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Thoughts on reincarnation (Read 16755 times)
recoverer
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #15 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 3:33pm
 
Perhaps this is a way of thinking of things that gives a clue as to how reincarnation works.

To begin:
Disc = body
Self/probe = organ
Personality trait/thought pattern/belief = cell.

-For the most part a cell (personality trait/thought pattern/belief) is aware of just its own little World, when in fact it is a part of something much bigger.
-An organ (self/probe) is aware of much more, but still only a part of itself.
-A body (disc) is aware of everything within itself, plus it is aware of things outside of itself. Well, not really outside of itself if you expand the picture a little more and consider things from the perspective of the being that contains all discs.

One night while thinking about what multi-dimensional awareness is like from a higher self/disc perspective, I received the message "I don't need you." Then I was shown a fish tank with some fish in it. I got the impression that my higher self doesn't use my awareness or focus of attention to be aware of what goes on within my life. It already has its own awareness (consciousness) and simply experiences what goes on within my energetic field. After all, how would my awareness look any different than its awareness, if you think of things from a pure consciousness standpoint?

Perhaps each self within a disc percieves the rest of the disc from its own perspective, similar to how each fish within a fish tank would experience the energy field of the fish tank from its own perspective.  As they do so they never stop being a part of the same energy field.

One day while taking a walk I wondered if each self would have enough awareness be aware of an entire disc from its own perspective. The name "Napolean" popped into my mind. Napolean was small but still had a lot of power. This led me to think that if the amount of consciousness that is available is infinite, then it is infinite no matter where it is. It is a matter of how much a self allows itself to be aware of.

This seems to be true when I consider expanded states of meditation I've experienced. I could feel my awareness stretch. Funny thing is, even when my awareness stretched, I found that my higher self could still keep track of me, because it has communicated to me a couple of times as my awareness stretched out. I wonder how stretched out its awareness is. Smiley



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george stone
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #16 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 7:08pm
 
I do think that reincarnation is true.Why.because when my daughter was 3 years old,we were driving along a road.we were stuck intravic,this old lady was walking along on the sidewalk.When out of the blue,My daughter said,mummy do you see the lady walking near our can,My wife yes.My daughter said she was my mother one time.Also I knew a man whos daughter died about 35 years ago of cancer.She was only 23.Her name was beverly.Over the Years,beverly used to come to my mind.I asked my wife what she thought of this.Than one night,I was asleep,and I heard a male voice say beverly.I said what about her.Than I saw a profile of a young girl I know,whos name is melissa.When I talked to melissa about beverly.She told me when she was 23,it was the worst year of her life.doctors could ran tests,but could find nothing that was causing her pain.After that year,she told me she was fine.Beverly body is in a cemmtory in our town.Thats why I believe in reincarnation.Love George
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #17 - Oct 2nd, 2006 at 7:14pm
 
The below experiences can be accounted for when you consider things from the perspective I suggested. A person experiences memories of a self that is a part of his or her disc/I-there. There are some cases where people have past life memories and current knowledge of a person who is still alive.


george stone wrote on Oct 2nd, 2006 at 7:08pm:
I do think that reincarnation is true.Why.because when my daughter was 3 years old,we were driving along a road.we were stuck intravic,this old lady was walking along on the sidewalk.When out of the blue,My daughter said,mummy do you see the lady walking near our can,My wife yes.My daughter said she was my mother one time.Also I knew a man whos daughter died about 35 years ago of cancer.She was only 23.Her name was beverly.Over the Years,beverly used to come to my mind.I asked my wife what she thought of this.Than one night,I was asleep,and I heard a male voice say beverly.I said what about her.Than I saw a profile of a young girl I know,whos name is melissa.When I talked to melissa about beverly.She told me when she was 23,it was the worst year of her life.doctors could ran tests,but could find nothing that was causing her pain.After that year,she told me she was fine.Beverly body is in a cemmtory in our town.Thats why I believe in reincarnation.Love George

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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 2:56am
 
Reincarnation is an interesting topic, not accepted by most Judeo-Christian Theologians but accepted more readily by those in Eastern faiths. 

The answer might be more in the middle.  SOME may reincarnate, but not necessarily everyone.  This is actually speculated on my some Christian theologians as well, though certainly in the minority (I believe Thomas Aquinas was one such).   

