OK Gang, I'm open for being a target today -

Special Relativity is not a "modern invention" but a simple fact of geometry. It doesn't necessarily vanish when we die.

Adding additional dimensions is no solution. Draw a line across a sheet of paper - to make it into a loop you need to bend the paper. There are definitely ways to do that, but they tend to have nothing to do withy the world in which we are rooted. Put the paper on the bottom of an empty box and you now have added a vertical dimension but the paper isn't bent.

To shorten the geometric (rational) separation between two states we need to alter our geometry out of that by which this world's definitions make sense - in whch case there is nowhere to go, like New York, because it vanishes with the change of definition. More, because the nature of reality is an evolving continuum with at least one line of continuous logic, we have the nominal (Mihailovic) distance, which is always unchanged in every geometry.

My proposal is thus that we are everywhere coextensive, and can move timelessly along the light cone (or its equivalent in all other systems) but only with respect to the laws of the physics defining those spaces. Thus, to go 3 LY away to some star will take 3 years, even if to me it is timeless. To meet others in time is easy, we just use a less rapid means of manifestation and meet where the manifestation cones (analogues of light comes, these might be more like ripples in water) overlap). 

So, we seem to have a question - is physics of some sort, together with geometry, binding in the spirit world?

Fire away-

PUL
dave

I'm going to take some time off to look up Swedeborg and think on this. However, there are certain things that we cannot get around.

We cannot do that which is its own undoing. That is, logically impossible things remain impossible. Second, anything that has form and definition must be other than chaotic in nature, which includes a thought. I'd add that this includes clouds of gnats or puffs of smoke, although their definitions are inconstant. That which is chaotic simply has no meaningful interpretation - it is an "imponderable" (member of a set of things that we are unable to think about).

Existence is a logical sequence of some sort, and all that goes with it is, because karma is very much a logical factor, equally logical. Logic is what makes up a thought. It happens to be electromagnetic and ionic in our bodies, but in general it is simply an arrangement of prior and post with linking implications. This we are stuck with. Else we must claim that the world is nothing but chaos. (When I try to install Windows on my computer, I'm inclined to agree with that. So I run Linux.) It is the nominal sequence of causes and effects that leads to the sensation of our reality - were it chaotic, it could not do this reliably.

Geometry, at least in the nominal sense, is pervasive - or actually, it is a topological space of multiply intermeshed geometries, but in all of these, nominals are invariants. Special relativity, right on down into the black hole past the Schwarzchild radius and into the imaginary spaces beyond make excellent sense in this, although they have problems in rational math.

Given these basics, the nature of time is simply an measure of the pasage from one locus of nominal existence to the next, it is not a dimension. Dimensions are nominal sequences that have a commonly developed term. To get from Here to There means a certain number of steps. This means a certain number of nominal increments, like stepping stones. Each of these is part of the process interval, hence part of the definition of "time" in that place. This is the essence of what I'm suggesting.

I'm seriousl.y interested in hearing other opinions, even from green blooded aliens - I think that this specific issue is at or nea to the root of understanding some important aspects of the spirit world. And, like all of us here, in spite of being an arrogant ass at times, I'm here to learn and grow. So- as I said - fire away.

PUL
dave

My friends,

The question is not whether logic and the beauty of science is visible in the world (it is).  There are elegent geometries, and many signs that there is an intelligence and logic inherent in our earth life system.  The question, is however more what are the laws and geometries of the spiritual planes, and is our thought and spirit necessarily confined by earthly laws and rules?

Is the speed of thought in spirit limited by the speed of light?  If thought manifests freely into reality in the spiritual planes, are there different spiritual laws and variables when we are there compared to the physical world?  For me, the answer is obvious.   A big yes.  Although there are likely to be linked concepts and extrapolations ("as above, so below"), I believe there is as ample evidence of a different set of physics operating on the plane of pure thought.


M



M

That which occurs lawlessly has no structural inetgrity and can carry no intelligence. So, CA and Doc, I vote for rules and necessary laws, whether here or in spirit or otherwise. The alternative is that something takes place but is not comprehensible. A good example of that is dreaming - usually operates by some kind of internal logic, but rarely gives us anything useful. Instead, most of what we get is a hodge podge of images and events. That is probably why it is so interesting when we find a way to get information of of a dream.

The next issue is what kind of rules and laws. This goes directly into the kind of stuff that I've been looking at for years, and I'm certainly not an expert. What we can say with some certainty is that we nmust be touched by something in some manner for it to communicate to us. So we are very ancient beings, judging by our ability to receive information from very distant galaxies billions of years older than we appear to be here. This requirement of prior or present contact seems necessay for information transfer, but not sufficient. We also need some kind of interpretation methods. These seem to be what we learn by living. Thus, a column of smoke and the sound of sirens oftens ignifies fire. A spirit unaware of its nature as an element of the nature of God is unlikely to interpret reality, spiritual of material, in the same manner as on who has years of meditation and spiritual experiences. Something about experience seems to be involved.

The structure of an event is that a process operates to alter a locus of attributes so that new attribution occurs and can be sensed. We call this "an object is changing".  A spirit must somehow interact with information for the information to get "inside" (whatever that might mean to spirits). Then there is the method of transmission, the medium that carries the information and so on. If you think through the process, either you have a totally miraculous system, in which you can do anything with anything, and without regard for cause and effect linkages - or we have a process that has rules that can be understood. That which can be understood can be manipulated. That which we can manipulate, will work for us. That which works for us can be put to use, at least in principle, right here and now. So I'm still looking for the rules, so that I can expand my capabilities, not limit them.

Incidently - black holes and suchlike don't alter the nature of geometry. All the exotic physics we have is still part of the same basic collection of cause and effect, even on a statistical level. It is because we have exotic physics that we can have the world as we know it. When Schwartzchild came up with his early calculations for a static black hole, he was simply doing geometry. Thre is no reason to doubt that some kind of geometry can be found at any other level. And this is where I get6 interested and most people get bored - I'm fascinated by the kind of geometry that must be involved. Especially, since we can create more or less at will, and our creations also seem to be limited, or shaped if you prefer, by the conditions pervasive in the spiritual world.
Oh well - different sttrokes for different folks -
PUL
d

I believe that there are physical/spiritual "laws" that help to define both the physical and the spiritual planes of existence. From my understanding, which is always up to change, the pure form of consciousness/awareness from which everything has always been a part of is in a constant state of self exploration/discovery; the emobiment of creativity itself. This includes the perceived self-evolutionary development of self-perception/identity apart but still linked to the whole of the consciousness/awareness from which it is inextricably linked. The laws that exist as we know them seem to be a method of providing those separated curiosity probes of self-discovery/exploration the tools neccessary to carry out this delicate method of perceived self-evolutionary development towards the discovered betterment of all. It seems the overriding law/binding agent for this expanse of creative exploration is pure unconditional love. It is pure unconditional love which emanates structure, integrity, and intelligence. Laws such as the speed of light in my opinion are highly flexible and dependent upon the needs for self-evolutionary development.

My current notions of how existence operates are bound by the experiences that I have had thus far in this physical vessel of mine, and any subconscious memories that may surface regarding other forms of existence whether realized or not. Beings experiences are potentially infinite in any and all forms of reality... It is my belief that how existence operates can also be potentially infinite in any and all forms of reality.

Just ponderings.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions