Senote:

Why would an angel created by God fall? Some say because of free will. But having a free will doesn't mean you have to be a complete idiot and turn your back on God after having had a chance to know him.

I believe that if somebody knew what it was like to be in a heavenly realm and the presence of God, they would find it impossible to fall.

IF an angel could fall, then what would stop anybody else who went to heaven from doing the same.

According to what I've found, the fallen angel concept began with Lucifer in Isaiah. THE ORIGINAL HEBREW TEXT OF ISAIAH, DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A FALLEN ANGEL. It wasn't until later texts that such language was incorporated. Isaiah is about a fallen Babylonian king, not a fallen angel.

Don (Berserk), who knows the Bible and its history much better than me, stated the same thing on another post.

If you're interested, here are some internet articles that speak about the matter.

http://www.godward.org/Hebrew%20Roots/Feature%20Articles/who_is%20lucifer.htm

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sojouner/devil/devilintro.html

Here's part of the relevent text, plus a little commentary from the site's Author.

Taunt of the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:4b-21)
Is 14:4b “Look how the oppressor has met his end!
Hostility has ceased!
14:5The Lord has broken the club of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers.
14:6It furiously struck down nations
with unceasing blows.
It angrily ruled over nations,
oppressing them without restraint.
14:7The whole earth rests and is quiet;
they break into song.
14:8The evergreens also rejoice over your demise,
as do the cedars of Lebanon, singing,
‘Since you fell asleep,
no woodsman comes up to chop us down!’
14:9Sheol below is stirred up about you,
ready to meet you when you arrive.
It rouses the spirits of the dead for you,
all the former leaders of the earth;
it makes all the former kings of the nations
rise from their thrones.
14:10All of them respond to you, saying:
‘You’ve also become weak like us!
You’ve become just like us!
14:11Your splendor has been brought down to Sheol,
as well as the sound of your stringed instruments.
You lie on a bed of maggots,
with a blanket of worms over you.
14:12Look how you have fallen from the sky,
O shining one, son of the dawn!
You’ve been cut down to the ground,
O conqueror of the nations!
14:13You said to yourself,
“I will climb up to the sky.
Above the stars of El
I will set up my throne.
I will rule on the mountain of assembly
on the remote slopes of Zaphon.
14:14I will climb up to the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High!”
14:15But you were brought down to Sheol,
to the remote slopes of the pit.
14:16Those who see you stare at you,
they look at you carefully, thinking:
“Is this the man who shook the earth,
the one who made kingdoms tremble?
14:17Is this the one who made the world like a desert,
who ruined its cities,
and refused to free his prisoners so they could return home?”’
14:18As for all the kings of the nations,
all of them lie down in splendor,
each in his own tomb.
14:19But you have been thrown out of your grave
like a shoot that is thrown away.
You lie among the slain,
among those who have been slashed by the sword,
among those headed for the stones of the pit,
as if you were a mangled corpse.
14:20You will not be buried with them,
because you destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked will never be mentioned again.
14:21Prepare to execute his sons for what their ancestors have done.
They must not rise up and take possession of the earth,
or fill the surface of the world with cities.”

This passage is an imaginative poem.  Its content is a taunt.   Just as the trees didn't literally "get down and party" when the king of Babylon died (14:8), we shouldn't read the description of Sheol as a theological treatise on the afterlife.

The passage is clearly about the literal Babylon (14:4a, 22) and her human king (14:16).  As the epitome of evil, the language used to describe the arrogance of the king of Babylon here is used by Paul to describe an eschatological "man of lawlessness" in 2 Th 2:4 (cf. Isa 14:13-14).  But Paul is not interpeting this passage in Isaiah as referring to him, but rather using the language as a sort of cliche; at most, he is treating the king of Babylon as a type of the man of lawlessness.

Historically, it has been a common practice to spiritualize this entire passage to be about Satan rather than the human king of Babylon.  This misinterpretation is behind much popular mythology about Satan.  The reference in 14:11 to his string instruments (which in context would not refer to the king's personal instruments, but the instruments of the musicians at his court -- compare with David playing the harp at Saul's court) is behind the myth of Satan originally being the chief musician of heaven until he attempted to rebel and take over.  Whatever the actual details of Satan's fall from heaven, this passage is not about that.