As I believe nothing is impossible for the Creator, I believe that it is possible for someone to be granted reincarnation for some purpose, but I do not believe that every single person is made to do so. 

Like Juditha, I'm not too keen about coming back over and over again.  I'd rather become an angel and help out from the spirit side....
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Never say die
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #19 - Oct 3rd, 2006 at 9:10am
 
I have read about communications and this kind of information by trance mediums. They say re-incarnation is true but noone forces anyone to do anything. You do it if you feel it is necessary. Spirits have a high level of sense of good for them and if they should need to fulfill a purpose by coming back again into the earth plane then they do so. A spirit may need to re-incarnate many times to learn the lessons required for their own spiritual growth. Some may not need to re-incarnate much and may choose to spend their 'time' in the astral planes to fulfill their own purposes.

I do think we need to be careful when applying fixed and unalterable rules to these things. Since the reality of the spirit world is one that is projected from our own minds and in interaction with others, we are dealing with many possibilities. It all depends on each souls unique situation. Because while we are part of a oneness that is god, we also have our individual spiritual paths.
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 1:53am
 
NeverSayDie said: I do think we need to be careful when applying fixed and unalterable rules to these things. Since the reality of the spirit world is one that is projected from our own minds and in interaction with others, we are dealing with many possibilities. It all depends on each souls unique situation. Because while we are part of a oneness that is god, we also have our individual spiritual paths.
__

very astute comment. my opinion from intuition and from reading much on the subject is that the overview is incredible from the other side. we see much more possibilities and game plans, etc. when on this level of communion you might call it. communion with beings who have had more or different experiences than ourselves. they do make recommendations for this or that experience to gain, however coercement is an unknown over there and the choice remains in he who has the vision and the will. yet if reincarnation is a non/linear happenstance you can see why Recoverer is getting away from the traditional reincarnation concept and so am I trying to grasp how it works for the common man or woman, although I wholeheartedly agree that exceptions exist for every rule and if it did not, this would be a boring type prison planet which it is not boring, nor a prison for me, yet I understand some will say this and feel it as they meet their challenges.
if u subscribe to "we are all one" then its easier to deal with the thought that there are many of me. I just haven't met them all yet. then if u take it further, all the ones who are one with me are living a life of their own perhaps in 1810 or maybe I'm a caveman somewhere learning how to make fire.
while we're here we deal with a repeat performance of the rising sun which governs our clocks. its one day at a time sweet Jesus. we have no language for what is eternity and cannot be measured. we may get a new language someday..which will allow us to communicate what has never been said before.
by that time, maybe we'll all have hydrogen powered cars and even little spaceships which drive themselves..see, no matter what I must resort to linear time. I do believe though, that the future dimensions are already up and running. and we will do time travels through our minds.
anybody want to come back to a future like that?  Undecided  I might, don't know, nobody's asked me yet! I'd want to be with loved ones or I wouldn't want to come back.

I do subscribe to our oneness but didn't always. retrievals caused me to merge into those I retrieved, sensing our oneness. I have a little story about meeting what Iwant to call a disc member, but for the moment he was my other half, a male half. one day my whole family was running amuck; nobody took responsibility for anything happening and self disapline was certainly not operating. my suggestions how to improve our chances of surviving all in the same house were not taken kindly and so I began to think maybe they were right. I began to think my family were all like children who would not listen to me. I set an intention to see if something was missing inside of me and if I could change myself, not them, perhaps that would be the answer? a wonderful obe situation developed from this thought. it demonstrated the oneness concept me.
I knew guidance was there, although invisible I received instructions. I found myself in someone's house. in the hallway. a full length mirror appeared. a gentle voice said stare into the mirror. I looked and did not see my reflection as I expected. instead a man walked nonchalantly towards me. I felt something intensely familiar about him and knew he loved me as he loved himself.  I knew positively we were one. I also knew my despondancy and despair had brought me to him. he smiled as he strode up. Hi, I said, I'm feeling down, can u help? I asked. nobody listens to me, I don't think they love me. my other half led me to a table and we chatted about our unique style of child rearing, why it worked. we talked a long while it seemed and he convinced me I had not failed my family in my expression to them, that they had needed me, as the opposite viewpoint is always needed to learn by. came back to the body and knew everything I had said or done was how it was supposed to have been said and done. they did love me, they just had not learned to express that love yet.
I got the feeling, but not absolutely sure, this other half, this man is alive physically and it wasn't romantic, unless u can concieve of making love with yourself! ha ha!
and I did get the feeling that this was like a gift meeting, and it was because I needed his input right then. I didn't know I'd missed him until I saw him. it was that kind of surprise reunion meeting. like, omygod, it's you! I know you!

so we forget whom we've known. we forget we are one.  for a reason because we want to live here, or we did at one time and when all is well, we want to live here.   ...
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 3:51am
 
-What a horrible hopeless scenario you paint, Recoverer...

Even Michael Newton's books suggest the above if you consider the meaning of multiple incarnations. Part of a soul stays behind in the spirit World, while two parts of the same soul incarnate. What happens when these two incarnations return to the spirit World? Does their soul say "thank you for the hard work, but it is time for me to disassemble and reintegrate your personalities according to need."? Or does each incarnation return to the "disc" that created them, and are loved in the same manner that a loving parent loves a child?
*****************
-Do children have as much fun in childhood, as adults do in adultery? (Sorry 'bout that, had to say it.) Seriously though...
I prefer adulthood, to being anybody's "child" for the the rest of eternity. I asume I'd have to spend the next gogolplex years (plus infinity) doing what I was TOLD to do? Give me annihilation instead, I say this with all the cosmos as my witness..!
_________________
Also, if reincarnation happens in the manner commonly thought, partly because we are slow to evolve and let go of our unwanted personality traits... It might not be possible to separate specific memories from our personality traits. They are too interwoven.
*****************
-If your idea is correct, we'd be stuck with the same personality FOREVER. (Talk about stagnation...)
_________________
Plus, life can be quite tough down here at times.
*****************
-Of course! That's how we get to gauge our fundamental worth as
conscious entities, by how well we can "drive" a physical body! (Pardon the analogy.) And what about those people who lead lives filled with sicknes/disability, or disappointment, failure, and defeat? I hope they'd have the option of coming back to C1, than just staying losers forever as your scenario would suggest!
_________________
Also consider what people experience during near death experiences. They find that the heaviness of being physical drops away. They find out about the spirit beings they truly are. They find that love and happiness are much more present than they are in the physical. They find that there is no longer anything to be concerned about and resultantly experience great peace.
*****************
-And NO excitement or adventure EVER again, if what you say is right (and I'm not saying it isn't, just hoping it isn't.)

B-man
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B-dawg
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #22 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 5:08am
 
-Truly disturbing implications here...

I hope in my heart that we don't have to reincarnate anymore, that way spirits don't have to experience the harshness of the physical World over and over and over again, before they can finally abide in the glory of the spirit World for the rest of eternity.
******************
-The physical world is only harsh, to the extent that you are poorly
constructed mentally and physically. For normally healthy people
(in free societies!) it's a BLAST! I know this, because even though
my "kit and caboodle" isn't ideal, it's had its good times nonetheless.
I only regret that I couldn't have had it the way an IDEALLY CONSTRUCTED MAN has it. I'll regret it forever, if I don't get that
experience. Also...
How do you know the "spirit world" is glorious? What if the ancients were
right - you just stumble dazedly through a cold, grey wasteland for the rest of eternity? - i.e. Sheol (Hebrews), Hades (Greeks) Hel (Norse), Nergal (Sumerians), Mictlan (Aztecs.)
I'd rather reincarnate than endure THAT outcome! (How about you?)
__________________

Here's another way to think of it.  A person lives a tough life in the physical World. After dying the spirit of this person ends up earthbound for a while. Eventually this spirit crosses over but ends up in a hell like realm for a while. Eventually, after who knows how long, this spirit becomes tired of the hell like realm, decides to fess up to the mistakes it made, resolves its issues, and then rejoins its home in the spirit World. What happens then? It's told: "Nice job. You finally made it here. You ready to reincarnate so you can do it all over again?
*****************
-Sounds COOL to me! A second chance at being:
-Rich! (I can't over-emphasize this one.) Or at least AMBITIOUS
enough to get rich if I want. (As it is, I have some serious motivational
and work-inertia problems.)
-Physical and Mental perfection...
-A super-athlete...
-A super-stud with the ladies...
-A Bad-Ass who NOBODY gets dares mess with...
And last but not least, 20/20 VISION (and not the f***ed
nearsightness I've lived with (and thoroughly detested)
since I was 10 years old. I'm looking at Lasik again, now
that the results have become more reliable, I might try it.
But I'm 37 y/o, and the good part of my life is over. So
I NEED a second chance.)
I might be done with C1 (maybe) after I have a SUCCESSFUL life in C1.
But if there's no reincarnation, I seriously risk going out a LOSER
and staying that same loser, FOREVER. (Unless cryonics works, and I
plan on buying a contract in the not-too-distant future in any case...)
Maybe we don't all get the same thing, but what we WANT! That'd be cool. You can stay in the "afterlife", and I'll keep on comning back here. (I wonder if Universal Reality is a democracy? Now THAT I might be able to get behind, as they say...)

