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Regarding Jesus Christ (Read 6996 times)
recoverer
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Regarding Jesus Christ
Jan 8th, 2007 at 1:21pm
 
Some other threads have been created regarding Jesus Christ.  I thought I'd start one of my own. This thread won't be based on academic arguments. Partly because I don't have the academic knowledge to engage is such a way of determining things.

Please bear with me, but I'm going to provide a short spiritual history of my life, in order that you can see how everything fell into place.

I was raised a Catholic. Stopped believing in Catholicism when I was in Jr. High School.  To me science seemed to have the answers.

One night while in my late teens, even though I was an atheist at the time, I found myself in heaven. I was very relieved to find that despite my doubts God and the afterlife existed. Not only did I understand that this was so, I completely understood how it was possible, without having to think about it. It was an automatic inner knowing. The happiness I felt in heaven was wonderful. Beyond what I imagined was possible, yet inwardly yearned for. The understanding came to me that Jesus was a part of it, but not in a limiting fundamentalist way. I saw a bright star at the end. It made me think of Jesus. When the experience ended and I found myself in the physical World again, I was really dissapointed. My obtuse and not quite curious enough mind dismissed the experience as a dream (a conclusion that will be shown to be false later).

I remained an atheist for a couple of more years, until I started to have some spiritual experiences. Eventually I got interested in Eastern religions, and got involved with the guru thing. Eventually I found that there are many gurus who aren't the all knowing masters they claim to be.

I went through a period of time where I denied the existence of God and the afterlife, despite my many spiritual experiences. Our minds can be quite good at denying what we know to be inwardly true if we really work at it. During this time period I became annoyed at fundamentalist Christianity for various reasons.

Eventually the spiritual part of myself couldn't remain suppressed. I started to have spiritual experiences again. I realized that the denial period I went through was something I had to go through, in order to gain some distance from the false ideas I had taken on while involved with Eastern teachings (I don't mean to imply that they are completely false).

I realized that my experience of heaven wasn't just a dream. What I experienced was way beyond what my biological mind could create, what I inwardly understood was too certain, the happiness I experienced was too marvelous, and the feeling of divinity was too strong. The way my understanding of this experience came back to me reminds me of how some people who have near death experiences need some time before the meaning of their experiences come back to them.

After my spiritual reawakening, I would wonder about Jesus Christ at times. My feelings about fundamentalist Christianity and experience with gurus caused there to be a block between me and him. Because of false beliefs I had taken on in the past, I wasn't willing to believe that he is who people say he is, simply because the Bible says so. I needed something more substantial. As I went through this period of not knowing,  I still had a strong desire to be in accord with God's divine plan. So I would tell God, "God, I don't know who Jesus is. If he's a part of your divine plan, then I am completely with him. But I can't just lie to myself and say that he is without knowing."

It didn't take long before God started to answer my inquiries. I started to have experiences and receive messages which told me that Jesus is a definite part of God's divine plan. For example, one night before I went to bed I asked for something such as a dream which told me who/what Jesus is. I woke up in the middle of the night from a dream. I turned on my night lamp and grabbed my dream journal and a pen so I could take some notes. But then I saw a star flash. I often see stars flash and I know that these represent the presence of spirits. But this star was many times bigger than any star I had seen before and felt much more powerful. It occurred to me that this was the presence of Jesus. I forgot about my dream notes, put down my dream journal and pen and turned off my night lamp. I was overcome with more energy than I had ever felt before, and I've felt lots of energy before. As I laid on my side I experienced a light energy massage at the back of my head from my neck up to my crown chakra. I also felt my heart chakra open so it seemed as if my entire upper body was contained within it.  This went on for a while. I also felt lots of love, grattitude, and humility towards Jesus. I thanked him repeatedly for taking the time to visit me. I felt like getting down on my knees but didn't, because I don't believe that he wants to be worshiped in such a way, just appreciated for who he is.

The feeling I get from the above experience is that Jesus can be in as many places as he wants to be. So if a person reaches out to him they will receive his help.  It is a big, big mistake to judge who Jesus is by people who have misrepresented him. This is one of the messages I have received about him.

I highly recommend that a person doesn't allow something such as an adversion to fundamentalist ideas prevent he or she from finding out what Jesus Christ is all about.  I found that once I stopped doing so a blockage in my heart chakra cleared away. After the above experience I also found that the energy flow between my throat and crown chakras has become more clear and alive. It is almost as if there is an energetic channel that serves the purpose of connecting us to Christ.

