Classic Chumley !!!

Hallehluya!!!

Finally someone preaches the truth about the New Age Ghetto!

hahaha.

Hi Don I miss you.

I realize that focus 27 is most likely a belief system territory. 

However, I believe it greatly differs from other bst's.  Why?  Because those in other bst's usually think they will be there forever, or are not able to escape unless they are retrieved.  Of course there are exceptions.  However, it is well known that focus 27 is only a temporary place of residence for newly deceased. 

Also, rather than simply sitting in church reading the bible for eternety, or being emotionally torchered for several lifespans, which usually goes on in the hollow heavens and hells, actual progress takes place in focus 27.  Unfullfilled desires and dreams are able to manifest and be lived in focus 27.  Anything your mind can conceive will come true.  This is an excellent way to rid yourself of unneccessary and hindering baggage picked up during our physical lives. 

Mostly all of our material, and even unmaterial needs are able to be satisfied in focus 27.  Imagine the weight being lifted off of your shoulders after doing everything you have ever wanted to do during your life on earth.  All this comes true in focus 27.  What a great place!  And once again, it is known that this is not a permanant place.  We can leave at any time with our own free will once we are ready to explore what lies beyond.  Of course, where a person goes from this point is a personal choice.  It is made known to those in focus 27 that they may stay for as long as they like, and yet they may leave at any time.

Therefore, focus 27 cannot be categorized in the same group as most other hollow heavens.

Well said, Dude.  Now prepare to do battle on the astralpulse religion section I just discovered!  Nah, I'm just kidding.  I too repost material on other websites and I deserved your comments.  What I'm actually thinking of posting there is the evidence that Jesus and the Old Testament prophets would actually agree with some of your critique about biblical violence and severe penalties.

[Spooky:] "Don, even if I once found myself in heaven, I'll look out for "true" retrievers "who would be able to carry me into an even better heaven! So if you come across me then, and you can impress me with some nice radiation or so you'll have a good chance to pull me out into the real bliss!"
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Both witty and profound, Spooky.  But maybe you and I should sign a mutual retrieval pact, just in case I'm unwittingly confined to a spirit plane reserved for those with unconscious personal delusions of grandeur!  In our own way, we are all stuck in our current belief system.  We just need to humbly admit this and hold our beliefs passionately but provisionally--passionately because only then can our beliefs be a tool of ever active love and service, and provisionally in the sense that we are always looking to upgrade our beliefs from a higher perspective that makes even more sense of the ambiguities of our quest.  

Don

[Chumley:] "Heck, Don... I'd've thought you'd have had the "New Agers" you depise so much, in "Hell" being sodomized by demons with barbed, red-hot
whaling harpoons, while being constantly forced to watch reruns of "Barney" (as the theme song from "Jeopardy" eternally repeats on "Hell's" Muzak system) all the while screeching in agony as the blood boils, hot as molten steel, inside their scalded arteries... while you and your new-found buddies...look on from "Heaven" chortling and chuckling and having a swell time (in between rounds of choir practice, self-flagellation, tiddly-winks, and *clean* knock-knock jokes...
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Well, all that might initially be great fun to watch, but you need to know one thing about me, Chumley.   Before I came up with "Berserk" as my handle, I was known as "Deadworm" on New Age sites.  At the time I wanted a handle that sounded both pseudo-humble and gross without being in excessively poor taste.  I later opted for "Berserk" only because, being Swedish, I wanted to identify myself with my pillaging Viking ancestry.  So endless knock-knock jokes would be OK, but not if they were "clean."   Fortunately, the principle of like attracts like would ensure that in my Heaven the knock-knock jokes would be gross.  In your scenario,  I'd have to watch the TV reruns too just to get to the exciting torture and that would bore me as much as the hellbound New Agers.  So I'd prefer the mischief of tricking New Agers into succumbing to my retrieval efforts.  I'd lead them to believe they could reincarnate as sex symbols on Earth.  After I lured them from their Hollow Heaven, they would find to their horror that I was consigning them eternally to the tenor section of my Heaven's Gregorian chant choir.  That fate would be particularly delicious to me if I knew that on earth they could only tolerate heavy metal music.
 
