Just wanted to add something about the idea of Islamic hijackers not suffering if they get to their BST/hollow heaven...

I can't claim this as definite, but I believe I was shown that BST once, as I've written about before on here.  Yes, the virgins were there, and yes, there was a lot of food there, and yes, the garden was somewhat ornate...but there was also a very high wall around the whole thing, and no doors that I could see.  A guilded prison is still a prison.

Also, as far as the sexual gratification element is concerned...that's not heaven.  Inmates in male corporeal prisons receive homosexual gratification from each other.  Inmates in corporeal prisons are also fed.  Sure, in physical  jails they might not get quail or venison, but in the context of eternity, (or very close to it) that's hardly a major point.

I'm not meaning to bash Islam specifically at all by writing this, but what I am meaning to say is that the depiction of heaven in all of the major religions (Islam included) that I've seen hasn't really been anything all that great.  The common element basically describes an eternal continuation of what would be considered positive conditions in a physical environment, with no variation.  A great song about this is actually called Heaven, by the Australian band Icehouse, if any of you are interested in finding it.

The only true heaven for me anyway is freedom of movement, with the opportunity for endless diversity of experience, exploration, and development.  A fixed, repetitive amount of physical gratification within a walled box is exactly the opposite. 

It doesn't matter how opulent it might look on the surface.  It's a prison, and it will ultimately cause just as much torment as Dante's representation of Hell, given enough time.  People who go to such a place are not getting away with anything.

 

Quote:


Somewhere else that I just remembered seeing a representation of this is in the film Gladiator.  At times in it we're shown the Elysium BST...and again, although there are fields inside it, it's depicted with a wall around it and a single door leading in.  The same is actually true of the description of the New Jerusalem given in Revelation...the wall is a very consistent element.

Hi Bob,

I have to disagree with one point.  The life review has been reported in many NDEs by people who had no previous notion of it.  It even surprised them.  So I don't think the terrorists need to believe a life review will come.  It seems universal. 

As for their "reward," I don't think you can fool your soul.  And so, after death, either with a life review or with their sould recognizing the pain and terror they inflicted, their spirits must realize fairly immediately that this is not the path to God.  They knew it on earth, you see, only not in their waking brains.  It just becomes obvious, after death. 

They may have a hollow heaven - I'm not really sure.  But with like attracting like, and the laws of karma (reaction and opposite reactions), I'm fairly certain they will be unhappy.

One can not kill, maim, and then happily ascend in vibration to love and God.  At least not without some rehabilitation.


Matthew

Petrus - thanks so much for joining in on this conversation.  You're hitting "bulls-eyes" with all your posts.  And Bob and Alysia's responses add more icing to the cake.  Here's what I've gathered so far concerning "hollow" heavens:

If you truly believe in a "hollow" heaven before you discard your body you will attain that hollow heaven on the other side after crossing over.    But only people who believe the same as you can reside in that "hollow" heaven.  Walls, visible or invisible, need to surround such a heaven in order to protect the believers from negative influences from outsiders who believe differently.  Until someone in that community starts to question or doubt the belief system or feels the slightest bit of unfulfillment they are stuck there for how ever long it takes.

As far as life reviews go, it may be that you have to be ready for that event before it can happen to you.  In other words, if you truly believe that the people you hurt deserved to die (because of the "supposed" threat that they impose on you and your loved ones), then perhaps the life review would not be very effective at that time.  If CW's or helpers are the ones to set up such an event, it would seem more advantageous to wait until someone starts to seperate from a hollow heaven before subjecting them to a life review.  That way it will have the greatest effect and help the individual the most.

Mathew I hope this helps...
If someone is really into ugly and extremely dark deeds, when they die they don't automatically see the light and know that they were evil.  Quite the contrary, they seek darkness so they can carry on their ugly deeds as far away from light as possible.  The individual has to desire to change in order for change to take place.

Thanks all.
Love Rick

Greetings all. a very deep thread is this. thanks Rob, Petrus, Doc and Rick to give us more insight. everyone I left out, I include you. my thoughts this morning is the people who give me the most trouble are precisely the people I need in my life so I can figure out myself, why I feel that way and what belief I'm holding about them which possibly could be off the mark. a good match of the wits is something we humans like to engage at times for self discovery I'd say, but not for pure competitive reasons necessarily; you can get that by watching a football game.
what I found in my life that I'd rather have a cross word thrown at me, a misinterpretation of my intentions rather than to be ignored, so its all good the way I see it. I have to agree balance is a good thing of polarity energies. we seem to have a good balance of both here on this forum right now.
it was basically Bob's viewpoint of his trip to hell that started up this wonderful thread and draws us all into it and brings us together in thought. I like this togetherness very much. I have a feeling that too much negativity would have shut us down here, at least on this one thread, just as too much la de da positive energy with no thought behind it could have shut us down the same way.