If you want to know the truth about who Jesus is, don't rely simply on reading books. With humility and sincerity pray and ask for the truth of who he is to be revealed to you. Trust that only the truth will be revealed to you.

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Rob Calkins
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 2:15pm
 
Thanks for your story Recoverer.  My own experiences have some similarities to what you've described.  I've read a number of books about NDEs and they seem to indicate that people often identify that higher presence with their own religious background.  I wonder if you were from a Hindu background if you would have seen Krishna.  It's not my intent to question your experience because I accept it.  I'd even use the term epiphany to describe it.  I'm just wondering what your thoughts are about how we translate and identify a much higher spiritual presence such as you described. 

Rob
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 2:35pm
 
Rob:

When I experienced heaven, I understood that God and the afterlife exist on a level that was deeper than the level in which my belief oriented mind operated. The fact of this is made clear to me when I reflect on how I completely understood how God, Jesus and the afterlife are possible, without even having to think about it. It was an automatic knowing that felt completely satifactory and didn't leave room for doubt. Plus, the happiness I felt, I don't believe my belief oriented mind could come up with such a wonderful feeling. I didn't have any specific thoughts of Jesus except that he does exist and is a part of God's truth. I believe that the bright star I saw at the end was shown to me in order to validate this point.

When it comes to the revelations about Jesus I received later in my life, even though I asked, they took me by surprise. They haven't occurred in a manner which suggests that my mind is making the whole thing up.

Even before I asked, in addition to my experience of heaven, I received some clues that Jesus is a part of God's plan. For example, one day I was doing a retrievel while meditating. Suddenly while I was trying to help a man cross over, accross a bay, an image of Jesus appeared. Spirals of gold light emanated from this image and filled the scenery of the location in which I was doing a retrievel.  At this point the man I was trying to help forgot all about me and floated accross the bay to where the figure of Jesus was. He did so in a timeless manner, because he traveled the distance rather quickly, without having to float at a fast speed.

When it comes to the issue of identity, the experience where it felt like Jesus visited me gave me the impression that who Jesus is can't be defined by the body that walked on this planet a couple of thousand years ago. Who he is goes beyond this. I don't know the details. I'm trying to find out.




Rob Calkins wrote on Jan 8th, 2007 at 2:15pm:
Thanks for your story Recoverer.  My own experiences have some similarities to what you've described.  I've read a number of books about NDEs and they seem to indicate that people often identify that higher presence with their own religious background.  I wonder if you were from a Hindu background if you would have seen Krishna.  It's not my intent to question your experience because I accept it.  I'd even use the term epiphany to describe it.  I'm just wondering what your thoughts are about how we translate and identify a much higher spiritual presence such as you described.  

Rob

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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 1:47pm
 
Thanks again Recoverer.  Automatic knowing sounds like a good description.  What you describe sounds transcendent almost beyond our ability to explain.  An experience at that level probably doesn’t need any explanation.  It’s enough to have had it.  Then, again, as you indicate, we’re always trying to find out.
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 2:23pm
 
You asked and you received.

He wanted you to Himself and only you could be the one to renew your relationship with Him.  As you saw, He was right there....  waiting.  How very special.

Thank you very much for sharing your story.


Katie
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #5 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 4:13pm
 
You're welcome Kate and Rob.
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #6 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 5:49pm
 
Hi Recoverer I think its wonderful that you had this experience with Jesus.

Love and God bless      Love Juditha
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 8:31pm
 
Juditha:

Me Tooooooooooooooooooooo! Cheesy I think it's wonderful Toooooooooooooooooo! Cheesy
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #8 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 9:01pm
 
Thanks Recoverer,

my own experience of who/what Jesus is, is that he provides elevation. This is the most appropriate word I could find, if you ask for insights of a greater degree, and/or, like others use to say, "raise the vibrational rate", and/or for to have a look at different, "higher" dimensions, he is the right one to ask, that is my impression.

Partly, it was like visiting CWs at Focus 27, and visiting Maitreya (which I did once without much knowledge who he is/was), but with a slight feeling that this "Jesus" entity was in a sort of other place, or simply is a different personality than the others.

