Recently I've been thinking that reincarnation doesn't exist in the manner people tend to believe. Here are some of the reasons.

The other day I was reading Bruce Moen's first book "Voyages into the unknown." I read about when he retrieved Joshua. Bruce had sarcoidosis of the liver at the time. When he retrieved Joshua he found that Joshua had been killed with a spear in the same bodily location as where his liver disease was located. Bruce helped bring Joshua to a healing center at focus 27 so Joshua could be healed. Bruce's physical problem went way.

Bruce spoke as if Joshua was a prior self. When considered from the traditional reincarnation viewpoint, it's hard to understand how Bruce could've taken on Joshua's injury if Joshua had the injury cured before he returned to his disc and prepared for the incarnation of Bruce. It makes much more sense that Bruce's disc created a new probe based not only on Joshua's traits, but also on other disc personality traits according to need. In his third book Bruce wrote that he was told that he's a retriever curl. Therefore his incarnation was created with some retriever traits. Traits that Joshua didn't have. My guess is that Joshua is still hanging around Bruce's disc along with Robert Monroe and others. I also guess that Robert Monroe isn't going to be incarnating again anytime soon, even though his disc might launch another probe.

This chain of thought can be carried over to other occasions when people have injuries that relate to a past life. If the incarnation for which an injury first appeared had gotten to the point to where it was able to make arrangements for another incarnation to take place, it only seems logical that an injury would have been taken care of before another incarnation took place, if reincarnation happens in the manner commonly believed. Perhaps injuries are carried over in order to provide a clue as to how reincarnation really works. When it comes to past life memories, a person might be experiencing memories from other parts of his or her disc.

On page 166 of Far Journeys, Robert Monroe shares something which also suggests a possibility other than the traditional reincarnation viewpoint. Robert asked his I-there/disc, "How far does this go back?" He received the answer: "Before you were born." He said "You had better tell me. I don't remember."  He was told, "You wouldn't. You didn't exist. We made the decision to become human again. We selected the time and place and organized the DNA mix—elements from the physical and elements from us. We took those parts of us that seemed most appropriate, rolled them up into one, and sent them in. There you—and we—were!"

Even Michael Newton's books suggest the above if you consider the meaning of multiple incarnations. Part of a soul stays behind in the spirit World, while two parts of the same soul incarnate. What happens when these two incarnations return to the spirit World? Does their soul say "thank you for the hard work, but it is time for me to disassemble and reintegrate your personalities according to need."? Or does each incarnation return to the "disc" that created them, and are loved in the same manner that a loving parent loves a child?

I've asked my guidance about this and If I'm interpreting the messages I've received correctly, reincarnation doesn't happen in the manner commonly believed. One message I received with symbolic visual messages (translated into words): "does it make sense that the experience of hundreds of incarnations can be stuffed into one body based mind?" I don't believe so. Perhaps a few aspects, but then I'm inclined to think of the aspects left behind in a disc sense. So I'm back to the brand new probe thing.

Also, if reincarnation happens in the manner commonly thought, partly because we are slow to evolve and let go of our unwanted personality traits, then what in tarnation would behoove us to let go of them when we reincarnate? One might argue that our basic personality traits are carried over, but aren't our traits the result of the memories we accumulated during our life? It might not be possible to separate specific memories from our personality traits. They are too interwoven.

Certainly there are some advantages of not having reincarnation work in the manner commonly believed. For one thing, life is a wonderful thing once you get to the spirit World. The more souls that get to enjoy the party the better. Certainly you get more souls if each spirit that incarnates in the physical results in a brand new soul.

Plus, life can be quite tough down here at times. Why require a soul to experience the physical World hundreds of times when they can continue to learn while experiencing the happiness of the spirit World? Especially since communication isn't as limited in the spirit World as it is here. When you think of things from a disc viewpoint, each disc member can continue to learn about physical life from fellow disc members that are currently incarnated in the physical. After all, isn't that what a disc does.

