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DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help? (Read 4898 times)
OpenMind4Ever
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DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Sep 6th, 2006 at 11:08pm
 
Hi everyone who may read this. My name is Cole. My whole life since I was four years old has been overshadowed by a deep and depressing fear of death... Not a fear of dieing, but a fear of Nothingness, NonExistance, Absolution. The thought makes me sweat, shake, daze off, and can plague me for hours on end. Cause me restlessness. I'm constantly becoming convinced of the evidence of survival, yet at the same time I have this internal conflict- this sort of voice (mine of course) telling me "No matter what other people say you're in this alone, It's probably all bogus and theres just complete nothingness... after all- why should there be an afterlife?" This always gets me down. Theres so many questions that I have. It may sound odd (just being honest) but I wonder how can tribes people who behave like animals die into an all spiritual existance of thought and love. It just doesn't factor to me. Or do you believe even animals die into another existance? I'm always becoming convinced of the afterlife then all my questions hit me and "reality" bites me in the ass. (or what i've been taught to believe is reality) I guess I always hope imagination offers more truth than "common sense" but it always "occurs" to me that there's probably nothing more than the 70,80 or so years we're on this planet. And again the- "Why should, would- How COULD there be?" My friends think I'm an idiot for worrying about death. "If there's nothing... you wont care anyway" they say. That may be... 'true' but its so damned depressing that it almost... I don't know. My mother is a psychologist and all her books have the same materialistic standpoint as every other type of science. (at least mainstream) I can't help but feel survivalists might just be people like myself- people scared of the inevitable. People who have nothing more than lucid dreams and vivid hallucinations. I pray that's not the case. I hope if there is a god 'it' hears me and "smiles" knowing I'm eternal. But then "common sense" comes into play and makes me feel shitty. I'm a poet (though this post might not reflect my poetic side) and upon looking back at some of my poetry I see so many conflicts in my heart put onto paper. One poem about death being an "old friend" and another about it being an "enemy". One about how I'm doomed to non existance and one about how there MUST be something more to this life. I could go on forever but will spare you. This fear overshadows my life and evertime I hear of someone dieing, I'm just remined of my own mortality. It's very hard for me to go to cemetaries as my tombstone is inevitable. It's just so sad, and maybe I'm self centered in this respect, but very few people (that i know of) share a fear as deep as mine. Or simply ignore it. I wish I could ignore it. Maybe it is a stupid fear, afterall- why worry about something you can't prevent? Why does "common sense" always keep me one step behind believing in the afterlife? I hope you read this thoroughly and address more than just one thing I said. I may be asking a lot but I need some real guidance.
I would normally conceal this, but with the trust that you here will address me as you would anyone else I will state that I'm only 16 years old.
Please don't let my age affect your replies or the integrity of my post.

Thank you all very much for reading.

Cole Randall
OpenMind4Ever
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #1 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 2:19am
 
You sound me last year.  Last year I was 16.

Hmmmm...

Okay, I really can't help you, but I want to make it very clear the you are NOT in this alone.  Yeah, sure, us internet peoples are here...  Roll Eyes but that's not it dude, this is deeper then that.  I mean, I'll give you my f**king number if you want it, call me up anytime and talk about it.  That's how important it is to me that you realise this, because I know exactly what it was like in your position.  I was in it like 10 months ago   Cool

Second, you've been raised to have that opinion about afterlife.  That there's no way it could be true.  Me and you, buddy, we grew up with everything handed to us.  Instant gratification.  Anything you want, with in 5 mins, if you have the funds, it's yours.

Spiritual maturity isn't so easy.

So you reject it, even when faced with the evidence you say you have used as proof.

The only advice I can give you... PUL.

Pure Unconditional Love

I try to practice it every time I interact with somone.  Which is why I'm more than willing to pm you my cell.  It really raises your vibrations, makes you more in tune. 

Basically, the golden rule applys here, but to the extreme.

And, uhhh... it's 1:20 in the morning and I have work and school in 5 hours so...

d*mn...
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"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
 
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Shirley
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #2 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 5:59am
 
Cole, I see several things in your post.

The fear of the unknown, in this case death, is normal.  Its not quite normal for a 16 yo, most are more concerned with more "earthy" things.  So, you are ahead of most of your peers. Smiley

Another is the "god" belief..or perhaps the need to believe that there is a god who bequeaths eternal life to us mere mortals.  Personally, I don't believe in a god..of any sort, yet I do believe we are all immortal.  I'm thirty years your senior..spent 23 years entwined in a belief system that nearly destroyed me (Christianity).

