I dont understand when some people die,why they dont know they are dead.Surley if they can not contact the living, is that not proof they are dead.All they have to do is try to open a door,and there hand goes through it would that not tell them.Ive been out of my body lots of time.I was in my kitchen.there are some jars there.I reach out hold one of them,and my hand goes right trough it all the way down trough the counter top.So can anybody tell me why a person thinks he  is not dead.Beats me. George

Hi George-
The other side of what Shirley was saying is that we create doors that we can open and that feel solid. Thus, we can't always test them.  So when someone who wants to not be dead creates his "I'm not dead" scenario, it's believable.

Given that, the next obvious questionis how we can tell for certain that we're really alive right now.

Personally, I ask my wife.

dave

Thanks George, you just gave me a description I had been wanting for.
It has always been a little unclear to me, whether when you go OB,
are you going into a new artificial reality, or are you in an
altered state in the normal physical reality?

The artificial reality has sometimes been described in what I have
read as being a little different from the normal. The table may be
a different shape, or there may be a doorway that is not in the
physical reality, that when you open it, may lead to some sort of
science fiction scene. That is, you start out seeing a replica of
what is familiar,  but it is not an accurate replica.

In your case that you describe here, it looks as if you were
actually in the physical kitchen, but unable to manipulate it the
way that a ghost can't manipulate it. (There are cases when you
have a ghost present who has the ability to manipulate something).

On Linns forum, Bob told the story of how he was able, when OB, to
follow two boys as they at night stole his bicycle from his front
yard, to where they took it at their home. Then later when he was
back in the physical, he followed the route the boys took, found
the bicycle and took it home.
He also, while OB and following them, was able to hear their
conversation to each other.

The rest of that story is that he put it back where it was in his
front yard. The boys were passing his yard on the way to school the
next day, saw the bicycle back where it was, and took off running.
After that they took a different route to school.

In this case, it seems like he was in an altered state, but in the
physical reality, or in something that was accurate enough so he
was able to find the bicycle, from remembering his OB.

In another story, a man saw his dog go OB while sleeping. He was
able to see the OB image. He picked up the sleeping dog and threw
it at the OB image, and immediately the image went back into the
dog. Thus he was seeing both realities, the physical and the
nonphysical, and they both were existing at a location in the
physical reality.

Yes I agree with you.I found out for myself what happens,when we die unexspectedly.I awakened in a hafe asleep hafe awake state.I heard a man saying,I am 36 years old.I sensed right away who that was.It was a man who was killed in a mine on an island where I lived.I said ,Mike,you died in 1952,and this is 2002.I told him to go to the light,you will find your wife and all your friends there.George

EliteNYC wrote on Apr 8^th, 2007 at 2:58am:

Wow, excellent post! 

Dave said:  Personally, I ask my wife.
______