Hi Randy  Before you go to sleep at night,always ask God to surround you with his protection of love and light,also to leave his blessing on you and the room you are sleeping in,i do this every night ,because i also had an experience similar to yours,thats why i make sure that i say these words to god every night.Hope this helps.

Love and God bless you Randy  Juditha

Hi All!
    I haven't been on the board for a while,. and missed it...it's one of the things I like to do now, to get my mind and soul kind of thinking along the same avenues...it's so easy to become distracted by the smaller pictures, so to speak, and hearing about the bigger one helps me to feel much more grounded and meaningful....if that makes sense..

Anyway Randy, your post struck me rather hard this afternoon..in a good way, b/c I really remember going through this kind of thing...and  for long term periods of time,too. I mean it struck me in a good way,only b/c I finally understand more fully what was happening,at least in my own humble opinion and experience...I was brought up in a way...where I interpreted things in a way that made me very prone to more mischevious entities, or ones that were earthbound, prehaps, forgive the semantics...like when I read about the level states of out of body, I realised there were levels if you will, but still am not familiar with the numbers or what have you to them...but my feeling was that whatever the entities around me were...they had to at least be very fearful and confused and in great distress themselves, in order to project that kind of fear into anyone...and you're right,it IS a choice....I hate sounding trite, but "God helps those who help themselves" comes into mind...not in a punitive way...but in a free will kind of way, we decide when we've had enough, in a way.....though I hate to make it sound so "simple" b/c when I was inside of it, I felt like I was doomed forever, and the experiences were very sickening feeling in nature, and real, heavy weights on my chest in near sleep, the feeling that someone was trying to take residence in my sleeping body...the voices, often mocking and the overwhelming feelings once our own fear is triggered...it's tough to keep your "head"about you...and  I remember calling on the name of Jesus, as some well-meaning people told me to do...and had a bit of success...and then it had no effect, and I was very hurt to hear, "Well, your faith is weak then...ect...etc" or that I must be wanting them to stay around...etc...and it shook up the foundations of my faith in anything...much less myself....and the entities harassing me at the time,loved that....that it took me very long to see the power, or solution was inside of me all along, in the place I had the least amount of faith in,at the time...lol....

I realise this can be a loaded topic...but I really know that feeling of being so....heavy and "down" for lengthy periods of time...and it's very real. I finally found, for myself, anyway, b/c it's the only one I can speak for...that the earthbound spirits, or beings deprived(self deprived almost surely) were really relying on my fear and despondency for "fuel"...or for energy..and that I was in fact, reinforcing their faulty beliefs of themselves and of myself, by being stuck in that cycle, of fear,dread, and fear again.......yuck...

I went through stages of terror,almost always around in some form..and then, believing my faith was too small, and trying to strengthen that...but always looking outside myself for the real help...and then I went into fighting mode...I fought, with some small successes, but it always came back, in new ways, having found all my weaknesses,and personal fear triggers...and found that fear and anger were similar, and that I was again, unintentionally "feeding" these negative feeling entities with my anger as well...as long as they had something to scare, or infuriate, they were reinforced...and I started feeling damned.....

My own story is obviously too long to fit in a neat nutshell here...lol...but one day I had the "realization" that started working for me,personally, and I was able to get back to my original states of being....and I was able to then really grow, be free to grow and learn, and experience things other than the illusions of fear and a kind of "hell" which to me was absence from the light,or truth, or love.Anyway....I suddenly had the thought,that whatever I wanted to call it,demons, devils, my own fear, lost souls...whatever I wanted to call them,if they were bent on making me believe they were evil, so be it...all I knew was that all life, everything, in my belief system....has been created from the same divine spark, or source....and in that case...they must be terribly lost, and terribly miserable themselves to be involved with these things...when they have an entire universe to explore,and their own growth they could be concerned with...etc..

