Greetings.  I just wanted to say that I very much enjoy your posts.  I left this website after Spitfire left and you said you were leaving.  I have copied and saved more than one of your threads and go over them later - I find them to be excellent.  As for myself, I have a master's degree in Philosophy and Religious Studies, and happen to be a Christian who is open to looking for different ways of experiencing the afterlife.  I've read Bruce's books, and started with his techniques but didnt have much success.  I have also read (some of) Heaven and Hell by Swedenborg and very much appreciated your recent postings on him.  In any case, I just want to say that I have seen some negative replies; people getting huffy because of your criticisms, but I would like to encourage you to keep posting.  Some people, like myself, no doubt appreciate what you have to say; more than that, even people who don't appreciate it now need to see that a Christian core of ideas can be strongly defended with reason, logic, and evidence.

Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, Judaism, Sikh, Parsee... all of these can be defended with reason, logic, and evidence.  All of these religions teach great moral lessons and have brought love and hope into the lives of millions upon millions of people.  Of course, these religions have also been a primary tool for control of the general population by the few in charge, not to mention have caused more human deaths than any other force on earth.  But we won't go into that.  I just want to say that no religion is better than the other, they are all based around the same premise and serve the same purpose for humans.  You cannot say that one religion is superior to the rest, because that is simply a matter of opinion.  I think it would be best if we left our beliefs at the door and simply brought our experiences to the table.  No religion is a perfect specimine of love and truth.  I fear this board is begining to focus more on the members religous beliefs rather than our personal experiences and explorations which give us a greater understanding afterlife.(Yes, I realize I have been contributing to this and will no longer)   

Out of body dude:

I know where you're coming from because I've been there. I probably read some of the same books. Eventually I came to the realization that I'm not going to figure out the truth of the matter by reading a bunch of books and internet articles.

If you made a sincere request to God to let you know the truth about the matter, he's liable to let you know. Until you've done so are just fooling yourself with a bunch of intellectual book knowledge, no matter how many times you go out of body. Don't expect Jesus to show up in an out of body experience, if you have no interest in him.

You can't judge the effect Jesus has had on the World, by reading books and internet articles that emphasize the negative things Christians have done. It is much wiser and open hearted to realize that many Christians have been positively influenced by him. I believe that hell like realms exist. I've visited them during out of body experiences.  Who knows how many more souls would've ended up spending time in these realms for however long, if their Christian faith hadn't played a role in getting them to live their life in a positive manner.  My guess is that billions of human souls have been spared the pain of having to experience a hell like realm for however long, because of their Christian faith.

I know of a number of people who have been influenced by Christianity in a positive way. Sure they don't go out of body and aren't trying to become enlightened masters. They don't need to. What's important is that their minds and hearts grow in a way that allows them to cross over to a nice place when their time comes. They'll have all of eternity to find out about higher truths. In fact, a person who lives according to goodness and love, will be far better off than a person who goes out of body all the time and doesn't live according to goodness and love.

You can't underestimate how much Jesus helps people when people ask him for help.  He can help them as much as they are willing to be helped.

Don't dismiss the accounts of people who have met and been influenced by the spirit of Jesus, simply because you haven't chosen to be influenced in the same way. It is intellectually dishonest to do so.

Hey guys.  I'm not hating on Christianity.  I'm not hating on religions.  I'm just saying they are good for those who need them, but are not for everybody.  I am also saying that just because someone has a certain belief does not make that belief superior to the beliefs of others. 

Recoverer, I have stated intent for the past few nights to reveal Jesus to me before falling asleep.  I have been having very spiritual dreams for the past few nights.  I am very open to the possibility that Jesus' spirit exists.  In fact, I have had dreams of Jesus lately.  This morning I woke up with a rote-type feeling.  I did not exactly remember the details of the dream, but I had a strong feeling of what the dream was about.  What I got from this dream is that Jesus is real to those who want him to be real.  He does in fact exist in the spiritual realms.  However, he was, rather than created by the Christian God(this is obviously not the case for the Christian God is not real), created by the love and thoughts of those who believe in him and need his love and support.  I have the feeling that this was told to me by Jesus himself.  I am not saying this is definatly true, but I feel it is.  Jesus comes to all who asks for him, right?  And Jesus wouldn't lie, would he?

The problem with putting the cart before the horse is that you get nowhere.

Dude:

I didn't take the below approach. I knew that I didn't know.  So I tried to find out with an open heart and open mind, and was told in various ways that Jesus is a significant part of mankind's spiritual welfare. What I experienced when he appeared to me had nothing to do with some collective imagination. Sounds like that theory is the result of your collective imagination.

If you take that perceiving according to one's belief thing too far, then you might as well not go out of body, because you're only going to perceive what your beliefs have created for you.

A person doesn't stop existing, simply because the recorded history surrounding this person is unclear. If this type of approach was valid we would've fallen off of this planet a long time ago, because the parts of the World that have an unclear history would've evaporated into nothingness.



I Am Dude wrote on Jan 12^th, 2007 at 1:57pm: