Hi Tim,

I find that Don does not seem to grasp the subtle humor behind your comments.  Such as when you mentioned a hearty hello to see Ra back posting, and greeted him with an electric joy buzzer in your hand for his off-color remarks.  Or the time when you talked of bullying about someone else's comments, but D mistook it for himself (it was clear on re-reading it to all).

You have it together my friend; Buddhist or spiritual seeker, people like you and Blink on this site speak from the heart to those who would listen.  You certainly do not condone demeaning comments, yet you flow with the game in this dualistic world, forum, and universe.  

For all of you young ones out there when you read Tim, there is much you can learn.

And I too am glad to have Don back posting, as Tim is.  Tim talked of it just "feeling" right to have Ra express himself in such a vulgar way.  I disagree with that personally, but it "feels" right to have Don here, and Brendan.  Will any of the characters here change, or evolve their points of view?  Maybe not in the short term, but we are all on a course for change and growth.


Matthew

I have seen an angel right outside of my bedroom while out of body lol.  Angels can been seen by all out of body travelers I beleive, it is only the souls who are caught up in the lower planes of the afterlife who cannot percieve them, for the angels vibrations are too high and the lost soul's vibrations are too low to perceive the higher beings.  If an out of body traveller has not seen an angel, I believe it is not because they cannot reach the higher place, but because they have not.  I am nothing special, if I can reach higher planes than theres no reason any other OBErs cannot.  But I do agree that in most cases you need to be on their level of light and vibrations in order to see them.  I have never seen an angel in the lower, darker realms, but only in the high realms full of light.

The dna in mankind has been fixed in the way that it has so that you grow old.
It was done purposly, no accident.

Um .. good discussions over all the threads.  So I'll just pipe up here now ..

God and His exalted Son Christ is Omnipresent in everything and everyone.  It is up to each individual to seek and find this for themselves; whether we are in body or out of body.

God made man in His image - the image of God is not an alien image.  The future body of man is to be invisible.

Gman why do you lack love in your heart?  Why do you use labels when the very people who speak like you created these labels to deface all that is good and fair ...? 

Identcat, I'll go read it. it must have gotten overlooked. I think every post should be responded to here, but we all seem to be focusing on separate directions and we like to talk more then listen to each other..human nature you know. It's probably a great post as all of your posts are good to me.

eggshellseas2 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 8:30pm:


Here is a simple test that you can take which will allow you to understand why there is no God the way most Christians see Him.  Meaning there is no Him.

You obviously believe in the power of prayer.  In fact, 3 out of 4 doctors believe God is performing medical miracles on earth right now.  Most Christians believe that god is curing cancers, healing diseases, and so on.

So here is the first question:
1.  Why won't God heal amputees?

We all know that amputees limbs do not regenerate in response to prayer.
If you are an intelligent person, you have to admit that it's an interesting question.
On one hand, you know that God answers prayers and performs miracles.
On the other hand, you know that God completely ingnores amputees when they pray for miracles.
If you are an intelligent person, you have to deal with this discrepancy because it makes no sense. 
In order to handle it, you have to make up some kind of rationalization.  You have to invent some kind of exuse on God's behalf in order to explain this strange fact of life.
You may say, "God must have a special plan for amputees", or somthing along those lines.  Then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable.

Since you believe in God answering prayers, heres the next question:

2. Why are there so many starving people in the world?

Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring the prayers of these desperate starving humans?

Does it make sense? Why would a loving God do this?
Once again, you must search for an explanation.  "God wants them to starve and die for some divine, mysterious reason."
Then you push it out of your mind because it absolutely does not fit with your view of a loving, caring God.

3. Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

Exodus 35:2- God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.
Deuteronomy 21:18- God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers
Leviticus 20:13- God demands the death of homosexuals
Deuteronomy 22:13-21- God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry.
And so on.  There are lots of verses like these.

Does it make sense? Would a loving God want you to murder your fellow human beings for such trivial matters?
Its insane.  So you think of an explanation to make yourself more comfortable with it.

4. Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

For example:
God did not create the world in 6 days 6000 years ago like the Bible says.
There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says.
Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says.
God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says.

It makes no sense, so you create some type of very strange excuse to explain why the Bible contains such nonsense.

5. Why was God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible?

You have to come up with a weird rationalization to explain it.

There are many more questions, but hopefully you get the picture at this point. 

Hi Dude.

You actually raised some good Questions.  I'm on the fence on some of them.  However, I think this is really a discussion that's slightly out of focus.  God can be a "him" or a "her" - simply based on the believer.  that's my opinion.  I think of life of having a Divine Source (ultimate consciousness, God, whatever you call it) that manifests to people as they have the language to understand.  Like a dream, if you will. You have dreams that talk to you in your own mental language.   