Also consider what people experience during near death experiences. They find that the heaviness of being physical drops away. They find out about the spirit beings they truly are. They find that love and happiness are much more present than they are in the physical. They find that there is no longer anything to be concerned about and resultantly experience great peace. They have a life review, learn about the mistakes they made during their life, and get closure in a manner that numerous psychotherapy sessions would have a hard time matching. Or other words, they obtain what physical people try to obtain while trying to get enlightened.

So why do we physically incarnate at all? Because it represents one way to create our initial identity, and because it enables God and us to find out what's possible with the infinite creative potential that God's being contains.

Another way to think of this, when it comes to what the World requires and what individual growth needs would require when you consider things from the traditional reincarnation viewpoint, a lot of contradictory needs would have to be met. It is hard to see how such contradictory needs could be worked out. Especially since we tend to move away from the big game plan while we are here.

Hi recoverer, thank you for posting your considerations!

>>>Perhaps injuries are carried over in order to provide a clue as to how reincarnation really works. When it comes to past life memories, a person might be experiencing memories from other parts of his or her disc.<<<
It is also thinkable that past incarnations of one's higher self simply have such a strong influence/connection on/with the physical incarnated one that it comes to such things as "bleed throughs" of other incarnations, memories or bodily occurances, these effects on the incarnated one maybe are even stronger when an incarnation, or an aspect of it, is stuck on the way back to the higher self.

I had received this information in meditation that persons are a compound of parts, these parts can separate again, or they can stay together. But they can't separate totally, they will always be bound together by their disc. This struggling or loving, separating or melting parts seems to be a way of evolution. Parts bound together to a higher being seems to be a repeating pattern on different levels (for example the disc is a part of a second-level disc etc.). (Some retrievals I had recently seem to point to this "parts" or "aspects" structure of souls) I then asked if and how this fits with the traditional reincarnation theory; "both is true in a way" was the answer, to me it means the whole thing is not understandable to me as earthling now, and this "both" is a way to come closest to the real thing. Possibly it's meant the traditional reincarnation theory is true in the meaning that other incarnations of my disk are really "me"-because of the same disk, and when I'm complaining about the bad connection to my helpers/disk members there immediately is this thought that I'm never separated, and that I am the disk and the disk is me- (with the known earthly limits of awareness).

>>>It might not be possible to separate specific memories from our personality traits. They are too interwoven.<<<
It is at least thinkable that specific memories are for some reason not as good to implement in an incarnated human as the resulting personality traits. But the other consideration you wrote about, that it sounds unlikely to pack all these memories of hundreds of past lifes in one person, would also applicatable to traits.

>>>Why require a soul to experience the physical World hundreds of times when they can continue to learn while experiencing the happiness of the spirit World?<<<
What I am uncertain of, in which way a person who had left the physical is dwelling in the afterlife; I'm wondering about the degree how much this person would remain this single person like been in the physical, or if a person then would not melt with the higher self, or at least with some members of it, and what we perceive of the people who had passed over is a projection of this higher self, recreating this person to communicate with those still on earth; this doesnt mean it's a sort of illusion, because this person in a way does actually exist, but as in-melted part of the higher self.

>>>So why do we physically incarnate at all?<<<
That's still one of the hardest questions! It is, following the pieces I've gathered about this, a thing of self-exploration under extreme conditions, a sensitivation according some energies/emotions and its concentration and control, and also there is this helping aspect, as if every incarnating soul is also a rescuer and a messenger, to keep all this decaying and confused things&souls on earth connected with the other awareness levels.

Spooky

Excuse me for jumping into this thread; I am working the graveyard shift so I have much time to ponder these questions. I have brought up a similiar question in another thread ( I beleive) titled "Contacting loved ones who've been riencarnated."I found a website that may shed some  insight into my/our question.

http://www.astraltraveler.com/reincarnation.html)

The website stated:

"Reincarnation is an Evolvement of Awareness which gives the entity the ability of infinite time regression. The awareness of time  is an evolvement of experiences that we have. There are no winners or losers as all paths merge in creating a larger one. It's the process where no Being is a Hero but an Entity of an Ancient Vision. When a Being reaches a level of infinite time regression, then progression is inevitable. Esoteric scholars refer to this as levels or worlds - astral planes.Through my experiences of various types of astral projections, I realized that interdimensional projections  are realized by a Thought, and that through the projection the astral body can instantly reach another reality as real as our present. Our present Life is a reality, and every lifetime is a reality with a different mission to be accomplished. Reincarnation results in "death," which in other terms is the permanent projection of the astral body to a different level of awareness common to all.  "

I translated this as meaning we can coexist (at the same time) in another dimension (keeping our entire identity intact). This could be why they say time doesn't exist, becuase it has allready happened, yet it hasn't happened because it is happening now. ( That makes sense to me, hope it does for you  ). Both  points coexist in the same space and time but on a different vibration or dimension.   