I say "he" because I had a weak misty picture before my mind's eye, looking like traditional pictures of Jesus' face. My own little theory is, this traditional picture has formed by many people through the ages. It has become charged by many peoples' thoughts, emotions and desires they have projected into this idol. Now, I hold it for possible, that this is not just a made up fantasy's idol, at least not only, but that all these people not only project their little superstitious beliefs and needs into it, but also their true, inner knowledge and yearning as an expression of humanity in general. In this way, this traditional idol could be a sort of ID to reach an actual existing entity which is a master especially regarding this traditional idol and it's relations to humans.


Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 12:39am
 
 Thank you for sharing that account from the Heart Recoverer.    I've always been rather curious about this particular Soul even though not in religious way.  

 In my early days of spiritual belief system exploring, i kind of thought of him as "just another self realized, perfected spiritual master" type.  

 Yet i couldn't help but be ultimately more interested in him than many other Teachers who have incarnated.  I looked at and respect a lot, and saw wisdom and attunement in many diver places.

But after awhile, while I realized that the above quote is true enough, its not the whole story.  Maybe the whole story is best left as a mystery for the individual to find out..   I often feel somewhat torn by giving my perspective on who and what this Total self really is  (at least so i feel, think, and intuit) and so i don't often go indepth about it though i do talk about Yeshua a fair amount in general.   Partly because of the human/ego and social factor, "oh my goodness, i sound like a religious, dogmatic nut."  and partly cause i realize that so many people have had bad experiences with religion and religious control/conformity, that talking about a religious figure in a strong way is perhaps not always a constructive thing since so many cannot separate the individual Teacher from the religion and teachings created around same (with that said, there is still a strong general spirit of wisdom within the N.T., which many can potentially gain from).

Again, thank you for speaking simply and from the Heart.  
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 1:03pm
 
You're welcome Spooky:

I figure that Jesus doesn't look like anything in particular, except for light. Eventually we all find that the same is true for us. Jesus probably creates an image according to need. Some people who have seen him during near death experiences describe him as looking different than the traditional image.



You're Welcome AhSo.

You remind me of somebody who used to visit this forum a while back. Perhaps just some similar thoughts. I agree that the mystery of all that Jesus is, is a mystery we grow into. I was shown some images a couple of days ago that relate. Here are a couple of them. First I saw an elevator door open.  For me this is a simple for ascending to a higher level. Next I saw a control room with numerous TV screens. One was for me.  The visual images I receive tend to come with a rote of thoughts. I used the rote I received to determine that the room represented the crown chakra, the place where various beings meet in Christ consciousness. There was a place in this room for me. I don't mean to imply that I've obtained Christ consciousness, but I have a connection to this consciousness level threw my crown chakra. I believe that our heart chakra has something to do with it too.
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 3:06pm
 
recoverer wrote on Jan 11th, 2007 at 1:03pm:
You're welcome Spooky:

I figure that Jesus doesn't look like anything in particular, except for light. Eventually we all find that the same is true for us. Jesus probably creates an image according to need. Some people who have seen him during near death experiences describe him as looking different than the traditional image.




   Yeshua is still very much in the body, and has been for about a couple thousand years (he said he would never leave us and he meant it quite literally).  From Edgar Cayce sources, from the Shroud of Turin indications,  a couple of NDE accounts (one by a Jewish woman who didn't "believe" in Yeshua at the time of her NDE), and from a couple of dreams of mine (all which match up to some extent) Yeshua is said to have reddish light brown/blondish hair, piecing blue gray eyes, stands about 6 foot and a half an inch or so, weight a little over 170, strong looking not weak looking at all (strong build), good looking.

  Surprisingly since he was born a Hebraic Jew, he doesn't look averagely Hebraic, though of course that time period saw a lot of different influences, immigration, and various blood lines all intermixing.   Just as the Greeks a few or couple of thousand of years ago were described overall to be more different than now.  Supposedly from accounts thousands of years ago, there were blond hair and blue eyed Greeks, as well as having a different facial structure.  Yet we go to Greece today and we predominantly see shorter, swarthier types often with some shade of brown or black eye and hair color, etc.

  From Cayce's descriptions, the Shroud of Turin, and other sources, it seems that Yeshua resembles more an ancient Celtic king than any other specific racial type.

  Doesn't matter (his looks), but if he decides to make a public appearance again maybe its good to know (Cayce's source suggested he possibly would when the law of like attracts and begets like was fulfilled, meaning the Earth's overall consciousness was much more intune and fast vibrating and the material strangle hold and bonds on the masses put there by the few very corrupt, greedy, and unbelievably selfish folks wasn't an issue anymore).

