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JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH (Read 73568 times)
I Am Dude
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #30 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 7:36pm
 
Edited:
Sure, don't believe in Jesus or his Total Self, He only just created you and loves you more than any Mother/Father you ever had could ever.   


Is this a joke? Jesus created me? Jesus, a character from a book, who was sooooooo obviously copied from past religions and cultures?  There were 15 different "Jesuses" Faaar Prior to Christianity!!! All lived the same exact life!!! All said the same things!!! All were the same person!!!! The similarties are due to the fact that Jesus and the others are nothing more than personifications of the sun! There is only one sun, astrological facts are bascially set in stone, which is why all of these stories are the same!  There is no explanation for these syncronicities except that they were stolen or passed down, whatever you want to call it, from ancient religions to Christianity.  Could it be possible that these psychics and viewers have seen Jesus due to their beliefs?  Of course.  I could leave my body and see Barney the Dinosaur if I wanted to.  Our thoughts manifest, our beliefs manifest as reality to us, but that does not make them historically or universally accurate!  A "great psychic" seeing things which were most likely skewed by their own belief systems, does not disprove the historical facts I have presented, plain and simple.
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #31 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 7:46pm
 
  Apparently you completely skipped over the bulk of my synthesized (from many sources) post explaining why and from what non-religious and psychically respected sources i have reasoned this conclusion from. 

  No biggy, your beliefs and your prerogative.   I can't change them, even with logic and synthesis.

  Co-Create a joyful day for yourself OOBD.
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #32 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 7:50pm
 
 Well for one example, Edgar Cayce talks about many things in his readings which he did not have a conscious belief in.  In fact, there are concepts in there that which any Cayce biographer would tell you that he struggled with for years because they went against his core belief systems which were instilled in him since early childhood growing up in the bible belt and in the poor southern portion of America.

  Really good psychics, can and do get info beyond what they consciously believe in and which contradicts their conscious belief systems.  

  A good psychic is an Universal receiver of information psychic, who has less distortion effect on the info coming through.

 
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #33 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 8:07pm
 
The pure suggestion that Jesus possibly may have existed is enough thought to enable the process of manifesting that reality.  You do not need to be religious to believe in Jesus, or to think that he probably existed, this I learned from observing some of my closest family members.  I am not denying that these psychics saw Jesus, for I am sure they did.  I am simply saying that the collective thought that he did exist among the Christian and Catholic population(which is extremely large) is enough energy to allow this character Jesus to manifest for those psychicly looking back to pick up on.  Just as it is likely that a psychic looking back to the time of Chrishna, or Buddha, or any of the other 16 "sons of god" would pick up on the energies of these characters.  Not because they existed in reality, but because the mass conscious thought that they did exist allowed that energy to manifest.
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AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #34 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 8:21pm
 
I Am Dude wrote on Jan 7th, 2007 at 8:07pm:
The pure suggestion that Jesus possibly may have existed is enough thought to enable the process of manifesting that reality.  You do not need to be religious to believe in Jesus, or to think that he probably existed, this I learned from observing some of my closest family members.  I am not denying that these psychics saw Jesus, for I am sure they did.  I am simply saying that the collective thought that he did exist among the Christian and Catholic population(which is extremely large) is enough energy to allow this character Jesus to manifest for those psychicly looking back to pick up on.  Just as it is likely that a psychic looking back to the time of Chrishna, or Buddha, or any of the other 16 "sons of god" would pick up on the energies of these characters.  Not because they existed in reality, but because the mass conscious thought that they did exist allowed that energy to manifest.


    Perhaps this is true.  Either way in any case, its a pretty pointless debate since like i said in my first reply on this thread...

Quote:
Personally, i don't think the existence or non existence of Jesus can be totally and completely objectively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt on either side


  Yet, you seem awfully attached to trying to prove that Jesus did not exist?   Psychologically i find this interesting.   

  Btw, its no "proof" and its still highly controversial in the scientific world, but i would suggest a very deep, objective, and multi-perspective study of the Shroud of Turin.    There are many interesting things about this though it hasn't been completely refuted nor completely proven either. 

   Its a very complex subject and study, and a sunday researcher will be either confused or easily and prematurely persuaded on either side of the issue, if many sources are not consulted and reasoned over.  I still haven't completely made up my mind on this issue, but i find the debate and arguments on both sides quite fascinating.