I also wonder Spooky2  if when one has reincarned if we can still contact them via higher consciousness. the higher consciousness retrieving that aspect of themselves for our benifit, as that is how we best remember them (in their last incarnation).

Baby_duck.

I am confused!

reincarnation is a complicated and exhaustive topic with many different views. Which one to beleive, I don't know?  I will keep an open mind.

Here is another take on the subject:

"In its existence prior to becoming an indweller in the mortal body, the soul has a consciousness of its existence, and of its relationship to God and to other parts of the Great Soul, and more especially, of the duplex character of its being; and by this I mean the sexual differences in the two parts of the soul, which in the way that they are united, constitute the one complete soul.

Separation is necessary for the individualization of each part of this one complete soul, yet the two parts never lose that interrelationship, or the binding qualities that existed before their separation, and which continue to exist thereafter. And in the great future, after the work of individualization shall be completed, the two parts will come together again and reunite in a complete one

And we further understand, and such is the result of our observation, that when the soul - and keep in mind that I mean the two parts when I say soul - once becomes incarnated and assumes an individualized form, it never thereafter loses that individuality. Hence, it never again returns to its condition of preexistence, and can never again become reincarnated in the existence of any human being.

There is no such thing as reincarnation. All the theories and speculations of men upon that question, which conclude that a soul once incarnated can again become incarnated, are wrong. For the incarnation of a soul is only one step in its destined progress from an invisible, formless existence to a glorious angel, or to a perfected spirit. In this progress, a soul never retraces its steps. It is always progressing, though sometimes stagnation takes place. But it continues as an individualized spirit until it reaches its goal in fulfillment of the Father's Plan for the perfecting of His Universe. " (www.angelicmessages.org).

I think this theory makes reference to the twinflame theory.
I like to look at different angles on the same subject. Don't mean to confuse things, this new source of info made me think and challenges other theories. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle?

Baby_Duck

Caryn:

Regarding the below, I get the impression that incarnations are created from the standpoint of a higher self/disc/oversoul, not from the standpoint of just one of a higher selves incarnations.


augoeideian wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2006 at 7:05am:

Alysia:

Certainly it is up to each person to decide for his or herself about reincarnation. (I wonder if individual sheep have to reincarnate over and over again, or if it's more of a disc thing. .

Regarding what Ruth Montgomery wrote about a green World, I read a near death experience recently, and it stated that in the future when mankind becomes more evolved, it will move away from all this technical stuff (Don't take away the internet please! ) and move back to a more natural way of living. I don't know if this is true.

Hi Recoverer I hope in my heart i do not have to riencarnate anymore,as given a choice i dont want to,but if i have to, i will be able to reincarnate with my twin deanna,as the medium told us we do not have to live another life without each other,so that makes me feel better about reincarnation,because deanna will be with me.but i really would like me and deanna to be in the spirit world for years before ,we had to reincarnate.
Love and God bless you Juditha

Juditha:

I hope in my heart that we don't have to reincarnate anymore, that way spirits don't have to experience the harshness of the physical World over and over and over again, before they can finally abide in the glory of the spirit World for the rest of eternity.

Here's another way to think of it.  A person lives a tough life in the physical World. After dying the spirit of this person ends up earthbound for a while. Eventually this spirit crosses over but ends up in a hell like realm for a while. Eventually, after who knows how long, this spirit becomes tired of the hell like realm, decides to fess up to the mistakes it made, resolves its issues, and then rejoins its home in the spirit World. What happens then? It's told: "Nice job. You finally made it here. You ready to reincarnate so you can do it all over again?"





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