Quote:
You're Welcome AhSo.

You remind me of somebody who used to visit this forum a while back. Perhaps just some similar thoughts. I agree that the mystery of all that Jesus is, is a mystery we grow into. I was shown some images a couple of days ago that relate. Here are a couple of them. First I saw an elevator door open.  For me this is a simple for ascending to a higher level. Next I saw a control room with numerous TV screens. One was for me.  The visual images I receive tend to come with a rote of thoughts. I used the rote I received to determine that the room represented the crown chakra, the place where various beings meet in Christ consciousness. There was a place in this room for me. I don't mean to imply that I've obtained Christ consciousness, but I have a connection to this consciousness level threw my crown chakra. I believe that our heart chakra has something to do with it too.
 

   You mean Phoenix a.k.a Justin?   Tis me.  I left for awhile because i was feeling rather uncentered and consistently so.   I didn't want anyone here to suffer anymore because of it, and so i left for awhile.   I feel more centered lately (though not as much as i would ideally like), so i figured i would see how it feels to post again. 

Yes, i believe i understand what you are trying to say and what your image/rote combo is saying.   Perhaps everyone has a part of them still within Christ/Universal Consciousness?   The way and path is always there, but the those who consciously tread it and bring all aspects of self through that narrow path are few even yet. 

  I agree, i see the Heart and Crown Centers as resonating in sync with each other.  I believe the Crown is the energy center through which we are always receiving White Light Source energy, but in most folks its kind of disconnected from the rest of the energy system. 

  But when someone starts expressing, putting out that kind of energy from the Heart (which is initially more personally based, but can become Universal like the Crown), the more it creates, fosters, and facilitates a balanced path for this energy to flood all Centers and simultaneously.   Eventually we become One big Crown/Heart Center of energy, pure White Light.   Its like all the prism colors (the rainbow created when White Light shines through a prism, which is kind of like what happens with our various 7 major energy centers), but inverted and all the major colors/tones/frequencies all blend and meld into one another again to show the real reality behind the colors which is the White Light source energy.

  It's not all that hard to find pure White Light consciousnesses when exploring the nonphysical dimensions...but to find someone who has attained that while still in a body... whole nother enchilada, much harder to do unless the time/space cycle (the outer energy) and culture at the time really strongly facilitates it e.g. like this Galactic Center alignment, or Monroes 3500 year date.  Or in the past during high energy times like in Atlantis, Lemuria, Ancient Egypt, with the Native Americans, to some extent even Greece (like when Pythagoras was around), also China and India had some pretty collectively intune periods. 

   At these cycles, the Earth and espeically our bodies becomes less physically dense, and so it is easier to move into those more expanded and universal states of being and consciousness. 

   Yet, imagine what it must of took for a human born personality living 2 thousand years ago during a very dense, and dark cycle and surrounded by on average rather dark and materialistic consciousnesses and very limiting belief systems!? 

  I have a hard time even comprehending how the dude fully accomplished it, baffles my mind.   Yet he did, and did so that we (the majority) could also during times of greater outer facilitation.  He never even needed to come to Earth to begin with for his own developement, he had already attained White Light Source consciousness before our physical Earth was even manifested.  As Cayce's source said, he forsook the ultimate "Heaven" (pure W.L. consciousness) to know suffering, separation, for us.  If that doesn't deserve at least respect (if not love and immense gratitude), i don't know what does yet even still so many either irrationally hate him and/or deny him Cry.   Hence the continual fascination (one might say "obsession") with this person and his Total self, by both sides, the believers and the nonbelievers.

  Strange world we live in eh....
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #12 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 4:10pm
 
AhSo:

Yes, I did think you were Justin.

Regarding Jesus still being here in the physical, I don't see why it is necessary. Being here in spirit is more than enough.

You wrote that a couple of NDEs state that he is here in the physical. Some speak quite differently. Which NDEs are you talking about? Are they available on the internet?

Regarding your dreams, I'm not qualified to comment  on them. I know that my dreams tend to contain messages that are based on what is true. Is it possible that your dreams symbolically stated that he is here physically in order to indicate that his spirit presence is so strong it is as if he is? Or perhaps he is here in many of us, as we live more and more according to the love he taught. At times dreams need to be interpreted in a way that isn't literal.


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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #13 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 4:38pm
 
recoverer wrote on Jan 11th, 2007 at 4:10pm:
AhSo:

Yes, I did think you were Justin.

Regarding Jesus still being here in the physical, I don't see why it is necessary. Being here in spirit is more than enough.

You wrote that a couple of NDEs state that he is here in the physical. Some speak quite differently. Which NDEs are you talking about? Are they available on the internet?

Regarding your dreams, I'm not qualified to comment  on them. I know that my dreams tend to contain messages that are based on what is true. Is it possible that your dreams symbolically stated that he is here physically in order to indicate that his spirit presence is so strong it is as if he is? Or perhaps he is here in many of us, as we live more and more according to the love he taught. At times dreams need to be interpreted in a way that isn't literal.




Hi Recoverer,

  I can understand that reasoning, but what effectively helps physically incarnate people more.  A direct physical connection, or a largely unconscious and background connection (which many nonphysical guides work with and many people have to rely on)?  

 My answer is both.   He does both, he exists in all dimensions simultaneously and consciously.  He is beyond our conceptions, beyond any limited left brain thought, beyond space/time limitations.  

 When various intune, verified, etc., sources indicate the same thing, then i don't just listen to my own logical thought processes, but i open up to feel the truth or lack thereof of such a "reality".   I feel this as a truth.

 Cayce's source indicated that Yeshua was still very much present among us, still in the recreated body he formed during his Ressurrection process (and may make a public appearance again).   What do you think the Resurrection was about?   Yeshua's life was not just about being a teacher and example for awhile and then dying like every other teacher.  

 No, he came to prove that the ultimate illusion of humanity is a lie, that physical death is no barrier to a fully realized Son/Daughter of Source--that physical and Spirit is meant to merge.  Every other major world teacher died.

  Who do you think Monore's very physical friend, He/She the some 1800 year old person who Monroe indicated that others knew about in some way ("no one really believes you exist" a brash and overgeneralized statement from a man who shunned religion and anything connected to same), is?

 Is it a coincidence that Monroe just happens to meet a deathless immortal roughly the same "age" in the flesh, and this is exactly what Cayce and others have said that Yeshua achieved while in the physical?

 No, i did not write that these NDE's said Yeshua was in the physical.  Rather i said that two NDE's i know of, and one by a Jewish woman (who did not believe in Yeshua, and had thought very little about him), describe what Yeshua looked like.   The one from the Jewish woman interestingly matches up to how Cayce described his looks in two different readings as regards the somewhat unusual hair coloring.  Both indicate that red is noticable in his coloring (Cayce goes much further in detail though, and says a mix of red, light brown and golden highlights).  I don't know where this NDE account is, i did not save it and i read it a long time ago.

 Is it a coincidence that many years before extensive research on the Shroud of Turin, Cayce's source said that Yeshua would have weighed about 170, and then decades later after research on the Shroud, the experts came to the conclusion that the man on the Shroud would have weighed pretty close to 170?    Is it a coincidence that some of the best scientific minds in the world cannot conclusively figure out or prove what this whole Shroud is about?  Their are many respected minds on both sides arguging both authenticity (e.g. not made by human hands) and that it was a hoax and fraud.   But just think in our extremely materialistic and narrow society, if we really did find a burial cloth which was a snap shot in time/space of the resurrrection process, despite whatever suggestive proof, how many would argue and perhaps vehementily that such an artifact was merely a fraud and hoax by some unbelievably brilliant medevial forger?   In our world and culture, such a thing would not be excepted by the majority of materialistic minded scientists out there.   Yet there are Jewish scientists who have argued for the authenticity of same (though they and few scientists will come right out and say that they believe it is the burial cloth of Yeshua, most just stick to saying its not a forgery and could be 2000 years old).  

 I'm full aware of the nature of dreams, and their oft strong symbolism, i've been involved in dream research and studies for a long time, but thanks for the "tip".  
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Re: Regarding Jesus Christ
Reply #14 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 4:50pm
 
Justin (Sorry, you mean too much to me to not call you Justin):

This is the sort of issue I try to not figure out in an academic way. I'll wait until I find out for myself through some sort of experience before I conclude one way or the other.

Regarding the ability to exist  on many levels, I agree. My experience of Jesus' presence was more real than my experience of the physical World, even though he didn't appear to my physically. It felt divine.  After I first felt it, the thought occurred to me, "and some people don't believe in the World of spirit."
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