hi, this is similar to Kurt Leland's book Otherwhere. you might like that book. love, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2007 at 12:20am:

Alright, cool I'll check it out.. Thanks!

Da Bears, the fact that you are conscious of your fears shows your level of development is coming along. the next step is very simple. starting as far back as you can go, review your life to see if you created harm. go back to those others, where you think you need to straighten something out, wherever you find an uneasy feeling. if you cannot find them in your physical life, they are there in the nonphysical realm. Express your gratitude for these others in your life and if you need to say you're sorry, then do it at once.

in this way, you create freedom in the afterlife for yourself and need not fear bringing hellish thoughts into that future place. love, alysia

lol, DaBears, you're so young yet. you haven't done anything regretful yet, cussing and porn and lying sounds like a normal young man to me. you must have some traditional ideas of what hell is, and you're wrong. hell is here, we walk thru the fires now. if we learn PUL here we slide into all our bases home free. gets a little muddy though.
I think you'll be just fine. sometimes forgiveness is the only tool we have to get into a good place. you already seem to know the secret. You're a little bit amazing to me, considering your age.

yes we judge ourselves the most harshly and this will set up a hell inside. unless u can forgive yourself by thinking it through rather than avoiding the thinking part.

there may be a few people u can meet, they have no, what we call conscious, like you have. these are sad cases and u find them usually in jail. they may need your light the most. you won't have to deal with this until you are more prepared, and maybe not at all. keep your fresh approach and enjoy yourself. this person you are now, will only experience this life once although you will always be you.
I am not making a prediction. I just finished with my life review early and trying to pass on a little what I learned.
love, alysia

ricktimet wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 12:47pm:

Thank you for your help! Yeah, I'm glad that I'm young, so I have a long time to get this phobia out of my mind! I will get his study course sometime soon hopefully!!

Yeah, if they would have told us the truth from the start I wouldn't be in this mess! I am glad I am out of my religion and know the truth now! Catholicism is fear based and preaches about a wrathful God, which I totally don't agree with!!

Yes, that verse in the bible rings with truth for sure!!
peace and pray for me k??   Thanks my name is Alex Wolf

tmerc8 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 2:52pm:

Yes, it is very true about them how they preach hell fire and damnation.. Than on the other hand they preach a God of love and what not... It's like is this God of theirs a schizophrenic God or what?? And the Christian God to me seems to be a sadistic monster as well, by throwing people to burn in hell, not just burn in there but for eternity!! It is so ridiculous it makes me laugh... Oh well, they will see the true Loving God in the afterlife which is not judgemental by any means !!

Good morn cosmic. thanks for your cheer. so I was thinking about Alex here, he has been making me smile a lot to see him here and there on a thread. was thinking how connected we all are these days. Alex is showing the influence of what he's picked up from his childhood, but I think it's more than that. He has dropped a couple of bombs here and there which struck me odd but refreshing of what he's learning.
these youngsters that started to incarnate during the 80's up to now will be very helpful for the shift in consciousness is my thought, as they pull wisdom out of us.

love, alysia

DaBears wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2007 at 3:20pm:

     



DA BEARS -----Sweetie, lets keep it simple......forget about Hell.....All you have to know and believe and practice from this day on is LOVE.....love yourself, love your neighbors, love everybody regardless of who or what they are.......The whole kingdom of Heaven is unconditional LOVE----GOD IS LOVE...The Angels are LOVE, the whole spiritworld is LOVE......you are LOVE....simple as that.....

DaBears wrote on Feb 25^th, 2007 at 10:56pm:


Hey thanks for your kind words! I will start to think more about that. I will try to think only postive things here on out.. You are right it is all about just LOVE in general.. That is the key to heaven. I just need to keep on thinking that God loves me unconditionally and my angels are here to help me as  well! [/quote]



You "got it" sweetie.....Just remember to keep things simple..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" & LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.. & YES, your Angels are around you all the time & all you need to do is ask & they will be there for you.....with God's permission--all things are possible.....Love, Light & Peace

In my view, hell is any kind of embodied/non-embodied existence where suffering is experienced. Thus, this world, for example, can also be qualified as hell: a small child experiences lots of pains and discomforts that he/she cannot properly express; a teen experiences lots of disillusions with various aspects of life; an adult suffers broken love, marriages, loss of loved ones, wars, belief system crashes, etc.; an elderly person suffers diseases, loneliness, confusion, poverty, and the pains of dying...