Believe it or not...I started to feel sad for  such beings..and I began to confront them, instead of hell vs. heaven,God vs.the Devil...and started to think, wow, what an unfortunate way to be....as I had always kind of looked forward to the time when I won't be bound by an earth body....and the more I bought into what they were trying to tell me, the more I realised it had to be their own beliefs holding them in such a place, b/c who would really pick suffering and being stuck in a narrow dark reality? And this is how I first started unofficially doing the things people call here as "retrievals"...without knowing better,I only made my mind up that no matter how terrifying or convincing they seemd to be...I would instead of "fighting" them "with God's love"....(it didn't fit that love and fighting would be compatible anyway)...lol...I would try to love them the best way I understood,and would focus and tell whatever I felt or saw around me that I knew the truth of who and what they really were...that they were no different than me, or anything(one) in existence, since we all came from the same divine spark,the center of us all, is a part of that,and therefore even if I didn't understand everything, or why they were what they were now...that in that case, I need to project love and healing towards beings like this,more so than almost any others, b/c they were so apart from their roots,and had obviously bought into a faulty belief system as well. I knew what that could do just in my earthly life now....and that's when everything changed for me.It wasn't always easy to do that, to try and embrace even, and I keep imagining the light in the very center of me as bright, clean, and healthy, and pouring out love, first starting this of by thinking off all the things I easily can love, like my kids,my dog, family...etc...and then worked on the art of loving...and incredibly,what was going on for years,stopped, or changed gears at least,and I was freed myself,from having to experience this oppressive energy when what I too wanted, was love.....

I realize this may either sound confusing or simplistic...but it was a major turning point for me...and I was so amazed when I found this site, and started reading about these things,and finding words for experiences...and also finding a very supportive group of people here to talk to..I'm adding alot of richness to my life by sharing things like this with others..and it was good to read your experience.....

I cannot say for sure, but I know with me, I am and always have been very senstive to the "unseen"...and I sometimes wondered, if these experiences I had, and got through... like with my spiritual searching.....were in a small part b/c of that....b/c the energies kind of displaced and looking for strength will be like moths to a flame; I bet to sensitives...b/c they can affect those who are so much better...and I cannot tell you how grateful I am to be out of those kinds of grips now....anyway...that's my long-winded two cents,and I hope to hear more from you in the future.....

Hi,
I'm not as psychic sensitive as some others here, but have sometimes feelings of a threat from entities/ghosts, especially at night when I go to sleep. I then do some little protection rituals, imaginations of a shield around me, of white light, and of a portal of light where stuck earthbound souls might/should go to, or I simply ask for help. It works. If someone is a Christian, or just raised up in a Christian surrounding, then, when saying "Jesus Christ" all associations of this name, like wiseness, humanity, saviour, are evoked, as this is all contained in this name; it's like a magic spell for those to whom Jesus has a meaning.

Karmickiss, your post shows the great learning potential soul retrievals have for the retriever (and of course a good service for those stuckies).


Spooky

Greetings,

I wonder if that "state of terror" Randy speaks of has an extremely chaotic energy field where higher Helpers cannot cross, where we can't even help ourselves. The terror mires the soul in a bramble bush that pricks with a dozen barbs while one is attempting to deal with only one. 
Such a chaotic field could also become a beacon/magnet for chaotic beings, disturbed/'evil' ones. They feed on their own kind of energy.
It's that extreme level of disturbance and chaos that is terrifying to all beings of love, including the victim, because Love is the opposite of terror/chaos/fear.
So maybe if one's voice is quaking with fear and terror, demanding the removal of the 'evil' spirits is not convincing for the long term, so the terror-feeders just come back later.  The terror of the host has to subside before (s)he can get through to higher help, Self or other.

Randy, I just described what i experienced that seems related to what you experienced. I'm sory you had such a long time of trouble but I think it's over now. You could also use every opportunity you have to learn about Pure Unconditional Love/ PUL; that's helped me immensely. There's alot of PUL in Bruce's books and on these boards! You could also try avoiding using terror for entertainment, like from movies, 'news,' etc. You're already feeling better, right, so you're on the right path now!

Wonderful Recoverer, you are so fortunate to have not experienced that terror for so long, that at first you say that it could not happen, but then you seem to change your point of view.   It's certainly a plight in tune with all stuck souls needing retrievals. On either side of the veil!  I think examples of this are in Bruce's writings, but I can't think of the exact reference right now.

Love, Bets

A passing note on regression technique - Karmakiss sounds like a budding healer. Lots of insight. Spooky sees it too, evidently. Bets and Recoverer are certainly correct, but there's a subtlety here that seems to have been overlooked. Or maybe I just didn't pick up on it.

The few souls that have explained to me how they got into the demon business generally said that they had been told that if they could continue to bother people, then so long as they did that they would not die. So the attachment and nuisance value was an attempt to sve themselves, just as Bets said.

How that works is that our minds seem to be "open" on some level - and those parts that are identical to the minds of the frightened spooks are, in principle, indiscriminable from them. Thus, the spooks attach to those parts, typically strong negative emotions, and then try to stir up some more fear in order to get a better grip. They can't actually "do" anything - but they can be a bother, since they get frightened when we try to evict them, and they oftebn increase their efforts to cling by becoming even more frightening etc. In this sense, an exorcism often can send one of these guys into a fearful onlooker, which is bad for both of them.

The solution is just what Karmakiss suggested - realize that these are freaked out and existentially fearful beings that are terrified about being killed off without even a lingering trace of ectoplasm. As they lose the ability to be frightening, they begin to feel as if their existence is at risk. So instead of challenging them in a "You can't scare me," style, it's easier to send them a certain amount of compassion, "I sense that you are upset, and I wish you to understand that no matter who or what you believe yourself to be, you are still lovable and valuable."  Then you can ask about their history, what was their last recollections of life like, where did they live, how did they die and so on. This takes them out of the "here and now attack mode" and back into an sot of everyday relaxation where they can converse. Next, with really stubborn spooks I often ask, "Do you have any old friends - trustworthy friends - whoi are dead and in the light?" Of course they do. "Great. Ask your frirnd if it's a safe place for you to go too." This is generally a new idea. "OK, if they say that it's OK to go there, go and have a look. I'll let you return if you really don't like it." That's a better deal than they've been offered in the past, so most go off to check it out and of course they gain understanding and remain. One rare occasions being in the light can return, but they are never maleavolent - they just want to drop in and say "Hi" or help with a project or offer to be a guide etc. However, they do not "stick" like the original entities, because they now have abandoned the need to fear, since the light offers rebirth in every aspect.

The difference between this specific type of entity work and the release of entities stuck in between the astral and earthbound levels that Bruce writes about is only that the kind of attachment differs slightly. Earthbound entities often attach to pride (like the actor who was ashamed refused to get up after having aheart attack on stage), will to complete a task (like the tank driver who just kept on driving). or confusion (the drowning man who clung to his bit of board for years) and so on. These are mostly confused beings, but they have not begun attachment to others. Instead, they remain attached to the last significant item of their world, and they bend their world into a closed system, a BST, which prevents seeing beyond it, but which ensures that they will continue their self-preservative efforts.

I worked with a woman named Susan who was very compassionate and would literally pick up dead spirits along the road as she went through life. She wound up becoming a "transfer medium", with one foot  on earth and the other in spirit, picking them up here, and dropping them off there.

That's the type of image that removes the need for the entities to feel threatened. "There's a better place to go, it has been completely explored, and is safe. Besides, you can have your arms back, or regrow your head, or whatever is needed. It is a place of total forgiveness and love. And you can be with your friends again, and without ever needing to encounter your old enemies."

PUL
dave

Yes, definitely,
you posters here have described a state of mind+soul I hope to be in more constantly. You all who were here a year ago pulled me out of the 'briarpatch' then, and you, Karmickiss, are added inspiration. 

What i was meaning was to acknowledge to DoGhOuSe that in that early stage, one can find it very difficult to get free, but not to give up.

Cheers 
bets

Hi everyone - back to haunt you  kidding!

I'm wondering; these spirits that latch onto and into the physical plane; whether they are complete spirits - that is do they have their I (Ego) with them or are they a fragment of their Ego's needing retriving by their I together with helpers?

There seems to be two common classifications of Spirits.  (Maybe more sure)
The first is the above maybe called 'wandering and lost spirits' and the second is spirit/soul's who have 'gone home' and came back to check things out in the Earth plane?

The first are confused fragments; with or without an Ego? who need human help and the second are complete with Ego who are not so lost and confused who could help us?

PUL
Caryn

Hi The one reason that made me really think of possesion of the devil,was when i watched The Exorcist,as it was supposed to be a true story,and also The Amitiville horror was supposed to be a true story.

