We can reach god consciousness here, a sense of no separation from god, or all that is, or our completed tasks done. we can, because we have our avatars and teachers who showed us that we can.

love to you, such an enquiring young man! my goodness, I love to see you here. alysia

Thanks for your feedback! Yes, all we need to do in this life and the next is to forgive ourselves and move on... Because God never gives up on us..

Back to top

IP Logged

DocM

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 2168

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #46 - Mar 18^th, 2007 at 11:35pm

Don,

The bigger point is that hells are levels of consciousness that the hellbound gravitate toward. Swedenborg says that when the outer nature is taken away, the inner nature, must assert itself. Then the concept of "like attracts like" causes like souls to gravitate toward their mutual destination. The conscious thought of those trapped in Bruce's "Max Hell," brought the sadists there together. Created scenarios that played out again and again.

You seem to be unhappy that many on the board believe that man creates his own hell, and not God directly. My own take on this is that all sources (NDEs, mediums, etc.) seem to concur that punishment is not meted out by a divine entity, rather it is our own consciousness/spirit which judges itself, and gravitates toward other like minded souls. I know you are aware of the preponderance of the evidence of this.

So we judge ourselves, and when pretense is stripped from us with our outer nature, some discarnate humans will, unfortunately go to a hellish plane. Some, like Howard Storm ask for divine intervention and are rescued. However, there does not seem to be a discarnate independent entity at heaven's gate judging us separate from our own true nature/tendencies.

As to whether God/Angels/discarnate man created the hells - since the concept of God is not anthropomorphic as Brendan states, but a totality of everything, I am sure that one can say that God created the physical plane, the heavens and the hells. I should correct myself in saying this. However, since we have free will and appear to judge ourselves - our future destinations, however brief or long they be, seem to be determined by our inner nature at the time of death, with our express approval.

M

Back to top

IP Logged

DaBears

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 254

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #47 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 12:08am

DaBears wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 12:05am:

[quote author=DocM link=1173987821/45#46 date=1174275341]Don,

The bigger point is that hells are levels of consciousness that the hellbound gravitate toward. Swedenborg says that when the outer nature is taken away, the inner nature, must assert itself. Then the concept of "like attracts like" causes like souls to gravitate toward their mutual destination. The conscious thought of those trapped in Bruce's "Max Hell," brought the sadists there together. Created scenarios that played out again and again.

You seem to be unhappy that many on the board believe that man creates his own hell, and not God directly. My own take on this is that all sources (NDEs, mediums, etc.) seem to concur that punishment is not meted out by a divine entity, rather it is our own consciousness/spirit which judges itself, and gravitates toward other like minded souls. I know you are aware of the preponderance of the evidence of this.

So we judge ourselves, and when pretense is stripped from us with our outer nature, some discarnate humans will, unfortunately go to a hellish plane. Some, like Howard Storm ask for divine intervention and are rescued. However, there does not seem to be a discarnate independent entity at heaven's gate judging us separate from our own true nature/tendencies.

As to whether God/Angels/discarnate man created the hells - since the concept of God is not anthropomorphic as Brendan states, but a totality of everything, I am sure that one can say that God created the physical plane, the heavens and the hells. I should correct myself in saying this. However, since we have free will and appear to judge ourselves - our future destinations, however brief or long they be, seem to be determined by our inner nature at the time of death, with our express approval.

M

If Hell is real and all things were made for God’s pleasure (Rev. 4:11), is it conceivable that God would derive pleasure from seeing those He created endlessly tortured? God says He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ez. 33:11).

If Hell is a real place of endless torment, and God didn’t want anyone to end up there, why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve and end the long terrible chain of misery that passed to their offspring before it began? After all, the Scriptures say that all died because of Adam. (Rom. 5:18)

If Hell is real, if God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them? Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

If Hell is real, if you had sufficient power would you not deliver all men from sin? If God would save all men, but cannot, is He infinite in power?

If Hell is real, and God can save all men, but will not, is He infinite in goodness and mercy?

If Hell is real, since God will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3 KJV), does that mean God's power is not strong enough to have His will fulfilled?

If Hell is real and Jesus teaches us to forgive seventy times seven and yet He Himself will never offer forgiveness to anyone after they die, does that not make Him a hypocrite?

If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings forever, doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger will come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)

If Hell is real and God only loves those who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17). After all, billions of people have been born and died on this earth without a chance to ever hear the name of Jesus, the “only name under heaven by which men may be saved.”

If there is a Hell and all who have sinned are destined to go there (which is everyone) unless they figure out how to avoid it, does that not consign all aborted babies and non-Christian children to Hell? (While some denominations teach a so-called "age of accountability," it is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is just some people's way of trying to make God more humane than the Hell teaching makes Him out to be).

If Hell is real, does that mean that motherly love is more powerful and enduring than God's love? Do you know of normal parents who would endlessly torment most of their kids? Why do we believe our heavenly Father, who is millions of times more loving than all of us combined, could do such an evil, wicked thing?

If Hell is real, why does the human spirit writhe under the horror of wars and prison camps, torture chambers and dictators? How can we judge these things as wrong, if Hell is real? After all, Hell far eclipses these earthly torments which came from the most sinful and beastly part of humanity. We say God is grieved by man’s violence and disregard for life, and yet believe that He Himself enforces the same principles for all eternity!

Hell was never created by GOD! Hell is an illusion created by our subconscious minds! End of story.. Don't be blinded by dogmatic religion anymore.. You have a brain use it !

Also, great post DocM!

Back to top

IP Logged

DaBears

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 254

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #48 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 12:12am

If Hell is real, why didn’t God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was death--not “eternal life” in fire and brimstone.

If Hell is real, why wasn’t Cain warned about it, or Sodom and Gomorrah, or any of those who committed the earliest recorded “sins?”

If Hell is real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws, ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and cursings in this lifetime.

If Hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the Bible? Many nations surrounding Israel in the Old Testament believed in Hell-like punishment in the afterlife, for they served bloodthirsty and evil “gods,” while Israel simply taught the grave (sheol) and a hope of a resurrection. If Hell is real, why was the revelation of it first given to pagan nations, instead of God’s covenant people? Did God expect Israel to learn about the afterlife from the Pagan Gentiles? If so, why did He repeatedly warn Israel to not learn of their ways?

If Hell is real, why did God tell the Jews that burning their children alive in the fire to the false god Molech, (in the valley of Gehenna) was so detestable to Him? God said that such a thing “never even entered His mind” (Jer. 32:35). How could God say such a thing to Israel, if He has plans to burn alive a good majority of His own creation in a spiritual and eternal Gehenna of His own making?

Back to top

IP Logged

Berserk

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 979
Gender: male

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #49 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 12:17am

Matt and DsBears,

I never claimed that God creates the suffering and torture. I merely pointed out the New Age presumption of claiming that the residents create their own hell. I pointed out ways that this claim must be nuanced. The bottom line is this: you are pontificating about a subject you can have no way of grasping. And as I said, some channeled and astral sources plausibly insist that residents are incapable of creating the major features of the landscape they must all share. Does God or the angels create it? I don't know, but neither do you. And as I mentioned, NDEs report the monitoring role of angelic presences undetected by the local reisdents.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged

juditha Ex Member	Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg Reply #50 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 8:03am Hi Love to you all As I walked towards the spirit land, I was with my saviour, holding his hand, I looked into his beautiful eyes, my tears began to fall, From feeling the love from our beautiful Jesus, He so freely gives to us all. Love and God bless Love Juditha
Back to top	« Last Edit: Mar 19^th, 2007 at 7:53pm by N/A » IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #51 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:36am

Dude:

This is for you to decide. I had the dream, and I wrote what came to me. It's between you and Christ.

I Am Dude wrote on Mar 16^th, 2007 at 8:27pm:

Recoverer. Nice dream! It made me laugh.

