[Dude:]: "You must be crazy." 
_________________________
I love it.  You use an insult to deny that you are ever insulting!  Kinda like Muslims enraged by the charge that Islam is a violent faith.   Not only is this unfair to the Koran, they warn, but they'll kill you if you disagree!

[Dude: ] ."The facts that lucifer does not exist are so obvious that reading a book claiming he does exist is the equivallent to reading a book claiming that jesus is real.... its the equivalent to reading a book about the easter bunny."
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More ridicule to compensate for your incarceration in the New Age ghetto.  So a historical illiterate like you compares belief that Jesus is real with belief in the Easter bunny.  Duh, make your case and I'll respond.  So far all I get from you is mindless bluster unseasoned by any modicum of rigor and documentation. 

Reading comprehension is clearly one of your deficiencies.  I just informed you that Lucifer is not a biblical term for Satan.  Yet you mischaracterize my request that you read Malachi Martin as a way to defnnd Lucifier's existence.  Again, yoiu prejudge and ridicule what threatens your New Age perspective. Malachi Martin provides real case studies, not pious cliches.   Just read him and try to show that you have some grasp of the nature of logical inference.  I'm saying you don't know what you're talking about and reading Martin will give you a chance to make me retract my claim on the issue of Satan. 

Don

  Haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to add my 3 cents in.  

 I use to believe much as Recoverer seems to believe (from my interpretation of what he wrote), that we all have the same innate potential, that we were all created equally in that sense.

 While i do believe that we are all part of each other, my views on creation have changed a bit here and there.  

 When i read Bruce's 4th book, i was surprised to find a vision of creation very similar to the one i had formulated over the years of going within, synthesizing various parts of different sources which felt "right", etc.  

  Basically i agree with Bruce, that Source was somewhat experimenting in the "beginning" with turning parts of itself into individuated conscious beings with freewill who ultimately had the purpose to go out to explore the unknown and to provide companionship to the Creator who seemed to have been awful lonely by itself as One undifferientiated Consciousness.  

 In Bruce's book, he talks about how some of the original beings weren't quite put together in an optimal way, and so they and their individual conscious awareness didn't initially survive the outpouring projection of seeming separation from Source, and some went out intact (as individual beings) but never came back has hoped by Source.  

  Yet One did go out and come back, while i'm not religious and believe in many different belief systems, especially along metaphysical and Eastern lines, i believe this one was the Christ Soul who later projected the personality known as "Jesus".

  It seems that this spark, which i will now refer to as the Creator Soul (C.S.), ended up Co-Creating with Source, the rest of the Universe and the Souls to inhabit it (just as we will graduate to becoming, Creator Gods of other Universes and realities).  

 It also seems that the C.S. decided to specifically create Retriever Souls with a powerful base of Love energy originally to go out to "rescue" these lost Souls (Bob and Bruce learned that they were one of these creations).   Then all various and unique Souls were manifested out of Source energy, with varying degrees and patterns of energy.  

   So, in a sense, not all souls were created with the same inherent potential.   There are lost souls out there, who it seems where created when the experiment was not optimal and it seems that Love was not strongly (or as a base) infused in with their consciousness...

 Cause it wasn't till the C.S. Spark came back, that the Creator realized how to make this plan work optimally and efficiently.  

 Unfortunately, it seems that some of these lost souls have had a very negative and stubborn pattern within various systems and within the Earth as well.   They tend to be rather selfish and destructive througout the pattern of their lifetimes and experiences...  Its like they don't know any better and have a hard time learning an easier way.  

 But this is why the C.S. and Source created the Retreiver Souls, to help guide them back to the Light.  Hopefully all will be guided back to the Light, but this is not necessarily written in stone, some may have to (and some already have?) lose their consciousness awareness as conscious, individual beings.

 So i believe this issue is not black and white, but somewhat more complex.  

Dude,  your proof that Jesus never even existed will be particularly interesting to me, since I received my Harvard PhD in Biblical Studies and Judaism and you are claiming something that even my non-Chrisitan professors there would summarily dismiss.  I hope you're not relying on Price's alleged scholarshihp.  No one in the academic field takes im seriously. I also hope you will invoke primary ancient texts rather than unaqulaified New Age debimlers.  I can already guess how you will mistate the evidence from Josephus.  I xxpect you to address the early rabbinic and Roman evidence and the early version of Jesus' life circulated by his detractors.  Sp bring it on, but, please, start a new thread.. 

You have pontificated on demonology enough to create a moral obligation that you read Malachi Martin's case histories in "Hostage to the Devil."  I will remind you of this until you agree to read it!  Otherwise, your rejection of the demonic festers at the level of New Age kooks who claim that the Apollo moon landing was faked in a New Mexico hangar. These New Agers dismiss al evidence to the contrary as part of the government's cover-up. 

Don

I am very disappointed.  Don, I expected you to be above this type of school boy banter.  Of course Jesus existed.  There is much in the Roman historical record to support the facts surrounding his earthly life.  But do you need to prove it in a separate thread? And must you hammer at Dude so?  Compared to others on the board, he has been gentle, not insulting (as I noted in another thread, I have invoked the peer moderator system against objectionable posts such as recent demeaning comments from Ra).  He (Dude) may have been dismissive of the existence of Satan, but he did not deny anyone their right to their beliefs.  Don, would it not have sufficed to point out that Juditha/Deanna's beliefs are to be respected, and end it at that? Dude, please save us the agony of starting a thread about the existence of Jesus.  Don will cite his sources, and in the end we will conclude that there was evidence for his having existed in the real world.  In fact, many of the most notable New Agers here stronly believe in JC, and have a deep reverence for him, Don.  You do know that, correct?


Don, if you are aware of PUL, as I know you are, there is no justification in trading insulting statements like these back and forth, even to make people think.  "Great unwashed new age ghetto herd..." I am so tired of that, Don.  I am part of the community here.  I have engaged you in your thread about NDEs with an earnest, scholarly approach full of references.  I did this in a friendly manner, to tell what I had found out, and to learn from you and others.  Why not use your considerable wit, research and insight in talking about afterlife issues - the truth speaks for itself.  Some of your responses are so heartfelt and full of grace - but these are few and far between compared to the verbal fencing laced with insults where you describe your opponent(s) as illiterate, with poor reading comprehension.

Can't you see Brendan's desparate cry for help?  In one of your answers you could.  He stubbornly creates thread after thread about a dark understanding of reality, the afterlife and soul annilation as the best course for a materialist like himself.  Any caring person can see though that he truly wants to find another path.  In only one of your responses to him do you mention a way out of this darkness - that was the key, not chiding him for his rejection of christianity.

Finally, the idea that we all must read Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil in order to have a fair discussion with you is uncalled for - though I always love to hear the recommended reading lists of others.  Dude believes in the demonic.  So do I. What is it that you want to establish with the reading of the case histories there?  If the origins of demons are less to the pont than the fact that they can do damage - ok, point well taken.  

I, for one, was looking forward to your answering Brendan's questions from the first post on this thread.  I'm sorry, but I tend to stay on track in these forums.  I can mix it up with the best of them, including yourself, Don, but I choose to keep it friendly, and laugh off the rest.  Please take these comments as they were meant; as a friend speaking who wishes to discover more about our spiritual path and cut out the insults.


Matthew

I will indeed start a new thread on this topic upon your request.   And I will also read Hostage to the Devil, as soon as I finish reading Hostage to the Easter Bunny.
*****************
I'll add that belief in the Easter Bunny has brought a LOT more
happiness over the past 2000 years, than belief in Jesus.
(After all, ever heard of the Easter Bunny throwing anybody
into a Lake of Fire? Or have you ever heard of a preacher
threatening people with eternal torture for not believing in
His Cotton-Tailedness..?)

B-man

I am very disappointed.  Don, I expected you to be above this type of school boy banter.  Of course Jesus existed.  There is much in the Roman historical record to support the facts surrounding his earthly life.  But do you need to prove it in a separate thread? And must you hammer at Dude so?  Compared to others on the board, he has been gentle, not insulting (as I noted in another thread, I have invoked the peer moderator system against objectionable posts such as recent demeaning comments from Ra).  He (Dude) may have been dismissive of the existence of Satan, but he did not deny anyone their right to their beliefs.  Don, would it not have sufficed to point out that Juditha/Deanna's beliefs are to be respected, and end it at that? Dude, please save us the agony of starting a thread about the existence of Jesus.  Don will cite his sources, and in the end we will conclude that there was evidence for his having existed in the real world.  In fact, many of the most notable New Agers here stronly believe in JC, and have a deep reverence for him, Don.  You do know that, correct?