   Take care, i won't be responding to this thread anymore, i have better things to do than to argue the existance or non existence of Jesus, which cannot be completely proved either way to my knowledge and perception.  It ultimately comes down to what a person "resonates" to within their own expanded Heart.

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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #35 - Jan 7th, 2007 at 10:16pm
 
OOBD, I respectfully think that this subject is pretty much punching a brick wall made of diamond.  The more one argues against Jesus, the more some believe that Satan has returned to destroy the world.  From what I have seen, attacking just loads the belts with ammo for arguements like "persecution", "Satan is trying to destroy the truth", etc.  (Remember, Christian is a fairly broad term today so I don't label all to be like this)

Thats how simple I can explain it.  Stop fighting a phantom battle and focus your energies on what really matters inside your heart (I will not tell you what THAT is because no two persons are the same.)  Wink

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I Am Dude
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #36 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 12:20am
 
Quote:
Yet, you seem awfully attached to trying to prove that Jesus did not exist?   Psychologically i find this interesting.   


Understand, this was simply a challenge put forth by Berserk.  Please realise that I have believe in Jesus for my whole life until I discovered the true nature of the subject of Religion, which was only about three months ago.  I am not trying to convince myself of anything, as you seem to be implying in the above statement, for I have been on both sides of the spectrum.  I simply find this a friendly debate that I am semi passionate about, and I am continuing it simply because I am finding that I am learning a lot with every new post and every challenge put in front of me.  It may be a subject that cannot be 100% proven either way, but I find it a fun discussion nevertheless.
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #37 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 11:55am
 
Yet, you seem awfully attached to trying to prove that Jesus did not exist?   Psychologically i find this interesting

I don't know Dude's reasons (though Don's question seems to be the immediate one), but my purposes in wanting proof that Jesus at least may not have existed is that his supposedly irrefutable existence is used to strong-arm people. 

Now, I live in a Dutch/Christian reformed area, where taking non-believers out to be shot (but only after they were given a chance to see the one truth, of course) wouldn't upset all that many, so I may be ultra touchy on this subject, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if the people who make the rules around here didn't have what they consider an unimpeachable reason to club me with their religion. 

It's only been the last five or six years that gas stations and other businesses were allowed to stay open on Sundays, pretty much forcing everyone (only town of any size around here) to toe the establishment line.  For the working poor who often only had Sunday off, not being able to get car parts, shop for groceries, etc., was a real hardship.  One of the reasons they got away with this so long is because no one dared propose changing the law...because the establishment had proof that their religion was the right and only one, so they were better and got to make the rules.  Sounds fairly minor, not like ethnic cleansing or anything, but still a very real PITA for a lot of people.  There was a time not many centuries ago that the established Christian religion did feel that they had a right to what would be considered ethnic cleansing now...because the book was irrefutable right and gave them top dog status.  People just don't do well when given that sort of power.  It's a people thing, not the fault of a given religion...Islam gets used that way too, obviously, but lets not give them ammo.

I'm pagan, and while there are the occasional internecine spats and witch wars, no one is saying anyone else's gods aren't real...and the same for their own...and no one cares if anyone else believes in Jesus.  Just don't try to prove he's more real than ours with bad data, and then use that "fact" to say believers should get to set the rules for society.  If there wasn't the history of power grabs we probably wouldn't even care about that...beleive what you will is pretty much our motto, if they could just be convinced not to care what we believe either.  Sadly, experience has proved that very unlikely.
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #38 - Jan 8th, 2007 at 6:34pm
 
OOBD, I respectfully think that this subject is pretty much punching a brick wall made of diamond.  The more one argues against Jesus, the more some believe that Satan has returned to destroy the world.  From what I have seen, attacking just loads the belts with ammo for arguements like "persecution", "Satan is trying to destroy the truth", etc.  (Remember, Christian is a fairly broad term today so I don't label all to be like this)
*****************
Such is life today in America...
Isn't it ironic then, that the hulking, hollow-eyed, grinning, lantern-jawed, clad-from-head-to-toe-in-black-body-armor
cop who smashes your head in in the year 2025 A.D. (because you were protesting the new national 6 o'clock curfew, or mandatory monthly colon check for drugs, or whatever) is likely going to be a devout evangelical Christian (who views YOU as a hell-bound heathen to boot..!)