To play devil's advocate here....
1. The Amputee question:
   Let's ask another question.  Why do some people respond to healing and not science?  How does someone with terminal cancer get "healed" from some sort of spiritual practice?  Is it the product of the mind? Is the mind that powerful? if it is... then the mind should be able to regrow new limbs.  Curing Cancer and cellular regrowth is very similar in concept.  If one is possible why not the other?  Perhaps, it's the scope.  The leap of faith is too great to cause a healing of the amputee... this leap of faith being the failure for either system of healing (by a God or by the person's own mind.) 

2. Starving People.. I'll play devil's advocate here (hehe play on words )
  Although I wouldn't call myself a Christian, having a father for a minister, I can a test that the Christian faith doesn't support that God is cruel, but that the Christian concept of God espouses that Free Will is the greatest gift to any being.  The gift being granted to humankind, created the famine you see today. We may not agree, but it is a logical reason based on the system of faith.  I'm sure other religions have similar concepts that due to Free Will people chose greed over love and the stranglehold shaped itself into the physical world in forms of famine, etc.
  For a different (nont Western Religion) take: In Buddhism (incidently which doesn't believe in a Divine or Surpreme Source), the Mahayana School (The Dalai Lama is Mahayana Buddhist, to give an idea of what they are - to those who may not know)  believes that our world is an illusion of the mind.  There is a real world out there, but we see it through illusions based on our karma. So you say "I see a world of famine" and the Buddhist would say, "you created it, take responsibility for it."  They'd say YOU are the one responsible, if YOU see the problem. That's just another interesting take on world views. Thought I'd share.  I kinda like the Buddhist response.  Further, in that line of thought, if you were to "clean up your karma" and become enlightened, you may not have a reality where famine exists.  The idea is called "Emptiness." 

3. The Death Problem
Yeah I've had this same problem with the Old Testament - and i Agree with you, it's a problem that sticks in my craw as well. However, I just don't condemn or look to judge another's belief system.  I'd rather suggest you stay positive with people you don't agree with - i.e. a Fundy Christian, and focus on the teachings of Love and compassion (ala Jesus.)  There's no real value in scorching someone's beliefs.

4. Anti-Scientific Nonsense
To play devils advocate again... The Bible doesn't... The Bible has a 6 day creation of existence. But what is a day?    The sun, the galaxies, nothing existed, but it references  a 6 day creation... perhaps a day to the Christian God, is a 100 billion years to us?  It's a metaphore... and as such can't be held to scientific debate.  Also the Bible makes no claim that all creation started 6k years ago. That's a Fundy assertion.  People who try and make the metaphors of the Bible, scientific. 
Each of the examples you give is a good metaphor... think of a man being created from mud or dirt... that's similar to the concept of a primordeal soup.  Or even to certain ideas on evolution.  it's clever. a concept that could be understood 2000 years ago, as well as today.  A flood covering the earth... each culture in the world has a flood story... so who's to say it didn't happen.  A man in the stomach of a whale for 3 days... well, stranger things have happened.  Consider your own faith in Aliens and implants (i sneaked a peak at a dif post of yours) I'd consider that a man living in a whale by divine operation and a alien pulling out your left eye and dropping a device down your eye socket - amount to the same category - faith

and besides, a Scientific skeptic would wag his finger at you on your beliefs of Aliens, OBE's and retrievals saying they're all mental fantasies.  It's not very nice is it? 

Basically you can ask quesitons all day long about someone's belief system.   They can do it to you.  Do you think the scientific community would look at this message board and say "there's a group of wise folks"?  No way. They'd offer similar questions to OBE's, NDE's, Angels, Demons, and so on.

The wisest thing to do, is live in peace, and mentally go in separate ways.  There's no value in this line of questioning.  None.  What if you converted this person(s) to an atheist?  So what?  What if they agree with you now?  The only redeeming value there is Ego.  yours.  There's no purpose to "winning" this argument.  It does no good.  "Now they think like me"  Great.  And that makes them... any happier?  What if they don't swing to your view? Then this is just a waste of your energy. 

Believe in what you believe... and if you disagree, ask some questions but don't get to the whole "that religion is flawed" tactic, as nothing good comes from it... and ultimately, you'll reap the karma for that line of thought/questions.  You'll have your own "dude" in your life who will condemn all your beliefs and mock them and question them. 

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 10^th, 2007 at 1:42am: