Conversation Board - Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...

B-dawg

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Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Jan 24^th, 2007 at 12:49am

Pratekya and Don suggested (in my second-to-last thread) that
I may truly have no choice in what awaits for me after death
(the implication being, that I may be IRREVOCABLY IMMORTAL
and may well have to live FOREVER in a conscious existence I loathe..!)
But here is something to consider...
(All of this assumes a "go around once, no reincarnation" paradigm
where I DIDN'T EXIST prior to my birth (or conception) and therefore
didn't choose this existence. Allowing prior existence/incarnations, I can't make my central argument here - that is, that I was dragooned into existence!)
Here I am, in the world. I didn't ASK to be here. If I'd been given
the choice, to be honest - I probably would have taken a pass on existence. (Assuming I'd been properly briefed on conscious existence before I was tossed into it!)
Yet, as it is - I CHOOSE to be here every day. However, I can leave at
ANY TIME VERY EASILY, by means of poison, or a shotgun, or a rope.
THIS OPTION remains open to me always! (And if I actually have anything to THANK "God" for, it is this..!)
If at ANY time I should EVER decide I DON'T want to be here, I can
check out any time I want, in any WAY I want. AND THAT IS FAIR!!! Remember, I DIDN'T ASK TO BE HERE!
Why should the afterlife (if it exists) be any different? Why shouldn't
anyone who wishes, be able to painlessly disintegrate into oblivion? "As
above, so below" as the saying goes... right?
Because I really, REALLY didn't ask to be immortal, in a realm where, according to all reports, I can't even BE MY OWN DOG like I at least can be, here on Earth. Unless of course, I'm willing to submit to torture, forced labor, and other pointless idiocies in "Hell." (REALLY, folks!)

B-dog

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augoeideian Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 958 South Africa Gender:	Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"... Reply #1 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 7:57am Calm down Chumley - it's just life nothing more, nothing less. Least 'there' you don't have to hassle with fleas and ticks!
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pratekya

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #2 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 2:21pm

Chumley -
I am open to the possibility that reincarnation exists selectively, and don't think it would violate any of the main tenets of Christianity. In fact, one could make a strong argument that John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah. I have heard that some early Christian fathers adopted ideas of reincarnation as well. Having said that, if reincarnation exists, its on a very small scale compared to what is expected through Hinduism or Buddhism. Again, does my view matter? Only to the extent that it correlates to the truth. I may be wrong. But I have reasons for what I believe. Chumley, on the other hand, has only his emotions and one logical argument; that the predicament of life that he finds himself in is unfair because he did not choose it.
I do think that we make the choice to incarnate before our birth, in some way. The reason for this is simply that God ultimately respects our free will to an incredibly great degree. In fact God respects our free will so much that he allows moral evil to exist (i.e. the holocaust), and allows an orderly universe that is necessary for ethical choices to happen that includes terrible natural evil (i.e. hurricane Katrina). If God respects our free will so much, it makes sense that he would also ask us if we would choose to be born before it actually happened. We cannot remember anything that we have done before our birth, so we cannot remember this choice. But I think it makes sense that it happened precisely because of the value he places on free will (which is even more important than natural or moral evil).
As for wanting to choose annihilation, it may be possible, but again its rare and in the end not up to you. If God exists, then suicide is not the end of your existence, whether you want it to be or not. Again, the analogy I made, is that if you really don't want gravity to exist, and walk off a building, it really doesn't matter what you want. You will still fall. Notice in this analogy you sitll have free willl (the choice to walk off a building) but there are also consequences for your actions (falling down). There is also an independent reality apart from what one wants/believes. In the same way you may want anihilation to be the reality after death, however the objective reality is independent of what you want, and you will fall if you misuse that free will.
Lastly, to Augoeideian - I think Chumley is right to be upset in a sense. His urgency is more appropriate at least then having a flippant attitude. What we do and believe matters. And what we do determines the trajectory of our eternal afterlife existence. The stakes are huge.
Pratekya

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DocM

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #3 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 2:53pm

Pratekay said:

" Lastly, to Augoeideian - I think Chumley is right to be upset in a sense. His urgency is more appropriate at least then having a flippant attitude. What we do and believe matters. And what we do determines the trajectory of our eternal afterlife existence. The stakes are huge. "

I agree, but disagree. "What we do and believe matters." Agreed. "The stakes are huge." Yes, but the ideas about eternal damnation come from within us. As long as one is willing to take off the blinders of hindering belief systems, our paths are not set in stone for eternity depending on the choices we make in earth life. Huge stakes? Yes. But many courses for our eternity. As long as we are open to change, love and the notion of grace. This is how Howard Storm was rescued from a hell in his prolonged near-death experience.

Brendan is so fixated on eternal scenarios (being a groveling slave, or being in an eternal hell of his making). The idea of eternity of no way out and no change is anathema to the way the universe works. So, I disagree with saying that the stakes are high because choices made in this earth life will set about a series of permanent events to either secure our future or our damnation.

M

In some ways, Augos "hey its only life, mellow out" line is true. We all sometimes take things much too seriously.

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B-dawg

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #4 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 7:39pm

Chumley -
I am open to the possibility that reincarnation exists selectively, and don't think it would violate any of the main tenets of Christianity. In fact, one could make a strong argument that John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah. I have heard that some early Christian fathers adopted ideas of reincarnation as well. Having said that, if reincarnation exists, its on a very small scale compared to what is expected through Hinduism or Buddhism. Again, does my view matter? Only to the extent that it correlates to the truth. I may be wrong. But I have reasons for what I believe. Chumley, on the other hand, has only his emotions and one logical argument; that the predicament of life that he finds himself in is unfair because he did not choose it.
I do think that we make the choice to incarnate before our birth, in some way. The reason for this is simply that God ultimately respects our free will to an incredibly great degree. In fact God respects our free will so much that he allows moral evil to exist (i.e. the holocaust), and allows an orderly universe that is necessary for ethical choices to happen that includes terrible natural evil (i.e. hurricane Katrina). If God respects our free will so much, it makes sense that he would also ask us if we would choose to be born before it actually happened. We cannot remember anything that we have done before our birth, so we cannot remember this choice. But I think it makes sense that it happened precisely because of the value he places on free will (which is even more important than natural or moral evil).
As for wanting to choose annihilation, it may be possible, but again its rare and in the end not up to you. If God exists, then suicide is not the end of your existence, whether you want it to be or not. Again, the analogy I made, is that if you really don't want gravity to exist, and walk off a building, it really doesn't matter what you want. You will still fall. Notice in this analogy you sitll have free willl (the choice to walk off a building) but there are also consequences for your actions (falling down). There is also an independent reality apart from what one wants/believes. In the same way you may want anihilation to be the reality after death, however the objective reality is independent of what you want, and you will fall if you misuse that free will.
Lastly, to Augoeideian - I think Chumley is right to be upset in a sense. His urgency is more appropriate at least then having a flippant attitude. What we do and believe matters. And what we do determines the trajectory of our eternal afterlife existence. The stakes are huge.
Pratekya
*****************
Well, curse on the the day I was born, then.
I'm sure glad that I didn't father any kids to be eternally
trapped in this sh!thole of a universe forever...
To be saddled with the same identity forever, makes
me sick, truth be told.
God can s*** my c***. I REFUSE to serve him. I didn't
volunteer to be put into the CESSPOOL he calls a universe.
I'm a modern AMERICAN... not a 11th-century louse-infested
crusty-undergarmented stinking medieval yokel. So yes, I'm
"contaminated" with modern values (as a Christian "traditionalist"
might say.)
So what? (They are infinitely better than the jew tribal God's
"values" anyway, OR the "values" of the disgusting, vile, filthy,
mindless sheep-herding hominids "He" chose to reveal himself to,
while demanding "faith" (i.e., idiotic credulity) from modern,
thought-capable peoples.)

B-man

P.S. Funny thing. Back when I was sure that we lived in a
benign, materialistic universe I'd marvel at the beauty of
the night sky.
Now when I look at it... ever since I've LOST that old certainty,
I look at the night sky and see what brings to mind a gigantic
unflushed toilet. An inescapable TRAP...
I hereby BLASPHEME the "holy ghost"!!! (That oughtta lay out
my position to the Holy Scumbag...)

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Steve_ED

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #5 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 9:17pm

Quote:

Well, curse on the the day I was born, then.
I'm sure glad that I didn't father any kids to be eternally
trapped in this sh!thole of a universe forever...
To be saddled with the same identity forever, makes
me sick, truth be told.
God can s*** my c***. I REFUSE to serve him. I didn't
volunteer to be put into the CESSPOOL he calls a universe.
I'm a modern AMERICAN... not a 11th-century louse-infested
crusty-undergarmented stinking medieval yokel. So yes, I'm
"contaminated" with modern values (as a Christian "traditionalist"
might say.)
So what? (They are infinitely better than the jew tribal God's
"values" anyway, OR the "values" of the disgusting, vile, filthy,
mindless sheep-herding hominids "He" chose to reveal himself to,
while demanding "faith" (i.e., idiotic credulity) from modern,
thought-capable peoples.)