B-man
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #39 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 2:06am
 
Here are the real parallels of Horus and Jesus... the first list was just a scrub list, this is the real deal.  Lets see some explanations for these.

Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:

(format= subject: Horus..........Jesus)

Conception: By a virgin.......By a virgin. 8
Father: Only begotten son of the God Osiris............ Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).
Mother: Meri.................. Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).
Foster father: Seb, (Jo-Seph).................  Joseph.
Foster father's ancestry: Of royal descent......... Of royal descent.
Birth location: In a cave............. In a cave or stable.
Annunciation: By an angel to Isis, his mother.............. By an angel to Miriam, his mother. 8
Birth heralded by: The star Sirius, the morning star.......... An unidentified "star in the East."
Birth date: Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (typically DEC-21)  Celebrated on DEC-25............. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.
Birth announcement: By angels............. By angels. 8
Birth witnesses: Shepherds............... Shepherds. 8
Later witnesses to birth: Three solar deities.............. Three wise men. 8
Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered.............. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." .................An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
Rite of passage ritual: Horus came of age with a special ritual,  when his eye was restored.................. Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.
Age at the ritual: 12.............. 12
Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30............ No data between ages of 12 & 30.
Baptism location: In the river Eridanus................ In the river Jordan.  
Age at baptism: 30............... 30.
Baptized by: Anup the Baptiser................ John the Baptist.
Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded................... Beheaded.
Temptation: Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut (a.k.a. Set) was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan.............. Taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain by his arch-rival Satan.
Result of temptation: Horus resists temptation.............. Jesus resists temptation.
Close followers: Twelve disciples.................. Twelve disciples.
Activities: Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power."................ Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command.
Raising of the dead: Horus raised Osirus, his dead father,  from the grave............10 Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.
Location where the resurrection miracle occurred: Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually............... 10 Hebrews added their prefix for house ('beth") to "Anu" to produce "Beth-Anu" or the "House of Anu." Since "u" and "y" were interchangeable in antiquity, "Bethanu" became "Bethany," the location mentioned in John 11.
Origin of Lazarus' name in the Gospel of John:   Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus." 10
Transfigured: On a mountain............ On a high mountain.
Key address(es): Sermon on the Mount............ Sermon on the Mount; Sermon on the Plain.
Method of death By crucifixion.......... By crucifixion.
Accompanied by: Two thieves. ............Two thieves.
Burial In a tomb............. In a tomb.
Fate after death: Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.......... Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days.
Resurrection announced by: Women........... Women.
Future: Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.......... Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.



Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:

Nature" Regarded as a mythical character.......... Regarded as a 1st century CE human man-god.
Main role: Savior of humanity..............  Savior of humanity.  
Status: God-man............. God-man.
Common portrayal: Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus............... Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.
Title: KRST, the anointed one............... Christ, the anointed one.
Other names: The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower................ The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.
Zodiac sign: Associated with Pisces, the fish................... Associated with Pisces, the fish.
Main symbols: Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook................ Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.


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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #40 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 2:45am
 
After reading this, you may change your minds.

Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs. Following a star would lead you in circles. The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin. That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses.

Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road. "Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure" ? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.

It is intuitively satisfying to think that someone was behind the towering legend. Yet like the worship of Horus or Mithras a human life was neither necessary nor helpful. Nothing in the 'Christian message' was original. Brotherly love and compassion had been taught by the Stoics for centuries. The Christian faith was a vulgarised paganism, set to the theme of the Jewish prophets and debased by religious intolerance. The early Christian sects attacked each other as energetically as they attacked pagans. 1st century Palestine had rabbis, radicals and rebels in abundance. But a 'life' conjured up from mystical fantasy, a mass of borrowed quotations, copied story elements and a corpus of self-serving speculation, does not constitute an historical reality. The final defeat of militant Jewish nationalism and the eradication of the Jewish kingdom gave the incipient Christian churches the final uplift they required.