Don, if you are aware of PUL, as I know you are, there is no justification in trading insulting statements like these back and forth, even to make people think.  "Great unwashed new age ghetto herd..." I am so tired of that, Don.  I am part of the community here.  I have engaged you in your thread about NDEs with an earnest, scholarly approach full of references.  I did this in a friendly manner, to tell what I had found out, and to learn from you and others.  Why not use your considerable wit, research and insight in talking about afterlife issues - the truth speaks for itself.  Some of your responses are so heartfelt and full of grace - but these are few and far between compared to the verbal fencing laced with insults where you describe your opponent(s) as illiterate, with poor reading comprehension.

Can't you see Brendan's desparate cry for help?  In one of your answers you could.  He stubbornly creates thread after thread about a dark understanding of reality, the afterlife and soul annilation as the best course for a materialist like himself.  Any caring person can see though that he truly wants to find another path.  In only one of your responses to him do you mention a way out of this darkness - that was the key, not chiding him for his rejection of christianity.
******************
The key issue here, Doc...
It is that NO known "afterlife scenario" lets ME be the ultimate
decider of where I'm gonna go, and what I'm gonna be.
Limitations, limitations, limitations...
To me, freedom is the ONLY real good, Doc.
Would I rather be annihilated than face an eternity of personal
roadblocks? Most emphatically, YES!!!
If I didn't think that way, hell... I'd have stayed in the Army.
(I'd be up for some pretty decent bennies pretty soon,
if I had..!) But I'm not a "groupie" kind of individual. I'd
rather be captain of my own ship, even if it means I'd
sail it into the rocks. If the traditional "God" exists, I won't
be able to do that, even if I'm not doomed to eternal
torture... hence my repeated misgivings about eternal
life.
Did that help make me more clear on this?

B-man

P.S. I don't think my seeking of after-death oblivion is a
"cry for help", Doc. (I mean... what could you do for me,
anyhow? If I'm doomed to torments eternal , what can YOU
do about it..?)
Besides, I find that when I contemplate oblivion... a deep
feeling of calm and relaxation comes over me. Why should
it not? I became an atheist when I was about 8 years old (my
dad did a pretty good de-bunking of Christianity for me, and
I will always be grateful to him for it. It wasn't until my 30's
that I seriously started to freak-out about Hell, ect. - AFTER I
got Internet access and began studying things metaphysical,
and realized that some very smart people  had some very
compelling reasons to believe that we DID "survive" physical
death... OBEs, NDEs, quantum physical concepts and so on...)
See now, why I can be comfortable with the thought of personal
annihilation? AND why the subject of the afterlife, has become
an intrusive and thoroughly unpleasant item on my thought
menu..?

I stared reading some of out of body journeys, and as I read I realized that he encountered some frightening creatures at times. Doesn't sound like it was a lways a pleasant time. Monroe himself even recited the Lords prayer during these travels.
They must have seemed demonic  or something. Its seemed like they saw his life, thats what it seems like to me when I read that. Like they could see he was a living being.

Quote:


How many times to you want to soil my name with your slanderous filth. 

I did not attempt to insult you via Swedenbozo.  Because of your strict loyalty to him, however, it is obvious to me that you would think such a thing.  I mean, are you his great great great great grandson???  Perhaps if you had some type of strong family ties to him, or if you worshiped him as a god, I could understand what I said about him to come off as an insult towards you.  But I very much doubt this is the case, so just lighten up. 

I never applied any negative words to the twins.  I applied those words towards the big red dope satan.  Insensative, you say?  Is that why the point of my posts was to allieviate them from their hold on this silly belief in order to free them from the negative energy associated with this thinking?  Because I strictly stated this in those posts.  Your "crude dude" filter probably blocked that out, however.