"[Chumley:] "Instead, you've got 'em in a "Hollow Heaven."...If you are correct, there are only BSTs for ALL of us, after death...If so, in what way is YOUR Heaven a better place, than that of the New Agers? Or anyone else's "Hollow Heaven"?"
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Good question! How could Chumley tell if he was in the REAL Heaven?   Well, if you were forced to grovel to God and the saints and were forced, as an act of penance, to crawl to church over broken glass, that might be a sign that a better Heaven was available somewhere.  But if you were retrieved, how would you know that the next Heaven was an upgrade?  I don't think you could tell from the layout.  New Agers seem to feel that if they astrally visit a realm with a Welcoming Center, a Healing Center, and a Library, they have arrived in Focus 27.   As if you just fall flatass with a loud thud into the Hollow Heavens with no welcoming facilities!  As if denizens of Hollow Heavens would need no Healing Center for their initial adjustment period!   As if they would lack a library or its equivalent full of books that reinforce their narrow perspectives!  No, from my research there are two better criteria for distinguishing the real heavens: (1) NDE visitors describe residents of the real Heavens as brighter than our sun, though their appearance does not hurt the visitor's astral eyes.
(2) The real Heavens radiate an obvious upgrade in pure unconditional love.  

OK, Chumley, before you have a cow and rant against the prospect of being imprisoned with a bunch of wussy goodie two-shoes, consider what the Christian definition of agape love really is.  Quite simply, to love you means that in my presence you expeirence yourself as both loveable and capable.  Capable of what, you ask?  Well, that's where the principle of like attracts like kicks in.  Your "true" Heaven would be devoid of saintly wusses, perhaps a Heaven of loving but jaded miltary veterans.  

But as I've noted before, I doubt that BST is the right image for afterlife levels.  I think our core desires are more indicative of our progress towards PUL than our beliefs and logically prior to them  The rich mix of our core desires often remains after new facts force us to alter our beliefs.  So I like to think of the Heavens and Hells as CDTs (Core Desire Territories).  And I think this modification helps remove the contradictions between the Monroe-Moen model and the models espoused by other astral adepts.

Don

Chum and Don,

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA INTO INFINITY AND BEYOND.....

You two have COMPLETELY cracked me up and simultaneously taken the stick out of my proverbial you know what....

and....pretty good conclusions all around regarding what the heck these bizarre BST's are all about.....

but I do intensely hope that the light shines gently on each of us wherever we go.

later, dudes!     blink off

ES (Swedenborg) described literally innumerable heavenly societies, and hellish societies.  That leaves open many possible roads to enlightenment, as well as the notion that we may move from one society (group of like minded individuals CBTs as Don said) to another.

Don's insults and jibes are likely seen by him as a method to shake New Agers out of their rote complacency - however, others may see his remarks as being unloving and hurtful.  Don, in a life review, do you think, if you saw the negative reaction from board members to the barbs and jibes, along with the positive that you would be "ok" with it all?  I'm not sure how I'd feel.  Perhaps yours is a more tough-love heavenly society.  

I think it is truly comical to think of New Agers in focus 27 performing retrievals on Christian BSTs, and then Christians performing retrievals back on New Agers.  Could this occur?  Is one man's belief system territory another's true heaven?

Try as we might to impose our own interpretation and likes/dislikes, we will intuitively know the path to God, and God's love.  Though there may be different societies striving to reach the same goal, the end point, that is getting closer to love and the unity of all things will be waiting for each of us.  Infinite variety implies free will.  So I venture to say that like ES says, we will have choices among many societies/groups of like-mined souls.  As above, so below.  

Matthew

DocM wrote on Mar 6^th, 2007 at 3:27pm:


Could it be we are all arguing over the truth when there is no real truth just perspective? 
I've heard channelled information that the only universal truth is free choice and the rest is just different perspectives of judgement. But this is just the perspective I have formed from my own research and experiences and they can't be ascribed to you.