B-man
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #23 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 10:02am
 
B-dawg wrote on Oct 4th, 2006 at 5:08am:
-Truly disturbing implications here...

I hope in my heart that we don't have to reincarnate anymore, that way spirits don't have to experience the harshness of the physical World over and over and over again, before they can finally abide in the glory of the spirit World for the rest of eternity.
******************
-The physical world is only harsh, to the extent that you are poorly
constructed mentally and physically. For normally healthy people
(in free societies!) it's a BLAST! I know this, because even though
my "kit and caboodle" isn't ideal, it's had its good times nonetheless.
I only regret that I couldn't have had it the way an IDEALLY CONSTRUCTED MAN has it. I'll regret it forever, if I don't get that
experience. Also...
How do you know the "spirit world" is glorious? What if the ancients were
right - you just stumble dazedly through a cold, grey wasteland for the rest of eternity? - i.e. Sheol (Hebrews), Hades (Greeks) Hel (Norse), Nergal (Sumerians), Mictlan (Aztecs.)
I'd rather reincarnate than endure THAT outcome! (How about you?)
__________________




I bet the Tsunami victims were having such a blast...after all, the physical world was only harsh to the extent that they were poorly constructed mentally and physically to withstand the tsunami.  (Sarcasm intended.)

hmmm...the Ideally Constructed Man...zooms right out of a Nietzche book....now, about the spirit world being glorious or not, how do you know it is not glorious?  You would be discounting the myriad of visions and near-death experiences that people have that point to a rather comforting interpretation.  Also, some of the traditions you have pointed out have allowance for more...  Norse also had Valhalla and the rebirth of the world following Ragnarok, Sheol was temporary until the coming of the Messiah and Hebrews definitely have a resurrection tradition, the Greeks also had the Elysian fields, etc. etc. 

Not everything has to be as bleak as a Phillip Pullman novel.
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #24 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 12:05pm
 
Chumley:

Certainly spirits can continue to learn, grow and change when they move on to the spirit World. I would hardly call heaven a stagnant place. If someday you find heaven to be a boring and unpleasant place, perhaps they'll make an exception for you. They just don't sit on clouds all day you know.
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #25 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 4:21pm
 
Hello
I am new here and I find this to be a very interesting site.  I have a question about reincarnation.  If I understand correctly, one needs to agree to amnesia before returning here for another life.  I don't see how this is a very efficient way for us progress/improve/evolve etc.  My point is this.  My husband is a math teacher.  For students to master the material in his class, it is paramount that they understand and have a mastery of the material from their previous math classes.  It would be impossible for these students to learn what they are supposed to learn from his class without the requisite background.  Thinking of reincarnation in this kind of context, if we are required to accept amnesia before returning, aren't we starting over from scratch every time?  I would appreciate any insight that anyone would like to offer.   (If there is already an explanation on this site, I apologize for the redundency -- I'm just curious is all).  Thanks !
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #26 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 4:52pm
 
Newbie 38:

Relating to the below, I received two visual messages from my guidance while meditating one day. I was meditating with the intent of finding out how reincarnation works. First I was shown a man who was pulling really hard on a rope that was attached to a huge tent that was enclosed within a smaller tent. I didn't quite understand what this meant.

A little later on I shown a large tent like room (hard to describe) that was occupied by many people who represented various parts of oneself. Suddenly a man popped/walked out of this room of selfs as just oneself.  The other selves that were within the room remained there and continued with their activities.

The first vision gave me the feeling that no way will an incarnating self represent a soul's entire self, because there would be too much experience and knowledge to bring into a new incarnation.

The second vision gave me the feeling that no way are previous selfs/incarnations stored away as nothing more than mere memories, because each of these selves are considered to be too important.

