the title of this thread is why I didn't want to read it Albert. I go thru life seeing demons not there. thats straight out of Bruce's books...I might be his clone

aside from that, theres is thing DP my guide calls dark night of the soul. seems everyone tromps through it, some committ suicide or murder someone if they don't get help soon enough. during mine I called out for help and a guide came and said "now what are you doing to yourself? Do I always have to rescue you?"

then I knew for sure I may have had some influence from malicious spirits around, but the decision to break thru came with the guides words that I was back in control.
it was very oppressing but just knowing the help had arrived and was there for the asking turned me around. oh boy the rest of the night I felt so foolish. I'd reached a turning point to take charge of myself.
we do have these helpers out there who will respond in an emergency, I wish everybody knew they were there.

I've read Robert Bruce. I think he's a negative discharger, which is not bad. he has these experiences to pop the baloon of negativity...an energy that builds up and takes form. I read of how he took on a child's negative entity and suffered to do it, so I have nothing against what he says, and he does mention a story of how love transformed him. the ones who follow him are warriors. I am not wanting to be that, but I can appreciate he's doing what he does ok. on top of that he tries to interpret his experiences and its really hard to do that, so that another understands.
I think he's just like us here though, experiencing astral life through his own lenses.

demons? nah....negs?   yea, that's better. hey! I'd say this...you better quit sucking on my life prana!!!   lol....DP taught me how to make a command statement. it works.

love you guys, alysia

Thank you, Matthew.  Unfortunately, the only love I see here is for people who fall into line with the belief system of the majority of posters.  VERY, VERY conditional.  Believe what we believe, or leave.  We'll believe it or not, I hold some of the same views of self-empowerment, trust in your Higher Self, and that many of the most fearful things in life are of our own creation.  But, I also believe that I don't know everything, haven't experienced everything, and leave open the possibility that many of the things I think are true today, may not be my truths tomorrow.

The views here are too small and narrow minded for me.  This forum, it appears from an outsiders view, to have become incestuous, inbreeding with no open air or room for different beliefs.  There is a glaring intolerance here.  And, most certainly, newcomers with different ideas are made to feel very unwelcome.  Those with the most posts do not necessarily hold the most wisdom.  Particularly when they make judgements and negative statements about authors whom they clearly have not read all the works, nor spoken to in person.  Read parts of one book, make a judgement because it doesn't fall into line with your personal beliefs, and convince others that that author is negative because you know it to be true.  Yeh, that's wise.

Yes, I'm being very judgemental and calling a spade a spade.  It no longer matters to me what anyone here thinks of me, because it clearly doesn't matter to many here to show any degree of humanity or love to someone who doesn't march to your song.  I wonder if Bruce Moen has any idea how this forum appears to outsiders?  Because, there are a number of outsiders looking in who are appalled at what they've seen.

Tanja, that was beautiful, and what DK was looking for.  Unfortunately, you showed up too late.

This thread grew wings of its own, darting around like a mad sparrow.

I have not posted to this thread, because though I have my own perception on the events, I am not as aware of all of the circumstances, nor the events alluded to by DK. I journeyed in search of more information. Interestingly enough, DK offered a valuable key: she has posted more detailed information on other forums. Upon reading this, the context of her post here changed. Some of you may find these posts interestings, so I shall include them in the visitor link section in an attempt to isolate them from this post and rekindling the whole affair.

Based on what I have read so far, I can only say that DK took the matter by the horns and has continued to do so. She is a fighter and as some of you will discover upon reading the posts, the connections to your own philosphies will lit. Based on what I have seen, DK has not limited herself to one set of believes, but has chosen to find the tools she needs where she can find them.


E. 

recoverer, I can appreciate the fact that people try to help in the only way they know.  We all do that.  What I have been saying over and over is that I know this situation with DK, and that most of the things being said here show a lack of even trying to understand what she is going through.  I saw very, very few, if none, questions about her situation.  Most just assume that she is nuts, that she is looking for attention, that she won't do anything to help herself, that she just needs to think nice, positive thoughts and all of this will go away.  Where have you tried to understand something that you haven't experienced?  Where have you tried to listen without poking your belief system in the middle of everything you've said.  Where have you tried to be her friend, instead of hurling veiled insults at her situation and saying you know what's best.  (Again, the universal you.)  Did you even notice that I said that many of my beliefs are identical to the majority here?  The glaring difference is that I leave room open that there may be something I don't know, because I just haven't experienced it.  No, I don't think I'm better than anyone else.  I know I'm not.  Did you miss that part?  Did you miss the part where I said I treated DK just as she's being treated here?  Did you miss the part where I tried to express that some of the things I thought were absolute truth were shaken to the core?  I now know that "beliefs" get in the way, not only of absolute truth, but of helping someone.  

About me telling one of Robert's stories....that wasn't for DK.  Don't you think that after 9 years she's heard all the stories?  Could tell a large number from her own experiences that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up?  Is she really that naive that I could tell a story that would scare her?  Did you bother to ask her?

I know you are tired of people coming into your forum and yellling "demons!"  I'm on a forum where this has been going on for years.  Don't you think I'm just as tired of the whole thing?  But, what I'm tired of is very different from what you're tired of.  I'm tired of people assuming that they know everything.  That love and light will patch everything up and make the boogey man go away.  I'm tired of people who know nothing about either mental health or severe trauma ,from something that's other than human, laughing those in need right off a forum and then having the balls to be actually proud of it.  Mostly because I've done it.  And, I am deeply, deeply sorry for it.  I don't think ("think" not KNOW) that everything happening to DK is from an outside force.  Obviously, every single one of us can create thought forms to scare the bejesus out of ourselves.  But, listen to her.  She says she was abducted.  Physically.  And, tortured.  I don't know if it's true.  I wasn't there.  But, I leave the possibility open that something is happening that I can't make a judgement on because I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED IT.  