in regards to the life review, all of us could be right. my viewpoint is that the life review most often begins when a person gets a lot of years on them..it just naturally occurs that you begin looking back at your life as death approaches to see if you did ok with the life or if you could have done better. I observed my mother doing her life review piece by piece at age 83, this with my grandmothers help, as her spirit guide.
as for me doing self retrievals was very much like doing the life review; owning all the parts of self, accepting that was what happened and I made efforts to be all right with it and think I succeeded. now when I pass over I'm already clear if I could have done better and dont have to be subjected to any big surprises. also when people go thru mid life crises, that is a lot like a self assessment period, or a belief system crash so its really a good time of life in disguise if they can get help from friends especially.

its important to mention that stuck people in hollow heavens are not of the opinion they are stuck, and its not a retrievers job to inform them of their error, because they do not feel they are in error or stuck. DP says judgment belongs to god because we humans are so prone to misuse our judgment of others. its like gossip. its a no no on the higher levels. it is for them to desire more life, to become a seeker within themselves and then guides can get their attention to assist; whether by a review of their experiences or to a school where education can take place.

just briefly I retrieved a rapist/murderer once and I was not the one who instructed him that what he did was wrong. a social worker guide took him off. as for his mentality I could see he was not aware or understanding the hurt he had caused. he was mainly feeling that he had no control over anything in his life, but he knew that if he raped and killed then for a moment he felt in control of another part of life. in addition his mother had told him he was worthless so he was trying to prove otherwise. it was all about his self image. the guides told me to find something good about him and start talking, then he would come with me. I talked my head off until the guide relieved me of duty. what I got out of this retrieval personally was a feeling that I was safe in the world from this type of person and no matter what they've done, they can be retrieved to a better place.

hugs, alysia

>Is there any way to find or visit them?  I'm curious as to your views on that,
>as most families have quite a mix of people regarding beliefs and seriousness
>toward conventional religions, though the members of that family still love
>each other greatly.

Hey newway,
My own experience would suggest that it's entirely possible for relatives to visit an individual stuck in a BST.  Whether or not said individual would see *them* or be able to communicate with them on the other hand is a different story.

If, as one example, a person's idea of Hell was to be entirely alone in a black void, then the relatives of said person could definitely go into said void and attempt to speak with the person...but they most likely wouldn't be able to get through to them because it'd be the person's own perceptions/expectations (of being utterly alone) that would be blocking them out.

Another scenario though...when I possibly was shown the Islamic BST, it was from the perspective of being outside it, looking in.  I actually moved towards it in order to look at it in greater depth, but was blocked from going inside.  Although I didn't see anyone, my perception was that there were Helpers/some individuals nearby who didn't want me going in there because they were worried that if I did, it'd be at least a fair while before I came out!  

I figured that if I hadn't still been alive that of course wouldn't have been a problem...but going into a BST and potentially getting stuck there when projecting while alive could potentially mean the coma or death of the person and hence a screwing up of their life purpose...thus why I was blocked.

That might sound like a contradiction of what I said earlier about considering that hollow heaven a prison...but I will confess to being sufficiently hedonistic that if I knew that I could leave such a place at any time, although I undoubtedly *would* leave it in due course, I wouldn't necessarily mind visiting it for the equivalent of a few months or years first.  I suppose that says that I'm not quite as developmentally elevated as I might have hoped.

In the context of the Afterlife though, the only real perceptual difference between the Bahamas and Alcatraz are how difficult they are to leave.  In the case of the former, you can go there for a few weeks, have a great time, and then come back and go on with other things.  In the case of the latter, once you're there, leaving might be possible, but it's very, very difficult.

Since I have thoughts that are similar to others I don't have anything new to add, but here are my two cents anyway.

A spirit who hangs around 75 imaginary, souless virgins isn't getting over. Eventually he'll find that such empty entertainment doesn't come close to making him feel good inwardly, and before he can discover the wondrous love and joy that exists within his soul and continue to grow spiritually, he'll have to become honest with himself and fess up to what he did.  Imaginary, souless virgins? Of course. It isn't like real female souls who could offer him true love would have to play the part of his women. Not unless a selfless spirit or two played such a role in order to help him wake up.

In no way do I believe that God, the higher self nor the guides of such a man would have judgemental feelings towards him. Certainly they would understand how easy it is to get confused while down here. The fact of how so many people do get confused shows that this is the case.

I feel very fortunate that I'm a person who gets to experience a lifetime that doesn't include negativity. In a way I give credit to people who experience negativity and do negative things, because I believe they are carrying the burden of the inevitable fact that if you have a World of duality that isn't limited by does and don'ts, some people are going to end up being people who express the negative possibilities.

I'm not certain, but my guess is that while many spirits have a life review shortly after they cross over, spirits who have really closed down their awareness don't. They aren't forced to do anything. That's why retrievels are needed.