Its films like this supposedly based on real life,that bring some of the thoughts of possesion and the devil into peoples way of thinking.

But God always helps us to win against negative entitys with his love and light.

I had a negative experience myself but i did not get possessed,as Gods love protected me,my prayer i said to God asking for his protection of love and light helped me be strong and get through that experience.

Love and God bless you all  Juditha

The Amityville horror was found to be a hoax. Investigators found numerous inconsistencies with the story. For example, the Lutz's (the family that was supposedly haunted) claimed that hoofprints were made in snow. Investigators found that there wasn't any snow in the area when these footprints were supposedly discovered.

The Lutz's claimed that there was extensive damage to doors and windows. Upon inspection it was found that there was no disturbance to paint and varnish.

Here's a paragraph which explains what really happened.

"The truth behind The Amityville Horror was finally revealed when Butch DeFeo's lawyer, William Weber, admitted that he, along with the Lutzes, "created this horror story over many bottles of wine." The house was never really haunted; the horrific experiences they had claimed were simply made up. While the Lutzes profited handsomely from their story, Weber had planned to use the haunting to gain a new trial for his client, Ronald Defeo. The Lutzes also later admitted that virtually everything they had said about the haunting-and everything in The Amityville Horror-was pure fiction."

Regarding the murders that did happen:
"For his part, Osuna has his own story to tell. He buys Ronald “Butch” DeFeo’s (a person with psychological and drug problems) current story about the murders, assuring his readers that it “is true and has never been made public” (18, 22). DeFeo now alleges that his sister Dawn urged him to kill the entire family and that she and two of Butch’s friends had participated in the crimes.

In fact, Butch maintains that Dawn began the carnage by shooting their domineering father with the .35-caliber Marlin rifle. Butch then shot his mother, whom he felt would have turned him in for the crime, but claims he never intended to kill his siblings. He left the house to look for one of his friends who had left the scene and, when he returned to find that Dawn had murdered her sister and other two brothers, he was enraged. He fought with her for the gun and sent her flying into a bedpost where she was knocked out. He then shot her."

Regarding the true story behind the Exorcist, I've read several articles plus a book about the matter. Even though the book was written by an author who believed in demons etc., there is much within the book which shows that the true story is nothing like the movie and very possibly had nothing to do with demonic possession. I don't remember details such as names etc., but I'll do by best.

Robbie, the person the book and movie is supposedly based upon, was a thirteen year old boy who used to be very close to his aunt. She taught him how use ouija boards etc. After she passed away he made numerous attempts to contact her with an ouija board. Eventually he started to experience poltergeist like activity. A spiritualist came to the house and said it was his aunt. I don't know if she made an accurate reading.

Noises etc were experienced for about ten days before Robbie started to get effected (one would think that a powerful demon wouldn't need so much time). He didn't get possessed around the clock like Linda Blair's character. In fact, in the daytime he did things such as go to school (not throughout the whole affair) and he had discussions about Catholicism with the priest he worked with. One would think that a person who is possessed by powerful demon wouldn't be able to do such things. There were a couple of occasions where Robbie said its over, only to report differently during the night. Is possession a 24/7 thing or a now or then thing?

The main priest that was involved with the case said that he believed demonic possession was involved because he was required by his faith to make this conclusion (so much for intuitive insight).

Regarding the markings that appeared on his body, there are mixed reports. Some say that evil markings mysteriously appeared on his body. One report said that a man caught Robbie make a marking. Some reports say that people saw nothing but rashes. At one point "no school today" appeared on Robbie's body. Think about this one.

Even if such markings appeared on Robbie's body without him making them externally, it is possible that his subconscious mind caused them to appear. Hypnotists have found that they can cause people to do such things. I wouldn't be surprised if Robbie was just simply visited by a spirit that used to be human, he (Robbie) heard about demons and such from the priest who worked with him, took on a belief system accordingly, and then his subconscious mind caused the markings to appear. Even if a spirit visisted him and caused the markings to occur, there is no evidence whatsoever that something such as a demon was involved. Just as physical satanists can write and say heretical things, so could a confused spirit who used to be human.

One other point. Whatever it is that caused Robbie to go throught the difficulty he went through, none of the people that were around him and tried to help him were troubled by an evil spirit. One would think that if something such as armies of darkness exist, the demon that supposedly troubled Robbie would've called for reinforcements.  

I'm not saying that hauntings never occur. But I believe it is a mistake to believe what Hollywood has to say about them, and to assume something such as demons are involved.

P.S. Is this  a demon or a smiley face with an attitude problem?


 

Yep, Alysia..I've noticed that too!   Awesome connectedness..

Greetings,

Re: Dave and recover's comments about not needing to have these negative spirits around and helping them to the Light--

I did some reflecting and found myself to have a rather arrogant attitude about these low level spirits, not helpful as suggested. So I wanted to change and began a dialog with any that might be around, asking them why they didn't look for the Light anymore. About six of them had various responses--they'd given up, they thought their low life was more fun, yada yada, one was beligerent.   "Hearing' their responses I found I really did care about them and got 5 to eventually rise into the Light;  only one I had to 'see not there.'

Perhaps I'll do this again every so often. There was no wave of PUL and Light in response, like after retrievals, but I did feel lighter, as that woman Dave mentioned said.
Thanks, Dave!  Thanks, recoverer!

Betsi

Awesome Betsi!

Thanks recovere for that information concerning both of those stories ,good to know they are not true love deanna

recoverer wrote on Nov 7^th, 2006 at 1:47pm:



...and for another opinion, I would suggest reading Hostage to the Devil and also learning more about the immense empirical investigations involved in true exorcism cases, not the "hollywood" stuff or televangelist stuff.   

This is not a subject to be taken lightly, and while I respect other people's right to believe, as that is a part of freewill, I think that it is dangerous to 100% discount even the remote possibility that there could be truth to some of these things.

and to clear up one inaccuracy regarding Roman Catholic rite exorcists..they are not required by faith to conclude that something is a demonic possession.  that is absoutely not true...this is something I have direct knowledge and access on,  and I must correct this.

Rather, the contrary is true.  They are trained to be exceedingly skeptical and a true exorcism involves massive amounts of scientific and empirical investigation before it ever moves to a stage to be considered a true case of possession.  I can speak with certainty about this as I happen to directly know individuals with direct knowledge of exorcism procedures and cases, and I have done alot of research into this area.  Many cases involving tremendous phenomena are actually ruled out as being possible possession cases...psychological studies are involved, and things that can be duplicated by hypnotists and such are not "clinchers" when determining a possible possession case.  Only when all possible explanations are exhausted (and this includes phenomena like things being raised up on skin, etc.) is it even considered to be possibly a legitimate case. 

When the hypnotists can reproduce what actually occurs in true cases of possession, then I will lend more credence to other possibilities.  So far, no hypnotist on earth can reproduce some of the phenomena that occurs in some cases I have been privy to information on.

Hi All, and wishing everyone all the best on this fine evening. I really enjoy the great minds we have here,and as I seem to be in most things...I kind of have an eclectic view(s) and can find value and helpful thoughts in taking a bit from everyone,and this is an exciting process of change,and modification of my own journey..and I need and am grateful for every poster's time and energy used into putting their wisdom,experience,and self out there.

Hi there,newwayknight...I am quite new to the site still, and getting to know the place and people bit by bit...anyway...Thanks for the book reference..as it's something up my alley, that I'd love to take a look at...I'm a book fanatic and love finding good reading about these topics..and I too, am wary of discounting or completely stating any of my thoughts as anything like carved in stone..and I've tried hard to use that philosophy with every aspect of my life, if I can, b/c I've seen how dangerous it can be, and easy to get into an 'unteachable' place...and I can only speak from my own personal experience, of course...but life has humbled me it seems over and over with many things I said,"never", or "always", or somehow had a black and white view about...were things that b/c of that thinking it took me a whole lot longer to grasp some basic things that would have sped up my growth eons ago had I only allowed myself to be less rigid.