B-man

P.S. Funny thing. Back when I was sure that we lived in a
benign, materialistic universe I'd marvel at the beauty of
the night sky.
Now when I look at it... ever since I've LOST that old certainty,
I look at the night sky and see what brings to mind a gigantic
unflushed toilet. An inescapable TRAP...
I hereby BLASPHEME the "holy ghost"!!! (That oughtta lay out
my position to the Holy Scumbag...)

Chumley,

You are where I was at one time and I cheer you; let it all out and heal up is the best advice. The point you raise is that nothing is too holy to be questioned; that is very empowering IMHO. The meaning of life & beyond is...really your own decision so make it count in your own way. Wink

I am serious.

Steve Σ

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #6 - Jan 24^th, 2007 at 9:41pm

H B-man-
I recall a patient who had worked through some karmic crap in a prior life, and then went off to explore the spirit world. While there, a number of "helpers" suggested that he might like a bath in a beautiful pool. So he jumped in and discovered that it was actually a slide that took him back into the next womb and rebirth.

However, for the rest, the usual thing is not only that we are condemned to live eternally, and to grow and gain in empowerment, wisdom and such, but that we also are doomed to be overwhelmed by love, joy and happiness. God really must have a sense of humor, hey?
PUL
dave

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life is too short to drink sour wine

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augoeideian

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #7 - Jan 25^th, 2007 at 3:17am

No, I was not flippant in my remark my tone was exactly as Matthew perceived it to be.

Pratekya, I really enjoy your posts and your level head and I say to you the stakes are not that high for the battle has already been won and the stake now is the value placed on oneself, the world and fellow man.

It is time to partake in the Joy knowing our dear world is not lost but is found.

With love.
Caryn

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pratekya Full Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 150 Los Angeles, CA Gender:	Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"... Reply #8 - Jan 25^th, 2007 at 6:23pm Chumley / Bman - Please read this link of a person who commits suicide and has a near death experience. I think its very insightful. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide04.html Pratekya
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B-dawg

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #9 - Jan 25^th, 2007 at 8:27pm

Chumley / Bman -
Please read this link of a person who commits suicide and has a near death experience. I think its very insightful.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide04.html
Pratekya
*****************
NO. I WON'T READ IT!!!
Why, you ask? TWO reasons.
#1. I don't plan on committing suicide anytime soon. Maybe someday,
if I get cancer or something, but NOT now..!
#2. Because... Oooooo... the story will tell me how the jew god will
"kick my A$$!" for rejecting his gay son and his idiotic "salvation plan." I'll go to "Hell" for it. Am I right? (Yeah, I though so...)
Same old song, different singer. The Christian god can BLOW me.
The Christian god is a PUKE MONSTER. Only a COWARD... a
groveling little piece of amphibian SH!T would blindly and tremblingly
"worship" this monstrosity, instead of giving it the REJECTION it richly
deserves! (And that is assuming that Ol' Scumbag exists...)
Funny thing about "Yahweh." He's supposed to be a pretty formidable
fellow, a real mega-hero tough guy. Just one thing...
How can "He" be a "man of war" if he has no equivalent beings to "him"self? (Oooooo, "He" can stomp on his tiny little creations. I'm SO
impressed!!! A little mutant Down syndrome boy can do that to an anthill. And would not an omnipotent being be even more powerful compared to us, than we are to ants? At least an ant can BITE you...)
Given the character of "Yahweh" as revealed in the Buy Bull, he is
a BULLY. A bully with no experience of facing someone his own size, BTW.
I'll bet "He" would be total COWARD and WORM if faced with a hostile
being that was as powerful as "He" was. I'll bet "He'd" be on his knees, kow-towing, blubbering, groveling and genuflecting... just like he demands his tiny, too-weak-to-fight-back-at-him creations to do. (It sure would be funny spectacle to watch "Yahweh" get slapped and kicked around by somebody who ALSO had omnipotence, and a DISTASTE for playground bullies..!)
To sum up...
I'd rather be a MAN in "Hell", than a little feces nematode in
"Heaven." I'm nobody's servant, and I never will be...
'Nuff Said!!!

B-man

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juditha

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #10 - Jan 26^th, 2007 at 2:29pm

Hi Chumley i dont know what happened to you in your life at sometime,but whatever it was has left you with these feelings of a deep hatred for God and i ask God to surround you with love and light.

You will go to the spirit world one day,when it is your time and you will be surrounded with love,as this world we live in is the bad place but we all of us just try to send love out as much as we can,even though sometimes it can be hard.

It will be great when we are all over the spirit world ,we can all get together and talk about our time on the earth plain,i will and we all will be there to give you love Chumley.