It reminds me of those who push creationism as opposed to evolution.  If you believe there is a creator, you must therefore conclude its biblegod who did it.  Same thing with "if there is an afterlife, there must be a god who controls it."

The easiest way to allay these fears is by exploring for yourself.  There are many links at the top of this website showing how to do this.  Bruce's books are a great source also.

Just know..you are not alone.
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 7:34am
 
Hi, Cole,

 as I posted a few days ago to another forum member who shares the same fear, I can understand you perfectly well as this was/is my feeling regarding death. I can/could not support the idea of ceasing of exist. And everything "spiritual" was just wishful thinking.

 I was so afraid, I was not able to read about the issue, thinking that the scientific facts would make clear that we do not survive.  And I've spent a lot of years feeling that fear, as I'm now 37.

 Until one day, a few months ago, when I was able to investigate a bit. Then I reached this page, and also

http://www.victorzammit.com
http://www.near-death.com/index.html
http://www.nderf.org/

http://www.nderf.org/vonlommel_consciousness.htm
http://www.nderf.org/vonlommel_skeptic_response.htm

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org

http://www.thepsychicbarber.co.uk/index.html

http://www.afterlifeshow.com/

And a great book "Is there an afterlife? of D. Fontana":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1903816904/002-0171924-5320036?v=glance&n=2 83155

and many other resources which have help, together with the messages I read in this forum, to make me if not 100% sure, at least capable of thinking there could be anything else after this life.

As you say, still not sure 100%, so there are moments when the feeling comes again, as you say, it seems that  out so called "common sense" always keep us one step behind believing in the afterlife. But not as frequently as before, and when it happens, I can always think about the "facts" described in those books and webs I mentioned. I mean, when I think that "after all- why should there be an afterlife?", I can answer now, "well, I don't know why but it seems there is one".

As I said to Iviewolfe I'd love "see a ghost, hear a voice, anything" but meanwhile, I'm reading Bruce's books to see if I'm able to investigate the afterlife on my own.

I hope this can help you a bit as it did to me.

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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 12:06pm
 
Cole:

All I can say is that because of numerous experiences I've had I know that there is an afterlife, and I know that it is wonderful, not just a mere big nothingness.

The power that created this vast universe doesn't come to and end when it creates at a level beyond this physical universe.

The energy of existence vibrates at different rates. It vibrates at a slower level in the physical World. When it vibrates at a faster frequency, you experience the wonder of the spirit World.

Just live a good life, grow in love, and you'll be okay.
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Cosmic_Ambitions
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #5 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 12:54pm
 
Well put Recoverer.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions
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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #6 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 3:56pm
 
Hi Cole,

I admire your honesty and willingness to wrestle with an age-old conflict that many people don't address until they are much older than you.  Have you ever tried meditation, in a deep way? I probably sound like a broken record advising this as the remedy for all ills but there is a reason why I do recommend it.

You are a poet and already have developed your intuition in order to express yourself in that way.  You know yourself well.  In meditation I think you might easily have some wonderful experiences which might put you in touch with the greater part of your being which some people like to call their higher self. When you get in touch with that part of yourself your fear of death will evaporate. You will realize that you are part of everything, and everything is part of you, and accepting that has been a huge part of my own gradual reduction in fear of death.

I believe that fear of death is simply a misunderstanding of who you really are. If you believe you are confined to your physical body you will fear losing it. If you see yourself as a small expression of a much greater reality it is much easier to view death as a transition.  You already know this.  You just want to feel it.  Meditation and many forms of prayer connect us with the greater reality.  Look for signs in your life, for synchronicity which cannot be ignored. This kind of evidence of intriguing connections is interesting.  Also, try reading Bruce Moen's books, and Robert Monroe's books. Try doing some exploration on your own and see what happens. Anything can.

much love, blink
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #7 - Sep 7th, 2006 at 6:25pm
 
Thank you person with ambitions that are cosmic in nature. Wink


Cosmic_Ambitions wrote on Sep 7th, 2006 at 12:54pm:
Well put Recoverer.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #8 - Sep 9th, 2006 at 6:10pm
 
Hi Cole,

You've already heard the logical answer regarding the fear of nothingness: There is nothing to fear. That's logical.
But, I also saw a different thing in your post: You feel that it would be such senseless if there really would be nothing beyond physical death. I must say, these thoughts are logical too. I wonder why not more people have these thoughts, must be a sort of well armored thought-protection that you apparantly do not have. Indeed, before the background of nothing after physical death, life would just make no sense- at least to me.