During my holotropic breathwork experience, I got acquainted with disembodied states of suffering. These are no longer personal, brain and rational mind are not functioning to develop any kind of strategy to avoid the suffering or to ask for help. There is no reference point (sufferer), but simply impersonal suffering which occupies all space and all time. Many kinds of personal suffering which we experience here are much less painful than those impersonal ones. Once again, the main problem with "egoless" suffering is that it is not localized, so there is no region with suffering as opposed to some other region with less or no suffering, but suffering is equally dispersed everywhere, so there is no escape because there is no ego which could do the escape, neither the region where to escape.

Ego and rational thinking are rare gifts which allow to create patches of relative happiness in an infinite ocean of pain.
It's really amazing, how many people do not appreciate these things, such as a simple fact of being able to move and communicate... One has to experience in order to compare...

Aunt Clair wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2007 at 7:10am:

So, there is a lake of fire hell too?

Aunt Clair wrote on Apr 7^th, 2007 at 5:41am:

That makes me ill to think people suffer in these hells that they have created by their subconscious minds...

Aunt Clair wrote on Apr 7^th, 2007 at 5:41am:




It might seem like that if you've only looked at pictures or read books about Buddhism. But in practice.... there are no demons or hells from a non-dual perspective. Not to say that relative truth isn't real for those that experience it; you can experience ANYTHING in a dream. But ultimate truth (according to my experience/tradition) doesn't contain demons or hells. EVERYTHING comes from your own awareness.  There is nothing else.

It can't be put into words or pictures, so I'm left not making sense.

Still.... I love you.

We are not two.

Tim F.

We rarely saw fire . Most of the Hell realms we were lead to were dark and lower in vibration but the spirits there were only constrained by their own vibration . Their own fears , angst , griefs and rages constrained them and nothing else . It is like laffingrain said they were there only by  freewill . In soul rescue , some cannot see us some can . When they can see and hear a soul rescuer or another spirit in Hels or an angel , then they can be reached and rescued . When they lift their vibration they are free . Focusing on love , light , Godhead , angels or service for others etc will easily lift the vibration in these areas .

LaffingRain wrote on Apr 8^th, 2007 at 11:36pm:

Thank you for your great words of wisdom! I will try your way of thinking about fire as a symbol of something else.

Yeah, I need to stop freaking myself out about this.. The only reason I do is because I feel for those people who are in this type of hell.. I think to much about it..

You are right about how I am coping with this by talking aloud to you great people about this! It does make me feel more secure and comfortable.

Also, I know what's in the past is in the past and God has already forgave me and forgotten about it.. Just like he/she/it forgives me all the time because sins are illusions that may us feeel like we are seperated from God.. But we never are... I know I'll go to a decent vibrational afterlife level because I try to see the good in everyone.. Plus, I have forgiven everyone that has harmed me and even these group of guys who jumped me for no reason.. Plus, I like to help others out.. Also, I don't like drama.. Yes, I have my so called evil to me.. But don't we all..

Sorry for rambling..

peace and thanks again laffingrain!! You are a swweet lady!!

Based upon a recent experice of mine, this subject becomes very interesting.  The short story is that fear makes visiting a hell far, far worse and I would advise against it.  If you take the experience with the "armor of observation", then visiting hell can be very educational.  Keep your heart filled with confidence and you will be well protected.

The long story:

I have a dream where I see a constructed creek filled to the top with water.  The water makes me uneasy because I imagine many things hidden beneath it, some are good and some I may not want to deal with at this time.  I know that the water holds many things to explore, but I do not wish to become overwhelmed just yet so I take off into the void and the scene ends.

Timeless seconds later, I envision a world of lava and caves.  Before I can explore the worlds, I wake up in a lava cave strapped into a torture chair with three disordered beings off to the side where I can not see them.  I am there in that body, and yet I am not.  The beings seem more complex than just evil beings but they simply want to torture me with a heating coil that closes over my body and bakes me alive.  They bring the device down upon my body and the body feels the pain and screams but in a strange paradox, I am observing my body in main and have no hurt bothering me.  The body is taking serious damage but I do not even care because according to this dream, that body is not me.  The body is fearful and afriad of falling into the lava right under the chair but I am actually enjoying the insight I have gained from the situation and have no care about what is happening.

Waking up from the dream, I am not afraid at all since I have just learned that I can not exactly burn in hell because I do not have a body that can be tortured.

