Conversation Board - Reincarnation who needs it

B-dawg

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #15 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 4:24am

Hi If we have to reincarnate,i bet there is not one person on here ,in all honesty ,would want to come back to this, if they do,all i can say is that they must have had some kind of fantastic life,while they were here.I mean to say ,what is the attraction of coming back,for a start,you have to come back as a different person,different family,and that means never being with the family you loved before.Not great knowing that.
*****************
-Well, I haven't had a fantastic life, myself. But I have SEEN what is possible
in C1 with the "right set of gear" (mental/physical characteristics and life circumstances.) I wouldn't want to accept that some of these things are forever beyond my ken, that I'll just have to accept not knowing what these things are like from a FIRST-PERSON perspective...
What about people who never had a family, Juditha? Orphans, foundlings, and so on? Do they never get to have that experience?
What of people who weren't loved by their families? Who may even have been ABUSED in their families? Might they not want a second chance at having a loving family? Without reincarnation, how are they gonna do that? (Or are they going to have to be with their abusive/neglectful families forever???)
What about people who had potentially loving families, but died as babies? Don't you think eternity as a baby (which is how those family members WOULD see the person) might get kind of stale?
All that being said, I'd like to think that those who don't wish to reincarnate,
don't have to. Just like those who don't want to exist as disembodied "spirits" shouldn't have to. And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
Imagine if Ultimate Reality is a DEMOCRACY, and not a monarchy like most religions imagine it to be. Kings (and queens) s*ck, that's why modern civilized nations have done away with them - think about it!
(Or would you prefer otherwise? Why don't you move to the Middle East
then, lots of kings/sheiks/chiefs there to tell you how to live!)
No, better a DEMOCRACY. (And wouldn't that be cool, really???)

B-man

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Shirley

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #16 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 5:41am

Hi Jules..and welcome to the board!

In this Earth Life System, there is duality. Hence the good and evil, hot and cold, black and white, yin and yang, physical and spiritual.

In the afterlife...the duality is gone, so there is no good/evil paradigm. Only those of our own making. (See Bruce's book about Max's Hell)

Yes, over there you can know the good without the bad. It seems strange, doesn't it? But I tend to think that those who say you can't have or enjoy pleasure without pain, are only trying to find a reason behind the pain.

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Shirley Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 537 San Antonio Gender:	Re: Reincarnation who needs it Reply #17 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 5:42am Hey, B-man...excellent points!
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juditha

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #18 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 6:36am

Hi Chumley i do agree that people should have the choice to reincarnate,and i would also like to think this happens,i suppose my faith in human nature is very limited sometimes and i feel myself that this life i have now and will continue to live is my last earth life i want to experience,so my choice would definetly be no more reincarnation,but we all have our own veiws on this,as this is my own personal veiw.
Love and god bless you Juditha

Hi shirley The reason behind the pain of emotions is life.
Love and God bless you Juditha

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B-dawg

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #19 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 7:19am

[quote author=juditha link=1160339898/15#18 date=1160476591]Hi Chumley i do agree that people should have the choice to reincarnate,and i would also like to think this happens,i suppose my faith in human nature is very limited sometimes and i feel myself that this life i have now and will continue to live is my last earth life i want to experience,so my choice would definetly be no more reincarnation,but we all have our own veiws on this,as this is my own personal veiw.
Love and god bless you Juditha

Hi shirley The reason behind the pain of emotions is life.
Love and God bless you Juditha
*****************
You sound depressed, Juditha. Is your life here THAT bad..?
Me, I'm not a particularly happy person myself, and I never
have been. But I still see my life as having... POSSIBILITIES.
You do too - right???

B-man

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juditha

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #20 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 1:13pm

Hi Chumley i do now see my life as having some possibilities,as i went to this centre today and talked about my confidence and my fears i feel sometimes,and i was so suprised,as this made me feel so much better,which i have not felt for quite a while now,so i can see a better way coming towards me.Im starting to get there.
Love and God bless you Chumley Juditha

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deanna Senior Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 464 Gender:	Re: Reincarnation who needs it Reply #21 - Oct 10^th, 2006 at 6:46pm SHIRLEY I PROBABLY HAVE SAID IT BEFORE I,M NOT COMING BACK BUT THIS TIME I SURE DO MEAN IT . HI JULES WHEN YOU GO TO THE SPIRIT WORLD YOU NEVER FEEL PAIN AGAIN IT IS AN EARTHLY THING LOVE DEANNA
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Never say die

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #22 - Oct 13^th, 2006 at 10:34am

B-dawg wrote on Oct 10^th, 2006 at 4:24am:

And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
B-man

I can't imagine why anyone would want to die a permanent death, cease to exist. It would be like they never existed.