There are two ways I see for you, you can go both:

Seek for evidence for the existence after (and before) the physical death. That is mainly through reports of near-death-experiences, through other reports of experiences in altered states of awareness, and experiences in own meditations (I've tried it and it changed my life, and I'm not a freak, really). You don't need to become a monk and sitting hours every day. The key is relaxation, to shutdown the senses as much as possible, maybe to ask (or ask for) something and to pay attention, and to write down the experiences.

See the logic of philosophy.
"Scientists" who are telling everyone there is nothing after death don't tell what is scientifically proven, they tell about their own belief system and cover it with science. They are no good scientists, they misuse science to promote their own beliefs. There's in my opinion a simple psychologic rule behind it. They are uncertain about this belief, and when they make others convince of their own doubted beliefs, then their own doubts diminish for a while; but because they're not soluted, they remain and come back and that's why many of this materialistic scientists are so busy to repeat their oh so "scientific" view, which isn't scientific at all (this of course is also true for other doubting belief system fighters, for example religious, the more urge and force one spend on promoting a belief system, the more doubt and fear is involved, that's my opinion).
You already have philosophied a bit. There is this theoretical assumption that all you are experiencing is in your mind (not in your head, because your head also would be part of this mind-world). This must be true, because perception is in your mind right? If not, you wouldn't perceive. (If you are the only one or not of course no one could prove that to be wrong or to be true.) Let's play around with it. If your world is (or is in) your mind, then it is a world of consciousness. Physical death then loses it's specialty, because everything is consciousness. There is no evidence that your consciousness would end because your body falls off. And see, this world in your mind, how much possibilities do occur from this point of view. There is no fundamental gap between dreams, imagination, and sensual perception. There could be people who live in exactly the same circumsdances, the one is happy, the other depressed. See how much depends on everyones own way to approach the world.

Did you ever see "nothing"? I did not. How comes that many people think there is nothing when they never have seen something like "nothing"? Fear, I thought sometime ago, always is about something not yet here (and mostly never ever here), if something is here, present, happening, it could maybe hurt you, shock you, or whatever, but you then can deal with it, but fear always is about something you imagine. If you realize this, you can better influence it.

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #9 - Sep 10th, 2006 at 12:31pm
 
Hi Cole,

First, you  have no conflict.

It only seems so because you are identifying yourself as different and apart
from the process of seeking (any mystery or unknown).
If you begin to think of your whole life as this process, and love it in that way
your thoughts and feelings about death will change accordingly, and very quickly.

Further, if you are a poet, then you must recognize that you have removed or
changed lines in your poems in order to acheive greater perfection.
This is all death is.
Being creative is a good way to practice this insight.
In being creative, you have metaforically died a thousand times, while what persists?
Your CONSCIOUSNESS.

It is the involved soul, not the body which evolves through this process.
Would you want to wear the same shirt for 100 years?

If you want to transcend 'conflict' about death,
creatively examine your assumptions about what is LIFE.

You apparently have tremendous sincerity and receptivity,
and those are huge advantages in seeking truth.
Please don't make a big thing out of what you feel is a 'deficiency' in your comprehension.
"Just get busy with what it is you are trying to discover" (I think Picasso said that)

What you are going through is quite normal for someone who is awakened/awakening - seeking answers. So relax and have fun with it.

There are so many who remain 'asleep', even by choice - that is the real death.


U


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"What the soul sees and has experienced, that it knows; the rest is appearance, prejudice and opinion."
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #10 - Sep 10th, 2006 at 5:34pm
 
Wow... I can't thank everyone who replied enough. It's amazing to me... almost tear envoking that there are people out there who are so deep (rather than the (seemingly) shallow individuals I encounter on a dailey basis). I am starting to change my perception on my fears based on what you've said and you've been helpful in that sense. I still have a lot of questions though. Maybe they're questions that only I can answer, and that only time can allow. But I really can't thank you enough. If any of you- or anyone else that reads this has anything else to say Please do.
Thank you all.
Smiley
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Re: DEEP, CONSTANT- INTERNAL CONFLICT ... help?
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2006 at 8:25pm
 
Hi cole
by the time you see this you will lready have an understanding of what is going on through others and reading these posts
keep reading and enjoying and you will come to realise that it is a fear based on what societys beliefs rather than the truth
hope you feel better
Cathy B
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Hold fast to dreams&&For if dreams die&&Life is a broken-winged bird&&That cannot fly. &&&&Langston Hughes
 
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