"Berserk, read up on the holographic universe and you will see why I believe hell is not eternal.. Also, it tells us that hell is a state of being..  Basically, an illusion created by the subconscious mind.. So, we all know illusions can be seen right through and people will get out of their own hells from their guides."
________________________________________________________________

DaBears, in the real Bible, the Hebrew and Greek words for "eternal" merely mean "for an indefinitely long period."   So Hell may not be eternal.  But Hell is not simply a creation of our subconscious mind and y9u have no evidence pointing in that direction.  Like the Heavens, the Hells are a shared reality already created before the new spirits arrive.   The ability of new arrivees to create new reality is limited and highly localized.  That's the cnnsensus of the astral explorers.

[DaBears:] So, I don't need to go off of what some new agers say about hell.. I go off of the truth that was added to the bible (the thirdtestament)..
___________________________________________________

The so-called Third Testament has no credibility whatsoever and is hardly an addition to the Bible.   It was channeled in Mexico in 1887.   Do you just accept any channled material uncritically if you like some its claims?   Why not step out of the New Age Ghetto briefly and read about the evil nature of some Mexican mediums?   Johanna Michaelson writes a devastating expose in her book "The Beautiful Side of Evil."  She and her family were heavily into channeling and she worked closely with a Mexican shaman who produced marvellous healing miracles.   Pachita surrounded herself with sacred symbols like crosses; so Johanna thought her healing work must be divinely inspired.  Only gradually did she realize that Pachita was an instrument of evil and when Johanna dared to explore conventional Christianity, Pachita's spirit control tried to kill her. 

DaBears, don't be a mindless cultist.  Read all sides of the important questions before you formulate your doctrines.  But why do I know you would'nt thnk of reading Johanna's book?  I hope I'm wrong!

Don

Check out www.victorzammit.com and you will see he all his proof about hell not being eternal and what not.. Plus, read his great book!
Note carefully: all knowledge/information can basically be divided into that which is scientific (or empirical, with which the scientific method is used to validate or to measure phenomena) on the one side and the unreliable subjective beliefs on the other side.

Another way of saying this is that science is “objective” – i.e. science has the substance to be independently substantiated – and all beliefs are “subjective” – beliefs do NOT have the substance to be independently substantiated and are regarded as personal beliefs. One most important problem with all beliefs (including skeptical beliefs) is that anything subjective, i.e. all religious beliefs and all skeptical beliefs, are themselves subject to complete invalidation.

The advantage of anything scientific or empirical is that given any empirical formula or principle, it can be repeated over time and space, and keeping variables constant obtains the same results. That is powerful and that is irrefutable. Where one can predict with accuracy, by way of repeating the same formula using the scientific method and obtaining the same results, it would be impossible to show that the formula is wrong.

It will follow that whenever there is an inconsistency between science (the empirical) and beliefs, inevitably, science (the empirical) prevails and will ALWAYS prevail over beliefs – even if beliefs have been around for thousands of years. It can never be any other way.

DaBears,

You reflect the same attitude I encounter with Fundamentalists when I suggest that just occasionally channeled material produces interesting insights.  They just dismsss it as demonic deception.  What I object to is putting all channeling in the same cultic box.   By the same token, DaBears, you are just as narrow-minded if you refuse to read respected works with differing viewpoints based on well-documented experiences.   So again I challenge you to read Johanna Michaelson's "The Beautiful Side of Evil" ore Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil."  Or else just stay in the New Age ghetto and read their propaganda.  You'll feel better about your quest if you infuse it with a modicum of  balance.  I have a huge New Age library, but read all sides of each issue.  

Don

P.S. I read Victor Zammit long before you did and found its articles superficial and unconvincing.   There are much better New Age advocates  than he.  The best is David Fontana.

Hey DaBears..I got a message for you this morning. I won't elaborate, just tell what I got, I think you will get it.

also I felt like we were talking this morning.   heres the message:
We are making all this up.  this thread will fade into oblivion. we will die and only our family will recall that we lived. (in most cases)

we are making up life as we go. therefore feel that freedom. therefore enjoy each day and make your day as you would have it be. we are so close to god we can breath in god. god is our breath of life. we can't miss. we are so creative, we are making all this up!

love, alysia

I know why you're here DaBears. I know you're in disguise. I know what a light you are.

The entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture--Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of "eternal punishment" on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.

The Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is "kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time." (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed changing the Greek into English.)

"Aionion," as shown above, is the singular form of the adjective of the Greek noun "aion." Many people unfamiliar with the Greek do not realize that the endings of the same word change (inflection) to indicate its mood, case, gender, etc. Therefore, "aionion" may appear with different endings. "Aionion, aioniou, aionios," for example, are all different inflections of the adjective form of the noun "aion."

The noun "aion" in Greek literature has always meant "an indeterminate period of time. It could be as short as the time Jonah spent in the belly of a fish (three days or nights), the length of a man's life, or as long as a very long age.

The Bible speaks of at least 5 "aions" and perhaps many more. If there were "aions" in the past. This must mean that each one of them have ended for they are now past! The New Testament writers spoke of "the present wicked aion" which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another "aion"-- the "aion" in which we presently live. If there are "aions" to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end.

There is a verse which says "the consummation of the aions" showing that each "aion" ends. So how can they be eternal?

There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30
There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4)
There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7)
There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40)
There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)

Plainly, the Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" cannot mean "eternal." A study into the Greek of the Biblical period and before will bear this out.

"Aionion" is the adjective of the noun "aion."

Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that "aionion" in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean "everlasting" or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time.

For example, "hourly" cannot mean "pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean "pertaining to an hour." Therefore, "aionion," the adjective form of the noun "aion" which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, "forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc) or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.

Therefore, those many Bibles which do NOT contain the teaching of everlasting punishment or Hell are true to the original languages of Greek and Hebrew and those which teach everlasting punishment or Hell are false. Scholars are just as easily subjected to the "traditions of the elders" as the rest of us. It's time to let the original Greek and Hebrew languages of the Bible break down the traditions of men. For a list of the many English translations of the Bible that do NOT contain these pagan concepts and for an article explaining why the punishment in Matthew 25:46 does NOT have to be the same length as the life spoken of in that verse, write to us (Tentmaker--118 Walnut--Hermann, MO 65041) and ask for:

Matthew 25:46 Commentary

No-Hell Bibles
-------------------------------------------
We have MANY articles and books on this single most important subject, many of which may be downloaded for free. Click the links to Books and Topics to get an overview of available materials.

This is from www.christian-universalism.com.. I definately don't just go off of new age ghetto stuff...  I've read many books on chrisitan universalism... Also, please read books on the holographic universe and tell me I don't have clue.. Anything besides God, and love is an illusion.. Hell in itself is an illusion..

"Alright, I'll check out that book and David Fontana.. Thanks for your help..  Anyways what is your belief about hell?"
___________________________________

DaBears, for me the issue is not the "eternity" of Hell.  Hell is not subject to our physical time.  The important observation is the biblical and New Age implication that God's love never permanently abandons anyone after death.   So retrievals from Hell are always possible but never coerced.   The important mystery is whether some of the hellbound are so close-minded that they are beyond redemption.  This question can never be answered theoretically or on the basis of a few astral visits.  It can only be answered by the relentless quest of loving incarnate and discarnate souls who explore and do what it takes to develop strategies to change the energetic make-up of the Hellbound to a vibration that enables their release.  Relentless lcving action, not belief is the key.

DaBears, please understand my goal here.   I am a Christian and wish everyone would become a Christian.  But many Christians are close-minded and unloving.  Churches don't turn anyone away.  For example, many Christians find incompetent advocates of evolution and then ridicule their inept arguments.   In so doing, they conveniently ignore the best biologists who really do know what they're talking about.   David Fontana's survey of afterlife evidence is far superior to anything you'll find on the internet.   He is decidedly a New Ager, but tries to be as objective as possible and is clearly open-minded enough to elude my Ghetto label.  If you progress from Fontana's "Is There an Afterlife?"  to a book of experiences outside the New Age movement, you will beel cleansed and empowered by a new sense of intellectual integrity.

Yes, read Fontana, but then read the amazing paranormal experiences in books like Johanna Michaelson's "The Beautiful Side of Evil" or Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil."  If you progrss in this way, you will be suprised by how much more confident you become in your developing spiritual discernment.  If you read Fontana, post your reactions on this site.

Don

Quote:

Sorry, for skipping over this story.. I was caught in a little debate.. I think this story says a lot right here about the ego and fear of hell.. It grips you at first until you realize there is nothing to fear not even fear itself! Nice, dream and story.. Thanks for your help!

peace