It comes from this site.

http://www.jeff-jackson.com/new/religion/eschatology/Isaiah13-14.html  

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Hi Recoverer There are a lot of people out there that associate 666 as the devils number and the devil started off as a good angel but he tryed to turn angels against god,and god got to know this ,so he threw satan down to earth with his fallen angels and god gave him a thousand years to do what he does and when the thousand years is up,satan will try to rise against god with his armies of evil followers and god will throw him into the abyss with all his followers and satan will be locked up for all eternity.

And then there will be a new earth and all the evil will be banished forever and suffering will be a thing of the past . Thats what a lot of people beleive out  there,and i do as well. As for deluded raindrops ,it must be poaring of rain out there in the world.Love and god bless juditha

 

Juditha:

Isn't it possible that people are responsible for their own negativity? Just look at this board and the varied belief systems. You see all kinds of opinions. This shows that people can be psychologically conditioned in many different ways. Perhaps some people get psychologically conditioned in a manner that causes them to view things negatively and to do negative things.

A negative way of being is possible for all of us. Part of the challenge of being here is overcoming the negative/egotistical part of ourselves, and instead living according to our deeper inner selves. This is more a matter of where our heart is, than what we believe in.

If satan actually is the cause of the negativity that some people live according to, then why are some people influenced by him while others aren't? It is logical to suggest that if people are going to be influenced by such a critter, then they have to have some badness in them to begin with, which does away with the need of using satan as a scapegoat/explanation as to why people do negative things.

If satan exists, why doesn't God just stop him right now, rather than allowing him to effect millions of his children in a negative way that leads to them spending all of eternity in hell. To believe that God would allow something such as satan to influence his children in such a way, is to underestimate God's love for us by a long shot.

It isn't simply a matter of believing in Jesus in a particular way, because there are lots of wonderful hearted, loving people who don't believe in Jesus in a particular way and who aren't influenced by some supposed negative outside cause.

What warms your heart more? To believe in the dispensationalist viewpoint and expect that Jesus is going to some day gather all of the people who believe in a "particular way" and leave everybody else behind so they can fight it out for a while until they eventually go to hell for all of eternity, or that in the end God has planned his creation so that eventually just about all of his children find true happiness in his kingdom?

The article I posted at the beggining of this thread gives a very rational explanation for what Revelations means. There are Christians who have interpreted revelations in this way for years. Do you really believe the World was waiting for somebody like Hal Lindsey to come along?    

My bet is that if you were an angel in heaven, you wouldn't let somebody like satan stear you away from God? Perhaps God's angels have the same love and goodness within them that exists within you, and therefore should be given much more credit than they are sometimes given.

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You're welcome deanna:

If one's mind has been conditioned to believe that 666 or someting else is scarry, then they are liable to have a fearful response when exposed to it.  I bet you 666 doesn't scare God, Jesus or John (the author of revelations). Why be scarred by somebody else's misinterpretation?

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Juditha:

I agree with you on the important part. When you die you'll go to heaven where only love exits.



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i dont know with which god jesus was speaking if satan is a fallen angel in its mind..but i feel jesus was a special human...just as mohammed and just as millons of others that we havent heard of..and all i know if he was ever shown satan suffer..that must have definitely hurt him more.

in 06.06.06 there was a stiff feelin in the air. "an earthquake is coming?" feeling it was..i think huge amount of people really gave that day a credit.

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Actually I'd argue that yes it is possible god might have created satan, after all i'm sure God is a humble fella and would never argue he is perfect and thus can make mistakes.

Thats assuming your belief system relies on God as the 'creator' figure, if you prefer to believe that  material existance is a creation of the universal concious or intelligence then you could argue that 'God' and the 'Devil were created by ourselves to a) fulfill the religion role for those who require it and b) to create this black to white scale of Good to Evil that we use to judge our own actions.