I feel sometimes when life lets me down,angry and sad,but the love in my heart for you and all on here makes those feelings go away,we all love you and God loves you even though you insult him lots of times,he will always love you.

Love and God bless you Love Juditha

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recoverer

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #11 - Jan 26^th, 2007 at 3:29pm

Chumley:

But what if you found that God has set things up so you can be extremely happy for all of eternity? Why would you want to miss out on such a thing?

Don't be dismayed because things haven't worked out for you while in here in the physical. This is how things work out at times. Just have the intent to grow in a positive way, and give yourself the time to do so. When I visited heaven I understood that everything works out wonderfully. Don't do anything to postpone this realization.

Let us say a person believes the key to happiness is money. Should they become angry with a person who offers to give them a billion dollars? Of course not. So why get mad at God who has set things up so we can find all the happiness, peace and love we want in our own way, once we find the way that works for us? Our own way, because who wants to be a computer program that has no choice?

Perhaps you've had more misfortune than others, and this makes you angry. There are beings of light who understand that some of us have more difficulty to work through than others. When you finally figure things out you're liable to get a bigger pat on the back than people who didn't have it as hard. The World being the way it is, I guess some of us have to take on the responsibility of working through a lot of hardship. Perhaps you're more special than you realize.

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2007 at 7:51pm by recoverer »

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Steve_ED

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #12 - Jan 26^th, 2007 at 3:33pm

Quote:

Hi Chumley i dont know what happened to you in your life at sometime,but whatever it was has left you with these feelings of a deep hatred for God and i ask God to surround you with love and light.

You will go to the spirit world one day,when it is your time and you will be surrounded with love,as this world we live in is the bad place but we all of us just try to send love out as much as we can,even though sometimes it can be hard.

It will be great when we are all over the spirit world ,we can all get together and talk about our time on the earth plain,i will and we all will be there to give you love Chumley.

I feel sometimes when life lets me down,angry and sad,but the love in my heart for you and all on here makes those feelings go away,we all love you and God loves you even though you insult him lots of times,he will always love you.

Love and God bless you Love Juditha

Chumley just needs his own personal space much like I do. Wink

A belief system that works for one person does not necessarily work for another one every-time so try not the judge him too harshly; all due respect from me for your own belief in God. As for my belief in God, it is sort of a "fill in the blank issue", I wish to remain neutral and discover my own data without any boxes to force data into. I say this with a productive intent. Sort of like letting God discover me without me applying limitations to God.

In addition, I went through the same episode of anger myself before finally making peace as a explorer. Sure, my Christian beliefs are there but they are library data now rather than "Ye shall nots" that tell me things that defy logic. Wink

I made that decision when I dreamt about a man who was burning a Holy Bible and I shouted for him to stop.

It is really your own decision (Chumley), but I have decided to help Chumley by breaking through and over riding his fear of being surrounded by "Bible Thumpers" to show him the roads of possibilities that he may take. Of course, I won't decide for him. Cool

Steve Σd

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2007 at 7:09pm by N/A »

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deanna

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #13 - Jan 26^th, 2007 at 6:07pm

Hi chumley we are all on this earth plane for a reason and while we are on this earth we have no choice but to live it the best we can i have had some terrible times in my life and wanted to just give up altoghether but you cant you have got to go on no matter how hard it is life can be really horrible at times i,m not afraid of death its the actual dying process that worries me but not after death because i know i will go to the spiritworld and see my darlin dad who i lost 6 yrs ago and the rest of my family what have passed over ,i know you find it hard to believe in god but the power of prayer is really amazing and it does help i find it helps me when i,m really distressed and dont know which way to turn god is there for you ,seek and you will find , god bless you chumley for you are loved by god more than you realise love deanna

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recoverer

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Re: Pratekya, Don, and "getting what I want"...
Reply #14 - Jan 26^th, 2007 at 6:10pm

The below isn't just talk. I've experienced divine love, it is much more than something my mind could create, and you can bet that God and other light beings love us very much.

deanna wrote on Jan 26^th, 2007 at 6:07pm:

Hi chumley we are all on this earth plane for a reason and while we are on this earth we have no choice but to live it the best we can i have had some terrible times in my life and wanted to just give up altoghether but you cant you have got to go on no matter how hard it is life can be really horrible at times i,m not afraid of death its the actual dying process that worries me but not after death because i know i will go to the spiritworld and see my darlin dad who i lost 6 yrs ago and the rest of my family what have passed over ,i know you find it hard to believe in god but the power of prayer is really amazing and it does help i find it helps me when i,m really distressed and dont know which way to turn god is there for you ,seek and you will find , god bless you chumley for you are loved by god more than you realise love deanna

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