I don't think it matters whether I believe in the physical incarnation of Jesus. Why do you?
I have accepted his spiritual existence and his love. Is that not enough for you? Watch your back, you may find some snowballs coming your way! (just kidding!)

Back to top

IP Logged

juditha

Ex Member

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #52 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 2:22pm

Hi OOBD You say about Jesus that you beleive but you dont seem to want to know about him and Jesus of Nazareth is not a myth. Undecided

I read Recoverers dream and i feel that is the sort of thing you would do is throw a snowball in the mayors face.

Jesus loves and he did walk upon this earth,i think if you was there in a past life at the cruxifiction,you were one of them that shouted for Barrabus and Chumley was standing next to you,doing the same. Roll Eyes

Love and God bless Love Juditha

Back to top

IP Logged

DaBears

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 254

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #53 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 2:49pm

recoverer wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:36am:

Dude:

This is for you to decide. I had the dream, and I wrote what came to me. It's between you and Christ.

I Am Dude wrote on Mar 16^th, 2007 at 8:27pm:

Recoverer. Nice dream! It made me laugh.

I don't think it matters whether I believe in the physical incarnation of Jesus. Why do you?
I have accepted his spiritual existence and his love. Is that not enough for you? Watch your back, you may find some snowballs coming your way! (just kidding!)

Outofbodydude, you don't believe in Jesus?? Why not? Just curious..

Back to top

IP Logged

blink

Ex Member

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #54 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 4:50pm

I really don't understand why some people are so interested in Dude's specific interpretation of his experience of Jesus' love....and what I see as a sort of compulsive doubting of his integrity in some way.

This is why people don't want to share their private spiritual experiences sometimes...because they are then sometimes pressured to act or speak in a certain way to conform with others' expectations.

Dude has been pretty good humored about this but it seems to me that he shared with all of us his simple, and personally moving, experience of Love (with a capital L), which he experienced while making his private request of the One so many adore.....

Why is that not enough for everyone? He has asked you that question himself.....

Why should he attempt to convince everyone of the depth of his experience, or claim to have some kind of change of personality or belief systems overnight? I don't think he has to do that, and I don't think he will.

He shared his experience.....that's enough for me.....if he wants to learn more about Jesus in some different ways then he will, in his own time and in his own way. He's on his own path. We can share some of the same views on our hike together, but we'll all experience them in our own times and our own ways.

Not to offend anyone here, because I know you all mean well...but, well.....just my 2 cents. I think that we are all part of this forum for a reason. Love is love no matter how you spell it....Jesus, Buddha, mother, father, sister, brother, man, woman, friend, lover. What difference does it make?

It is all the same.

love, blink

Back to top

IP Logged

I Am Dude Super Member Offline Posts: 1462 Gender:	Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg Reply #55 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 6:02pm Yea fools. Get off my back!!!
Back to top	But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. IP Logged

DaBears Senior Member Offline Posts: 254	Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg Reply #56 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 7:09pm I Am Dude wrote on Mar 19^th, 2007 at 6:02pm: Yea fools. Get off my back!!! LOL sorry man I was just curious..
Back to top	IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg
Reply #57 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:05pm

haha! Dude, you are a treasure here whether u know it or not..I think u know it Wink

listen, I have a complaint Huh

I never seen or felt JC. so hummph. unless...DP is JC in disguise..well he could be a close friend..travel buddies? fishing buddies? haha!

blasphemy? not if we are all ONE!!!!! or neighboring discs..neighboring planets? u are all invited for tea and crumphets if ever in my part of town.

I don't care where you wandered in from...

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

DocM Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 2168	Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg Reply #58 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:12pm I've never had a crumpet that I know of, but I would take you up on that offer. Doc
Back to top	IP Logged

LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: Blasphemy against the holy spirit cant be forg Reply #59 - Mar 19^th, 2007 at 11:20pm ok the teapot is always warm on the stove Doc. love, alysia
Back to top	Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness IP Logged