If someone had told me 10 years ago that I would be leaving my body and traveling to different parts of the world and galaxy, having transcendental experiences, and knowing the face of God, I would have said, "Time for the straight jacket, now".  But, they have happened to me.  I can't make them go away.  They are more real than this computer I'm on.  Knowing that, how can I judge what someone else says and say for a fact it just didn't happen?  How can you?  Particularly if you've been OBE.  Good for you if you've never encountered anything negative except your own thought forms.  I'd try to keep it that way if I were you.  But, funny thing is, that doesn't haplpen to everyone.  Neither does rape, or kidnapping, or physical torture, but are you going to tell those people that either their experiences were made up, or that they should just think about love and light and it will be fine?  What if it happens to your own child?  Are you going to tell them to think of Jesus, and now shut up because they should be over it by now?  There is no time table for healing.  And, there is no way that you have of knowing that every single belief you hold is exactly how it is.

I was an evangelical Christian a long time ago.  I knew for certain that Jesus would save me from the wrath of God and hell.  I knew it, deep down inside, without a doubt.  No one could shake that belief from me.  Well, it changed.  Just as all temporary things (including earth) change.  I don't need to be saved.  I am an eternal being who can never really be harmed.  I have no fear.  Did my truth change?  You bet it did.  Which is true?  They all "felt" true.  I knew both of those two truths.  But, I knew them at completely different times in my life.  So, I don't hang my hat on what I think I know anymore.  There's a really big chance I might be wrong.  About everything.

Tempest, you said:
There is no time table for healing.  And, there is no way that you have of knowing that every single belief you hold is exactly how it is.
----------------------------------------

You are absolutely right in these two simple statements.

It has become clear to me that you, yourself, Tempest, are in a state of pain and confusion to which each of us may have unwittingly contributed.

I will validate, at this moment, that you have your truth, today, as you see it. It is yours. You own it.  

I accept this truth as yours, and I now hold and will hold you in my loving thoughts for the rest of this entire day so that you may be released from the pain that you carry on behalf of those who suffer in this world.

I hear the cry of your heart...I echo it...I send you love.

love, blink

Tempest, you said:
I'm not sure where you are getting that I'm confused.  I became clear and reached enlightenment when I was able to drop beliefs and the need to put everything in a "right" or "wrong" box.  I don't have any "truths".  I have ideas about how things work, but I'm not married to them.  My reality is that every reality is of value.   I don't believe in right or wrong.  I only believe in experience, and that I exist.  I exist in many forms.  Some I'm aware of, some I'm not.  The one and only abiding truth that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, is that there is nothing that is not Source.  And, that makes everything ok in my book.


So....Tempest....what, at this moment, is lacking?

love, blink

Patty, hi

I hear you and I understand.  As Blink heard you in her love.  

In first post under this topic I spoke about luciferic (and ahrimen) influences in the astral world.  I have studied this subject for many years and I do not write lightly about these forces; I never write about something I do not understand and if I do not understand I ask.  I do not claim to say I know everything I don't.  I have learnt a great deal from the experienced members here.  I understand these forces though because I have experienced them in the astral realm.

I have been there a good few times and it is a location I constantly make a conscious effort to avoid.  It is a terrible realm, it is degrading and frightening.  I also see 'as above, so below'  these forces working in manifestation in the world, lack of love being a prime example. One does not have to venture into the dark realms to see these forces one can see them below.  

The power of Christ is here for this reason.  The people who understand the power of Christ are initiated into understanding how these dark realms operate and are not 'kidnapped' by false promises of eternal free life only to find they are being used as pawns.  Do not underestimate the power of Christ and do not dismiss the importance of this power.  

Lets us look at this equation;

C&E = RL :  consciousness & energy = reality of location.  The degree of your consciousness is the reality of your location in the spritual realms.  If it is a weak consciousness with no power or protection the location will be in the lower realms.

CC&E = RL : Christ consciousness & energy (or Ego) = reality of location.  Concentrating on the power of Christ will protect a soul, give it strength, wisdom, understanding, love and joy, a spirit of a safe and happy community and lift the consciousness out of the lower realms into realms of truth and love.

The importance of the second location, Christ consciousness is it is within - one becomes spiritualised in Christ etheric body - no-one can take it away from you.  You are free.

The danger of the first location, the lower astral realms, as DK pointed out - is it is not within - consciousness is without, on the outside, open to control by the above mentioned forces.

It was for this reason God sent his Son to us.  For Christ is the way and he is the truth.  There is only one truth and it does not lie or misled you, it guides you into safety.

People who mock this and dismiss it are operating from a consciousness on the outside.  This is not said unkindly, it is not said in lack of understanding of the perception of dogma, it is not saying you don't have Christ and you are wrong. To love and trust in God's Son is a conscious decision, it is not a submission - there is a huge difference in this -  the fruits of Christ consciousness speak for themselves, love, caring and understanding,  I just tend to be vocal.

If the other members do not mind I post again - understanding the astral world, in case you have not come across this in your studies.  

May God's love be with you.