I shall always believe when you die you go to heaven and you meet jesus and also your departed loved ones as well .i know i will see my dad when my time comes i,m onl;y frightened of the actual dying process but not after death has occured my dad will be there to take my hand and i know he will ,yes i believe their is a hell but only for murderers who have taken someones life on the earth plane i beleive everyone else goes to our lord in heaven ,i love god and i have my faith in him and while i have that i will be okay when i die  . love deanna

Perhaps we should end this thread before someone gets hurt.  I started it not to cause a fight, simply to discuss some things about swedenbogus that I felt that with your(Berserks) great knowledge of him, you could possibly give some type of explanation for the questionable aspects of his work.  And of course, I felt the need to step up to the plate in Monroes defense because of the amount of respect I have for him and his work.  I admitt, I may have written some things that someone who worshiped Swedenburger may have taken to be offensive, but I did not think anyone here fit that discription.  I suppose this is not a place to have a sense of humor?  I in no way made this a personal issue.  It seems like noone can speak badly about swedenbag, or even question him, without it turning into a series of personal attacks... this I noticed the first time I read the first ten page post about him, and now it is again occuring here.  This man is no god, is he really worth all of this?  We all know the answer.

Hi aylsia thanks for telling me about swedenborg lived in 18th century as i had never heard of him.

And i stand with you as well that we are safe in Gods love at all times,in life and death and that love is God

Love and God bless you aylsia       Love Juditha

I Am Dude wrote on Dec 29^th, 2006 at 3:45pm:


Humor is used within retrieval circumstances to disengage negative energy within the retrievee. its basically a tool both here and on the other side..the tool used to get the attention of the retrievee depends on what thought forms are within the retrievee which would respond to humor or another tool. The younger ones are more prone to be retrieved with humor I've noticed. They are not so ensconced within a tight belief system as the older ones who might be feeling the weight of their experiences.

All threads here and topics I have been told are of usefulness by spirit influences here, nonphysical helpers come to be trained right here on this board by such as our talk.
As well, on the other side, we lose our self image, and all secrets are revealed instantly, so we can all get used to being open books here, whether we perceive we have used humor wrongly, we can forgive if we are big enough to allow foregiveness to happen.
I find nothing wrong with your posts Dude. I believe you were sent here as each one who comes here the same. And Don is a part of our disc, or a neighboring disc. I see only that we all march towards greater awareness how easy it is to forgive each other and find that life, here and now, is the real celebration. we try to find our oneness. I'm sure it's there. I'll cast my eyes there and by doing that play my part.

I simply follow J, who forgave the ones who strung him high. I do not suppose ES would forgive me my trespasses like J would.

what a board...criminy...I do believe we need a breather. allow me to speak personally and I'll be grateful if other's feel the freedom to do so. I sense your kindness and appreciate it Dude.

Thing is Chum,

The negative mindless scenario is but one of many possibilities, and many other experiences documented refute the loss of memory scenario.  For me, the question is not how to train to annihilate my consciousness, but how to live in the here and now so that I may maintain my memories and intelligence in spirit. 

Initially, according to Swedenborg, we are privy to every memory of our earthly life - even those we may not remember hard as we try in the physical.  As our "masks" of outer concerns that we show to others every day on earth fall away, our inner concerns (what motivates us, drives us and makes us tick) become all the spirit concentrates on.  Thus, we may go from a state of total recall, to then become more involved in whatever our mind/heart really is all about, without much recall.  Even then, Swedenborg states that God lets us access moments of total memory of our earth life at times through divine grace. 

The other factor here, is help, assistance and instruction from loved ones, helpers....angels perhaps for lack of a better term.  If we led a good life, and tried to practice the golden rule and love of others and God, there is no source not Swendbarf I mean Swedenborg, not the bible, not any other reputable source that condemns us to memory loss, or lunacy. 


Matthew

  The idea that we lose our memories, etc. in the afterlife is not believable to me. For example, if I go on a hike in a beautiful wilderness area, or in a beautiful and orderly park, I might become so entranced or challenged by my surroundings that I "forget" everything else in my life for the moment. But don't I have a repository of the "rest" of myself available to me upon demand? 

