Moen claims that when he does his retrievals, it is different from Monroe's experiences because Monroe acually leaves his body. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Moen says he does not havee OBEs. My question is what is projected to the areas that he explores... is it just in his mind? If so, how are the souls that are stuck aware of his presence? Or anyones, for that matter. As far as I know, there are OBE's, or astral projection, and there is remote viewing, which I believe is different from OBE's. But the question is, what are Bruce and all you doing your retrievals doing if it's not an OBE or remote viewing?  How is the proccess of what you do different from the process of achieving astral projection? Your conscienceness is obviously being projected out of your body to these places... so how is that different from an OBE??

I agree with Vickie, just adding my viewpoint to enhance hers   Monroe started out with obes to my understanding and advanced to a phasing, he was able to switch or phase his conscioiusness without the perception of taking his body there. he was just there. remote viewing can be like phasing to me as you're using non/physical senses, mostly the nonphysical vision. I once asked to do a retrieval in waking state it was like I didn't go anywhere. a mans face was brought to me and I followed thru with the retrieval, I think this was phasing. Phasing, since Monroe developed into that I believe is what comes after the practice of obe, seems much more advanced.

mixed in with this is sleep retrievals where its like a dream you set with an intention to have, the way you know you are obe, you feel as if u are really there, lucidly, and can call for assistance for guides to finish the retrieval. u remember everything later. phasing is better as theres the memory really fresh as you never fell asleep in the first place. theres been some people report their retrieval dreams here and they didn't know they were doing retrievals until they found this site.
imagination is a tool our society does not understand but it will produce obes or even dreams where you go obe from the dream station. imagination is so important as if u can't imagine you can't set an intention to either retrieve or explore. got to imagine first what it is you want to explore or just rely on guides to take you there works too. one thing about this study, you don't give up. you have to persistently keep at it. the guidebook does work. especially the relax and energy breaths work. pretty sure the tapes would work for you.
hugs, alysia

Hi,

we cannot be certain if OoBEs are something which is principally different, or principally the same as the experiences people have in meditations (traditional or with the methods of TMI or Bruce).

What I see is there is a (maybe just in degree, accidental) difference in experiences, and some are more likely called "OoBEs" and others "mind-journeys", or "phasing".

When one has an experience where the surrounding is perceived, at least visually, very similar to the physical, or, in case the surrounding is different from the physical, the surrounding shows a degree of unexpected details, as well as independence, so that one is feeling really "in" this surrounding, with no or nearly no perception of the physical body, then it's usually called OoBE.

My mind journeys, as also what Bruce tells of the participants of his teachings, and like most TMI program participants I heard of, are different. It seems, most people are experiencing this like a day dream, that's why some people need to get verification, or just have to do it several times, before they believe that it's more than a private dream. Usually, the awareness of the physical body remains.

Talking about Monroe, it is as Alysia said, after his early OoBEs with the separation from his physical body, being in a second, etheric-flexible body, he found a quicker method to get where he wanted to go to, and his theory how this might work generally, is "phasing", this is tuning our minds into different states of awareness. However, he was a natural OoBEler, and from reading his books, it seems when he phases into different states than physical awareness, he had nearly no perception of his physical body, so it's appropriate to say when he did his "trips", he was always in an OoB- state.

We just have no "physics" of the non-physical, so I think it's best to let experiences speak rather than to talk too much about what is "projected" to where, because these are theories we just can't judge from experience (I don't point here at Dave, because his is a universal theory in mathematical terms, like in language such a theory would be "Everything is consciousness which gave itself some rules"- btw monism is the only satisfying type of universal theories, isn't it?). Nonetheless, theories like those of several different vibrating bodies and levels can have a practical meaning to get things in order, therefore have a better grip of them, but not as a fact before it is plausible that it's the best theory, embedded in a general system, which isn't likely to be changed in the future.

Spooky