There never was just one Christianity. Out of the milieu of religiosity that infected the Roman world, dozens of competing and conflicting Jesus/Sun-god/Mystery cults emerged. The first believers in Jesus maintained he was an ethereal spirit, much like other sky/sun-gods. Only later did he acquire a human death, a human life and finally a human birth. The composite 'Jesus Christ' character – god, man, king, carpenter, conqueror, peace-maker, dispenser of justice, advocate of love – was assembled to try and unify a fragmented and fractious messianic religious movement. In the mid-2nd century the Jewishness of the faith was purged but apologists had little to say about a human Jesus. They took comfort in noting similarities between their own ideas and pagan myths. The Christians remained a minority until well after one particular faction formed a political alliance with the Roman State. The orthodox creed remained unpopular for centuries and persecution was necessary to impose its will.

Through the centuries, the Christian godman has been made and remade. Egypt provided many of the themes and much of the detail. From the age of the Ptolemies, Alexandria was the ancient cooking pot of religious fusion. Here, Hellenized Judaism influenced the early Christians. From Egypt, Catholicism copied its rituals and ceremonies, including relics, demonology, and monasticism. The Patriarchs of Alexandria wrote much of Catholic theology and it was probably in Alexandria that a profound and detailed Buddhist influence impressed itself upon the faith. From Persia, too, came a Saviour God and notions of rebirth, a Mithraic dress rehearsal for Christianity, triumphant in Rome but fatally weakened by its exclusion of women. In Judaea itself, hatred for the Roman conquerors bred a genre of apocolyptic curses, anticipating an end of the world.

The Israelites did not come from Egypt – a palpable myth – but emerged from the local population. There was no ancient 'Jewish Empire': the Jewish priests drew their inspiration from the empire of the Assyrians and "Judaism" was a reaction to the loss of the northern kingdom and an instructive period spent in Babylon. Jerusalem in 10th century BC had been barely a village of huts and cave dwellings. Kings David and Solomon are purely mythical characters – warrior/priest heroes, invented in the 6th century BC. Herod the Great was a real king – but he did not massacre any babies. He was an astute and successful ruler. The Herodians and the Jewish elite became Romanized but religious fanatics led an armed resistance which ended in catastrophies under Titus, Trajan, and Hadrian. In the aftermath, a collaborationist revision of Judaism, later attributed to a 13th apostle "Paul", allegedly of impeccable Pharisaic credentials, competed fiercely with a reconstituted rabbinic Judaism which fused piety with mercantile success.

Eye Witness Reports? 
Human ingenuity and cunning is matched by mankind's equally monumental credulity and wishful thinking.

There are actually some 200 gospels, epistles and other books concerning the life of Jesus Christ. Writing such material was a popular literary form, particularly in the 2nd century. The pious fantasies competed with Greek romantic fiction. Political considerations in the late 2nd century led to the selection of just four approved gospels and the rejection of others. After three centuries of wrangling 23 other books were accepted by the Church as divinely inspired. The rest were declared 'pious frauds'. In truth, the whole lot belongs to a genre of literary FICTION.

Would the Christians lie? They said it themselves – lying for God! And non-Christian testimony? – from the authentic pen of lying Christian scribes! Would the early believers have died for a lie? Consider the evidence for that supposed "persecution": Holy Mother Church invented heroic origins.

Laugh or cry? The pork salesman who became England's patron saint - the fabrication of "Saint George". Shrouded in deceit – Leonardo da Vinci's Last Laugh. How a sacrilegious 'sorcerer' outwitted the priests! Declared fake – Official! The "James Ossuary". How an Israeli entrepreneur outwitted the 'experts'. With multiple authors behind the original gospel story it is no surprise that the figure of "Jesus" is a mess of contradictions. Yet the story is so thinly drawn, that inventing alternative endings and conspiracy theories is a thriving industry

Church organisation, authority and membership preceded rather than followed the justifying doctrine. As the organisation and its needs changed so has the ‘Testament of God’ adapted accordingly.

A triumphant Christianity was the active agent in destroying knowledge and access to learning. An ignorant and impoverished population was more readily subjugated by Princes of the Church. "Mark" – Bringing the Celestial Superjew Down to Earth Switching the Messiah from future hope to "historic past". Copying the Competition – The Mythical "Virgin Mary". Vesta, Diana, Artemis, Isis – the pagan world knew all about virgins getting pregnant by randy gods. The Roman Church Asserts Authority – The Mythical "St Peter". How ambitious bishops in Rome laid claim to a Palestinian fantasy.  "Matthew" – A Gospel for Messianic Jews Belt and braces. Adding a "royal genealogy" and "fulfillment of prophesy". "Luke" – A Gospel for Credulous Pagans. Playing to the gallery. Absolving Rome and embellishing the "birth" and "death" scenes. "Brother James" – Radical Jew Sanitized into Pious Christian Martyr. Throwing some light on the supposed brother in the supposed ossuary. "John" – A Gospel to Silence the Gnostics Mid-2nd century: the Catholic ecclesia write a rebuttal to the rival church of Valentinus.

From religious policeman to grandee of the church, from beast fighter in Ephesus to beheading in Rome, Paul's story has more holes than a swiss cheese. A detailed study of the great missionary that some say "founded Christianity".

The trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle, St Paul, appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age. Ironically, though supposedly in Jerusalem at the right time, he can give no witness to a historical Jesus. But was Paul himself a genuine historical figure? Viewed without the rose-tinted spectacles of Christian faith, the first voyage of Paul is as fanciful as the first voyage of Sinbad. The later Pauline journeys, including the supposed transportation of the apostle to Rome, are similarly bogus. Characterized by incongruities, contradiction, and the absurd, they are a concocted fantasy. The Pauline epistles, far from being genuine letters, originated in the acrimonious doctrinal battles of the 2nd century – a time when "pseudepigraphy" and forged apostolic writings were weapons in the war of "Christianities". 

Orchestrated by ambitious Christian clerics, a cancer of superstition, fear and brutality was imposed across Europe.

As it waited in the wings of pagan Rome, the Catholic Church was already marked by corruption, violence and sexual scandal. The fanatics of Christ proved useful to an ambitious prince who set his sights on absolute and undivided power. The Church expropriated the resources – both human and material – which might have defended Roman civilization. While an indolent army of clerics lived on the state, the impoverished legions degenerated into a peasant militia. Once a particular Christianity – hierarchical and authoritarian – became wedded to the Roman state, it became a force of brutal repression. Romano-Hellenic culture was transformed by the "Church Fathers" by bigotry, anti-Semitism, censorship and intolerance. This so-called 'orthodoxy' suppressed and persecuted its 'heretical' opposition. The barbarian tribes that overran the weakened Roman Empire were, for the most part, Christianised; the forces that opposed them, pagan.

The Christian Heaven may have been a vain folly but the Christian Hell has been real enough.

The priestly "protection racket" required the criminalizing of the whole of humanity through the doctrine of Sin. In a world run by clerical gangsters, the writ of Holy Mother Church was enforced by sadism and torture. For more than a thousand years, the henchmen of Christ inflicted a cruel barbarism on every community they encountered. Law was replaced by Divine Right, scientific method criminalized, ancient medical knowledge lost for a millennium. Women, fortunate to be domestic slaves, might find themselves in enforced celibacy, joyless marriage or burnt as a witch. Roasting heretics became popular entertainment and a religious duty. 

Raised to the status of State religion the Christian Church reigned over the destruction of civilization. As the centuries passed religious barbarism grew ever more vicious.

In their struggle for power, Christians waged their own "civil war". A Catholic trinitarian nonsense triumphed over Arianism. The intellectual centres of the empire were ruined by murder and prohibition and Europe sank into ignorance and superstition. The civilization that had stretched from the deserts of Arabia to the highlands of Scotland reverted to a primitive village subsistence. By aggressive warfare, Christianisation of the heathen tribes followed. In Spain, the German lands, Britain, and Ireland, the despots of the Church imposed their tyranny.

With a Jewish father (stern patriarch) and a Christian mother (obsession with guilt and heaven) it is not surprising that Islam grew up a bit of a tartar.

Early civilizations arose in many parts of Arabia, long before Judaism, Christianity or Islam. Islam arose as an adaptation of old ideas, not something new. Yet initially, far from imposing a severe theocracy, the early caliphs were tolerant, even urbane. Despite the mutual hostility of kindred monotheisms, Islam endorsed a great deal of Judeo-Christian theology and adopted many of its practices. In its heyday, from the Atlantic to central Asia, Islam produced scholars and refinement. Europe's recovery owed a huge debt to Islamic civilization. Battered by both East and West the enlightenment failed and theology triumphed.

Christian knights brought savagery and racism to a whole new world. When gentle Jesus arrived in England's North American colonies, a motley crew of venture capitalists, criminals and self-righteous fanatics established a precarious existence. But a stolen land, worked by an enslaved labour force, cultivating drug crops, could not fail to enrich the colonial elite. Jesus was there when the American republic built the foundations of its economy on slavery and was re-packaged into a convenience Christianity suited to dreams of vast personal wealth. Today a bunch of crooks and hucksters, womanising egotists and dangerous megalomaniacs choreograph extravaganzas of Jesus frenzy. Alarmingly, they have serious political influence and an agenda for Armageddon. 
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #41 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 3:29am
 
[Dude:] "Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs."
_________________________

Duh, no!  Jesus' hometown of Nazareth is not only widely attested in the Gospels.  It was a source of ridicule by Jesus' opponents because of its small and rustic character.  If Christians wanted to invent Jesus' hometown, they would have chosen a less embarassing locale.  We have NON-CHRISTIAN Jewish sources for Nazareth's existence in the first cnentury!  For example, the priestly family named Hapizez fled there from Jerusalem after the Roman legions closed in on Jerusalem in 66 AD (Mishmaroth 18).  There are many casual references to trips to Nazareth in the first few Christian centuries.  Archaeologists have even been able to establish the village's approximate area (60 acres) and population (about 480)!   You really don't have a clue, do you?

When I agreed to engage you in this discussion, I initially assumed you had actually read at least the Gospels and the actual ancient sources relevant to its illumination.  But after reading your recent posts, I now realize the extent of your illiterate presumption and regret engaging you in this way.  I intended to playfully expand your horizons, not to humiliate you.   My God, please read any standard New Testament introduction (e. g. Raymond Brown, "An Introduction to the New Testament." It really is unseemly to dogmatically rave on as you do without having read the New Testament or the basic ancient texts that shed light on its historical background.  Do you even pretend to consider yourself  open-minded on these issues?

I have decisively refuted your pagan savior parallels in my thread and will not bother to spend the time to refute your new batch googled without acknowledgement.   You claimed to have access to the ancient texts themselves.  But you cannot quote a single text to defend this new batch.  That's because they twist the evidence and cannot be be found as such.  Prove me wrong!  In any case, my thread proves that even these would be irrelevant even if valid!  You cannot duck the hard positive evidence for Jesus' existence which I will shortly begin to provide in spades.

Don
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #42 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 5:04am
 
Jesus and Christianity revealed as a mystical fact - I would say is a more appropriate title to this work  Smiley

Dude your research into ancient Egypt and Christianity is excellent; I am sure this will enrich your knowledge further in the afterlife.  Don your knowledge is respected and admired.  I cannot actually see where there is any point of disagreement here between your two posts and think both your understanding of Christianity and how it has evolved in the hands of mencompliment one another.

And this is my point 'in the hands of men'.  Dude everything you have written about 'against' has come about through power struggles between men using God's name as a tool to wield their thirst to gain control over people.

Imagine how God must feel about this?

This is why the Mystical fact of Christianity went underground and became secular - for the very reason of guarding the sacredness against the follies and power hunger men and organisations which use God's name for their own personal gain.

And as the Mystical facts of Christianity come to light - people associate Christianity with the History of Crime as opposed to the Invisible History.  For example; most people associate Christianity with the Roman Church and the Pope assuming this is the authority on Christianity.  No offence intended at all.  If we look at the word Religion - it means covering; religion means covering.  And we must ask ourselves what is it covering?  It is covering Christianity as a Mystical fact. 

Some organisations did not want their members to gain knowledge of higher kingdoms for fear of loosing the control they had over them.  Personal knowledge is individual empowerment. 

But we cannot today hold the past as a contention - it is not healthy and does not advance growth in evolution; besides things happen for a reason.   People learn great things while in Earth and upon translating into spirit and coming back again into Earth - they have gone through a metamorphose of personality and character through this experience.  New soil is under their feet and new understanding is in their hearts.  For this everyone must be respected.

I do think though it is incorrect to judge God upon the actions of men.  The actions of people should be the judge of the fruit reaped or not reaped through personal knowledge attained in growth and evolution. 

I also think it is sad to argue whether there is a God Christ because anyone who has felt the love of Christ will tell you it is in those quite moments of contemplation and in those moments of despair and in those moments of confusement and uncertainty when the Spirit of Christ touches the heart and says : 'Come on cheer up; I am your guide and your pillar of strength you can lean upon me for support'.  This is the Mystical fact which becomes a Joy to the heart.

Dude; your Egyptian research shows us the Golden Thread of Creation.  For God reveals himself throughout history with this assurance of stability and re-birth so we can follow this Thread with confidence in the similarities of His Divine Plan.  Yesterday, today and tomorrow is the corner stone guidance of God.

Smiley my offerings to the table.














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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #43 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 5:18am
 
[Dude:] "Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs."
_________________________

Wow!  Your New Age sources border on the psychotic!  Jesus' hometown of Nazareth is not only widely attested in the Gospels.  It was a source of ridicule by Jesus' opponents because of its small and rustic character.  If Christians wanted to invent Jesus' hometown, they would have chosen a less embarassing locale.  We have NON-CHRISTIAN Jewish sources for Nazareth's existence in the first cnentury!  For example, the priestly family named Hapizez fled there from Jerusalem after the Roman legions closed in on Jerusalem in 66 AD (Mishmaroth 18).  There are many casual references to trips to Nazareth in the first few Christian centuries.  Archaeologists have even been able to establish the village's approximate area (60 acres) and population (about 480)!

When I agreed to engage you in this discussion, I initially assumed you had actually read at least the Gospels and the actual ancient sources relevant to its illumination.  But after reading your recent posts, I now realize the extent of your illiterate presumption and regret engaging you in this way.  I intended to playfully expand your horizons, not to humiliate you.   My God, please read any standard New Testament introduction (e. g. Raymond Brown, "An Introduction to the New Testament." It really is unseemly to dogmatically rave on as you do without having read the New Testament or the basic ancient texts that shed light on its historical background.  Do you even pretend to consider yourself  open-minded on these issues?

Don
*****************
Much of what Dude is posting is not "New Age", Don. I've read
many of the same ideas in such publications as Skeptical
Inquirer (the official publication of CSICOP) and Free Inquiry.
(Not exactly magazines you'd expect find in the same house
with some hippie's collection of love beads, runestones and
healing crystals...)
Hope you don't think Dude is "possessed by Satan" or something.
(I wonder if he WAS, could he do that cool 360 degree thing
with his neck and create pea soup ex nihilo..?)
You mention OPEN-MINDEDNESS, Don. Open-mindedness is a
great thing, unless you get SO open-minded, that your brains
fall out. You ridicule "New Age" beliefs and call them psychotic.
But YOU believe:
-A man could be born from a VIRGIN, with no sperm (OOOooooh,
that must have hurt when her hymen was busted open from the
***wrong end***)...
-A man ("Lazarus") could be "raised" as an undead zombie after three
days in a tomb (complete with the expected B.O.!!!)
-For some inexplicable reason, this "perfect new "Adam", the son of "God" Himself in human flesh, this paragon of "Divine Wisdom" curses a fig tree for not having figs out of season (it is bad enough when you consider that "He" is behaving exactly like I did the time I kicked that chair (at the age of eight) after stubbing my toe on it... but since "Jesus" CREATED the fig tree to be out of season that time of year, it is DOUBLY weird and disturbing. That sounds like something Charles Manson would do - ANOTHER professed "godman", BTW...)
-And finally, JESUS himself comes a-crawlin' out of his grave after
three days also. Complete with unhealed, un-painful, non-healing bodily damage from his crucifixion... just like you'd expect a reanimated Hollywood ghoul to have
(George Romero woulda LOVED this!) in his hands and feet. If everybody REALLY believed stuff like this (but most "Christians" don't really, it is a "Sunday Truth") I'd imagine property values around graveyards would drop like a rock. (Maybe the story would have been more fun, if Jesus had "risen" with a thirst for brains...)
-The list goes on and on!!!
Heck, compared to believing in "crystal power" or what have you, being a sincere Christian requires belief in things that ordinarily would get you hauled off by men in white coats, Don. SO...
Once again, beware that glass house you're in! It's already taken a few returned hits from the very stones you're throwing. (Is that a
crack I see..?)

B-man
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Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY ARE REVEALED AS MYTH
Reply #44 - Jan 9th, 2007 at 5:33am
 
Roll Eyes
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