Excuse me for changing the direction of the topic a bit but -

I don't think those who strongly disbelieve in the afterlife do so for not wanting it. Its just that they are close minded to the possibilities of another existence / alternate dimensions, because they are so dependent on their five physical senses and cannot believe anything is real unless they knowingly experience it themselves. They believe everything can be explained by mainstream physics. I have been learning that mainstream physics and meta physics are pretty much the same thing, its just that we here in western civilisation have fundamentally gone the wrong way about the afterlife in terms of science. This kind of science looks too much at the sum of the parts, rather than the whole. It doesn't understand the interconnectedness of all things. That is why part of my faith in the afterlife is founded in the new scientific paradigm that is emerging. See the link below.

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/

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Cricket

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #23 - Oct 13^th, 2006 at 7:12pm

Well, I'm not real excited about going through adolescense again, but other than that, if John comes back too...I'll be back in a heartbeat. I've had more fun than anyone has a right to, and I enjoy challenges. I'd just as soon not be widowed at 50 again, thank you, but if I had to to spend another twenty years with John in another life with all the physical experiences and challenges, I'm all for it.

At the moment I've got sawdust and wood chips down the back of my shirt (it's thirty something degrees here and I didn't have a furnace functioning until about fifteen minutes ago)...I was going to say I'd skip that, but no...I accomplished something, it was kind of fun, and I'm warm now...nope, I'd do it again.

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B-dawg

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #24 - Oct 14^th, 2006 at 9:18am

Never say die wrote on Oct 13^th, 2006 at 10:34am:

[quote author=Chumley link=1160339898/15#15 date=1160468690]And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
B-man

I can't imagine why anyone would want to die a permanent death, cease to exist. It would be like they never existed.

Excuse me for changing the direction of the topic a bit but -

I don't think those who strongly disbelieve in the afterlife do so for not wanting it. Its just that they are close minded to the possibilities of another existence / alternate dimensions, because they are so dependent on their five physical senses and cannot believe anything is real unless they knowingly experience it themselves. They believe everything can be explained by mainstream physics. I have been learning that mainstream physics and meta physics are pretty much the same thing, its just that we here in western civilisation have fundamentally gone the wrong way about the afterlife in terms of science. This kind of science looks too much at the sum of the parts, rather than the whole. It doesn't understand the interconnectedness of all things. That is why part of my faith in the afterlife is founded in the new scientific paradigm that is emerging. See the link below.

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/
******************
Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm"
stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot
and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never
turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!)
Now, why do you think this is?
To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist):

"Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER
ban psychics?"

Makes you wonder, doesn't it..?

B-man

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Never say die

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #25 - Oct 14^th, 2006 at 10:24am

B-dawg wrote on Oct 14^th, 2006 at 9:18am:

Never say die wrote on Oct 13^th, 2006 at 10:34am:

[quote author=Chumley link=1160339898/15#15 date=1160468690]And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
B-man

Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm"
stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot
and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never
turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!)
Now, why do you think this is?
To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist):

"Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER
ban psychics?"

Makes you wonder, doesn't it..?

B-man

Logic permits that if there is an afterlife and consciousness that is independent of the brain then there's probably a way of explaining it with science.

I don't claim to be an expert myself by any means, but I am curious as to why you would dismiss the new scientific paradigm without actually addressing any of the principles and theories outlined ie. dark matter, charge clusters etc. Telling me about casinos and loch ness monsters doesn't promote healthy debate. Please do not talk down to me.

Also I always tell people this. Do you know that people used to consider phenomenon that is commonplace today like radio and tv waves, flying machines etc to be crackpot and psuedo science?? Times change.

My motto is the role of science is to investigate the unexplained, NOT to explain the uninvestigated.

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B-dawg

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #26 - Oct 14^th, 2006 at 1:02pm

And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
B-man

Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm"
stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot
and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never
turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!)
Now, why do you think this is?
To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist):

"Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER
ban psychics?"

Makes you wonder, doesn't it..?

B-man

Logic permits that if there is an afterlife and consciousness that is independent of the brain then there's probably a way of explaining it with science.
*****************
-It should have been explained by now, if it was ever going to be.
Fact is, a neurosurgeon can poke electrodes into your brain and
make you laugh, shout, cry, sing "Yankee Doodle", see a blue patch, or even have a "mystical
experience." Which therefore is the simpler explanation, soul/afterlife
or we're-just-our-brains? (Answer this question as if you had old William
of Occam watching over your shoulder, ready to slit your throat with that infamous razor of his if you didn't pick the simpler explanation..!)
_________________

I don't claim to be an expert myself by any means, but I am curious as to why you would dismiss the new scientific paradigm without actually addressing any of the principles and theories outlined ie. dark matter, charge clusters etc. Telling me about casinos and loch ness monsters doesn't promote healthy debate. Please do not talk down to me.
******************
-I'm not talking down to anybody. (And WHAT ABOUT those casinos, a good psychic oughtta be able to burn up a craps table in nothing flat! What's going on here?)
__________________

Also I always tell people this. Do you know that people used to consider phenomenon that is commonplace today like radio and tv waves, flying machines etc to be crackpot and psuedo science?? Times change.
******************
-Times sure DO change. True, 100 years ago nobody would have believed that (new, unprecedented!) things, like flight or space travel, would ever be possible. Ditto for radio, ect.
Your "new paradigm", on the other hand, states that "ancient wisdom" (i.e., superstitious beliefs best suited to primitive, early agricultural societies like Sumer and pre-dynastic Egypt) are going to be vindicated by modern science. While surely our scientific knowledge is incomplete and I'm sure some tweaking is in order (i.e. "charge clusters" may require a re-investigation of basic electromagnetic theory) but I think it is quite a reach to claim that "charge clusters" have anything more to do with "mystical realities" than that bowl of 5-alarm chili I ate last Tuesday (some ghosts WERE detected, but I'm afraid they were of the "trouser" variety!)
As for "dark matter", its existence is far from a proven thing, it is just a hypothesis to explain some research anomalies. Not to say it doesn't exist, but I think we're better off consulting physicists to try to figure it out, than some unkempt-bearded "guru" in India who hasn't had a bath in 40 years...
(I could go on, but I'll just go with the examples you provided... 'nuff said there!)
_________________

My motto is the role of science is to investigate the unexplained, NOT to explain the uninvestigated.
*****************
And that's a VERY good motto, NSD. I agree 100%.
Sadly, "ancient wisdom" and religion are ALL ABOUT
explaining the uninvestigated, you must admit. If we
allow modern science to go down that road, I don't
think we're going to get much benefit out of it. Although I
suppose certain vulnerable people may derive some comfort from
it, like perhaps the poor family of that girl in Bailey, CO
might. So I guess it isn't ALL bad, right? (Or is it..?)

Just my thoughts for your penny,

B-man

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Never say die

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #27 - Oct 14^th, 2006 at 10:54pm

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife.

http://www.victorzammit.com/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists.

Which therefore is the simpler explanation, soul/afterlife
or we're-just-our-brains?

Of course I've been pondering this question. I strongly believe that we are more than just our brain based on the evidence and research I've come across, but I cannot rest easy on belief, I need to investigate. I WANT to believe in it, true, but I also think I can believe in it objectively. These URL's help me learn more about consciousness and survival.

http://www.horizon-research.co.uk/

http://twm.co.nz/Harm_wldview.html

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/

I would like to get other people's opinions on this too. I think that the majority of the people on this site clearly believe that we are more than our brains. Afterall this is one of the best sites for conversing with people with afterlife knowledge.

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B-dawg

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #28 - Oct 15^th, 2006 at 8:51am

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife.
*****************
-I know that.
_________________

http://www.victorzammit.com?/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists.
*****************
-Check this out:

http://www.aaskolnick.com/dammit/

(Here you'll find quite a list of names in the left column
also..!)

B-man

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chilipepperflea

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Re: Reincarnation who needs it
Reply #29 - Oct 15^th, 2006 at 11:26am

julesruleslondon wrote on Oct 10^th, 2006 at 12:41am:

In response to Deanna also, I'm wondering... if the afterlife is ALL good... well how can that be possible? Don't we need the bad to have good at all?

Hey there,

nope! not as far as i know, from reading Bruce's books (very recommended!) the opposite is Love is not hate but in fact just no love. The opposite of hate is not love, but no hate, nothing! It works with everything.

If you didnt know someone for example, would you love them? Probly not because you dont even know who they are, but does that mean you hate them because you dont love them? nope, you just don't love them!

Hope that makes sense.

Ryan

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