In my limited experience, as I am only one person,and can only go by what I've experienced, and/or read about, or studied, and blending those things together in a way that was harmonious as it could be....I can say I was relieved to find out the things I did about beings that I labeled as demons...to find the common denominator there was often not what it seemed at first glance..and on the flip side, there have been a few cases at least in my personal experience, that seem to defy the "norm"...and whatever it's called..and ultimately"is"..I know that there are areas in negativity that I am left without any solid conclusion about...and as in all things, too, there's always individual cases....all of us are individual too,in our journeys and development...and I know there are certain things that I have gained a healthy respect for...

I know I've mentioned this before...but I was quite interested actually,but the whole process that I personally went through, with being brought to be exorcised by the church I was brought up in...and it was (although most of the actual details were kept from me,but from what I was able to overhear, and by the things I was told and the way it was explained to me or even the lack of explanation is certain areas) the impression that I got too...it didn't happen as soon as my mom made the first call of concern...but suddenly I was interviewed and seen by elders of the church from near and far...and painfully sorry for the revelations I did make to the pastors(though I know they were well meaning in their intentions, I really feel they were) and I had asked them quite naievely(sp?) questions about the things I thought would be their expertise... and there was some kind of "case" as I recall...but I think it did take quite a bit of effort before I was actually brought to be "exorcised'. In later experiences in my lifetime as an adult, and having come full circle with so many things, but still meeting plenty of colorful people, and had some involvement with a couple "exorcisms"while I was renting at a place that was supposed to be a "healing center", and that was another story...in those cases, it's why I moved out...I didn't want any part of what was really going on, when I found out....so another extreme, and then more genuine  experiences, only a couple, that fell into my lap without me looking for it in any way shape or form...that showed me yet another side to it....and as strange as it is for someone like myself,who loves to analyze things..and intellectualize...strangely enough I'm kind of not too worried anymore,and think that as time goes on, I will have a fuller picture,when and if the time comes that I need to...but I am always open to letting my mind roam about the subject..and have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts about this..

(A hard subject to a non native English speaker, excuse me in advance please)

Allan Kardec conclusions on the subject:

The human spirit whether incarnated or not can communicate to others always it can “tune” with the “target”.  

Usually what happens is kind of a thought exchange. When incarnated the phenomenon is felt as an intuition otherwise among discarnated spirits it is clearer and direct.

Both the “good” and the “not good yet” spirits can influence us once tuned with us.

What is called possession? To understand it we need first to understand the mechanism of the spiritual influence.

Spirits are all over around (we’re spirits) and not all of then can influence us, why?

It’s because the process is based in transmitting an idea to a person in a way that the person tends to agree and act according to the transmitted idea hence it’s necessary to find a basis at the “target” mind.

So if I’m a very aggressive spirit and my goal is to convince someone to spank a person I hate at the physical I’ll need to find a person who believes that violence is a possible way to solve a problem, if not, my target could simple deny the suggestion because it doesn’t fits His/Her thoughts.

So spiritual influence is when we receive and ACCEPT an idea that a spirit sent us because it resonates at our mind even in a very deep level almost unconscious. This is why Allan Kardec states that we own our minds. The main problem is that we not always really know ourselves.

Possession is when this thought exchange with acceptance between sender and receiver become permanent and dangerous that after some time they become so bonded that is quite impossible to know which act comes from the incarnated person and which one does not.

Some instruments used by low level spirits in order to influence us are our guilt feelings, and any bad felling they could manage to find at us.

Hence the solution can come from psychological help, and medications along with a gathering of spiritual knowledge.

Psychology: Work with the guilt and fear
Medicine: Can change the brain chemical balance in order to difficult the tuning process.
Spiritual Knowledge: Will allow the change at our behavior in order to eliminate de traits of our personality which had opened the doors to the possession process.

Usually after a successful “anti possessive healing” booth the spirit (possessor) and the person (possessed) get to a clearer understanding of live and become more lucid minds.  

Caryn:

It is interesting that you bring up the subject of sex. I'm not a prude, but I do believe that lust and love are two different things. The only thing the energy of lust cares about is self fulfillment. It does seem to be on the same level as our lower nature urges.

Because my kundalini is awake I have to take special care. My guidance has been sending me messages which suggest that I need to get over my sexual attachments, so that my development moves towards Christ consciousness.  Not to say that I'm a sex maniac; however, I realize that my energy and openess to Christ consciousness is partly blocked by the sexual attachments I have.