That's how I see it, but you said it much more clearly than I would have.  Not that we lose our memories, so much, as that they don't pick at us.  They're there if we want to consider them, but they don't come around and give us guilty fits when we're trying to think of something else...

Betson,

You should have looked up "ad hominem."  From the dictionary:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally argument against the person), involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It is a logical fallacy. Some examples of it include include the personal attack, when a personal attack is used to discredit a specific claim or assertion, and the you-too argument.

It includes ad hominem abusive (argumentum ad personam), ad hominem circumstantial (ad hominem circumstantiae), ad hominem tu quoque...  It is often a logical fallacy.

It is somewhat disappointing that the juvenile play on Swedenborg's name has remained as the title to this thread.  I wonder if it were an ugly play on the name of an astral adept of more recent times, more near and dear to those on the board, if it would stand for so long.  Somehow, I don't think so.

I see two major issues with Don's dormant memory points (noted by Robert Bruce who battles negative spirits and has other interesting quirks, and Swedenborg - who does not come out and say that memory loss on the other side is inevitable for all of us). 

The first is that of free will.  There is no reason to suppose that our free will is stripped from us in death.  Thus, in concentrating on our inner selves (As Swedenborg calls it), we would have to willingly release our memories or feel they were unimportant. 

The second issue that contests the loss of memory of the deceased is that of love.  I find that all are in agreement that love is the true purpose of our existence.  For Swedenborg, the two most virtuous forms are love of God and love of thy neighbor.  Both are associated with "heaven," though love of God holds a special place in his mind.  In any event.  the voluntary loss of memory and sinking into a state of idiocy violates the love that we know the universe is based on.  We hear countless examples of NDEs and explorations where long deceased loved ones make contact to ease the suffering of their family or another.  To ES, this is done by divine grace (even if the soul had memory loss, they temporarily are allowed access to their old memories). 

Which brings me to the final counter evidence to spiritual memory loss.  That is the numerous reported cases of spiritual contact long after a person died.  I posted a very personal experience of my wife recently, who had a dream of a warning from her brother her died in his 30s more than five years ago, on another board.  I may reprint it here in the dreams forum.  It was perhaps the most recent most compelling example of a verified communication I have heard of recently.  I can cite many many references of spiritual contact which occurred many years after the physical death of a person. 

Many explorers encounter helpers, consciousness workers and angels constantly trying to help people on earth.  This too counters the memory loss theory advanced by Don.

In conclusion then, I would say that while voluntary memory loss is possible after death in those who concentrate on their inner selves and feel that earthly memories hold nothing for them, it is by no means universal and certainly not corroborated by reports of spiritual contact.


Matthew

Actually, if I was gonna stoop to ridiculing names, I'd do it like
this...
"I am (Sweden)BORG. Resistance is futile. Drop your mental
shields and prepare to be assimilated..."
From what I've read of "Heaven and Hell" by the Borgster, I
have seen a strong streak of authoritarianism... "accept what
I say on FAITH, don't try to explore for yourself, it is dangerous
and not for common schlubs like you."
Perhaps as a clergyman (a hierarchical profession if ever there
was one!) Don was drawn to (Sweden)Borg for this very reason
(self-exploration bordering on sorcerous arts, after all - that is,
unless you are some kind of "chosen one" like the Borgster.)
And indeed, Mr. (Sweden)Borg paints a picture of the afterlife
as similar to the Borg Collective... either be "assimilated" and lose
your free will and self-determination, or suffer unto all eternity!
(Heck, the Star Trek Borg couldn't TOUCH that one..!)
Was Mr. Borg right? I don't know, maybe he was.
But I hope he wasn't. In fact, I'd rather that Karl Marx, Joseph
Stalin, and Mao-Tse-Tung were right about the afterlife, than
our mutual friend Mr. (Sweden)Borg. At least I wouldn't be
spending the rest of eternity as somebody else's "property"...

B-commie