Later that night, after I went to sleep, I woke up in the middle of a night and heard an inner voice say, "every form counts."  With this message came the feeling that every self that is created is considered to be too precious to be treated as nothing more than a computer program that gets reorganized and restored according to need.

Therefore, I get what you're saying below.

newbie38 wrote on Oct 4th, 2006 at 4:21pm:
Hello
I am new here and I find this to be a very interesting site.  I have a question about reincarnation.  If I understand correctly, one needs to agree to amnesia before returning here for another life.  I don't see how this is a very efficient way for us progress/improve/evolve etc.  My point is this.  My husband is a math teacher.  For students to master the material in his class, it is paramount that they understand and have a mastery of the material from their previous math classes.  It would be impossible for these students to learn what they are supposed to learn from his class without the requisite background.  Thinking of reincarnation in this kind of context, if we are required to accept amnesia before returning, aren't we starting over from scratch every time?  I would appreciate any insight that anyone would like to offer.   (If there is already an explanation on this site, I apologize for the redundency -- I'm just curious is all).  Thanks !

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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #27 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 6:06pm
 
Bravo Recoverer! I resonate completely with your vision. we each are precious and I feel this deeply, I always felt uneasy with being put in a drawer or merging with something brought up feelings of losing myself. losing self to the greater good is a lofty goal, however I think we are here for to gain something, not lose something. frankly, I believe every life has at least a smidgeon of gain if we look hard enough. I don't think any experience is necessarily a bad one once we get an overview.
hi newbie, no question is silly and welcome. I don't believe the amnesia is total. in the subconscious part of our minds we can tap the memories and children do this naturally in the first five years of life I've read about this. then society and parents help them forget the rest of the way. but we have the capacity to remember.
I liken this hidden knowledge to something that is protective in a way. to have too much knowledge all at once might cause a person to go into too many directions at once, like a jack of all trades but master of none. just my opinion in regards to building a new ego, a new consciousness where all things are new. this knowledge, my pov, is funnelled into the subconscious as the person prepares to open to it.
my viewpoint is only mine, because I have a strong tendency to be one-pointed when I want to master something.  I know I was an indian woman once, for example, I was given the flashing pictures of this. ever since then, I've wanted to return to that kind of life! Smiley a person may get dissatisfied to have too many memories of who you were at one time. I have a different life to concentrate on now. suppose I remembered all my lives? I wouldn't be me anymore; I'd be all these others..I'd lose my sense of individuality which I think is very important here to be what you can be now, not what you were then, however if I look at these other lives closely, the only thing worth remembering is the PUL, or the love gained from those lives or the way we remember an incident that took courage. The relationships with a lot of the same people continue, in different bodies or forms. life will always be a mystery on this side of the veil and don't we all love a good mystery? I like to create surprises. then when it happens I say "I created a surprise for myself." Huh

happy exploring y'all Smiley
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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #28 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 5:41am
 
Dear newbie 38:


I had once asked to come into contact with my guides (which I rarely do ). One guide stands out in particular. She is gentle, with an accent (maybe british?) and she is almost like Mary Poppins ( a little bit proper). Anyhow, I had asked my guides a similiar question as the question you had posed:  "Thinking of reincarnation in this kind of context, if we are required to accept amnesia before returning, aren't we starting over from scratch every time?"  I had asked my guides why I didn't remember anything (out of frustration) and what was the point in that? Shortly afterwards, for the first time I received an awnser from a distinct voice that surely was not mine (for once!). The voice said "What kind of a test would it be if you knew all of the awnsers?" (said in british accent). So simple yet true, how could I argue?

I beleive that each time we reincarnate our soul wisens up abit, so that even if we do experience amnesia, we are still likely to make better choices the next time around due to a (hopefully) more evolved soul. If we didn't learn much in the incarnation prior to the following, then we run the risk of repeating lessons (but even that is not set in stone).

Take care............Baby_Duck


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Re: Thoughts on reincarnation
Reply #29 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 2:04pm
 
All of this makes me think of my wife who is not terribly satisfied with her body. Neither am I satisfied all that much with mine. After my mid 60's my skin stopped fitting properly, and things leak, squeak, hurt or just don't work properly. The wife says, "Jack up my navel and slide a new body under it." I've been thinking of reincarnating as a mechanoid with an electronic brain ... But that brings up dreary images of rust and more trips to the body shop than my wife makes.

How do we get to that part where we can just be angels to work from the other side?
dave
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