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the soul's elation (Read 2625 times)
betson
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the soul's elation
Jun 4th, 2006 at 4:53pm
 
Greetings,
My question arises from just reading a scientific essay that proves mystical experiences are real by proving them correct in reporting there is no time or space. (by Ian Goddard, rec. on a nearby thread)--- I got no response from my upper chakra areas as I read the essay--nothing.  To be honest I found I didn't really care a whit about what that essay said, altho the information was new to me and should be exciting, I suppose.
Yet when I read spiritual material with revelations and insights that are new to me, and when I have spiritual experiences, such as OBEs--intended or returns from 'click-outs', retrievals, whatever, there is a fluttering of excitement,  a  warmth, and fullness at heart, throat, 3rd eye, and crown. I've come to use these responses as a gauge of the truth of whatever I've just experienced.  I find I get 'addicted' very easily, and if I can't find/make such an experience within my expected timeframe, I become very 'grumpy.'
Are there dangers to such an addiction?
How will I ever become spiritually literate if my motivation doesn't include seeking more scientific explanations of what is happening?
You all come from a variety of backgrounds spiritually and yet you all speak to each other, pretty much, with understanding. ( I'm not stupid--I can write grammatically, usually.) I would like to understand all your points of view better. I don't want to be a spiritual 'bimbo.' 
I tried reading Swedenbourg because i thought if I read what Berserk likes, I will be getting more educated on these matters.  But I found myself 2nd guessing S ad infinitum, like"well, maybe he didn't really mean those spirits were solid; maybe he should have said they appeared "as if solid" or "I recall them as solid." It ruined his authority for me. I don't want to be illiterate in this field.
bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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LaffingRain
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Re: the soul's elation
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2006 at 5:33pm
 
Hi Bets..I think you're on the right track my opinion. the essay you read that there is no time or space is what ACIM (A Course in Miracles) says in that we are in a movie of physicality; or shall we say all is appearing to be solid with the 5 senses to tell us this; while to my observation and experiences, we are spirits navigating a physical realm. ACIM says not only is time and space an allusion, all is allusion and especially is our self image an allusion.
nobody will understand this at once. it takes a full year to do the student handbook of 365 lessons. and most people don't get it until they read the text book over and over. example: I've been a student of ACIM since 1986. thats how long it takes me but not complaining. also I don't mean to tell anyone to choose this path as all paths will lead to the same destination my opinion and I sense you are well on the path of your own.
the chakras are interesting when they open are they not? I see you are aware of these energy portals and they are associated with kundalini rising whereby higher knowledge flows in as an energy. we are energy ourselves so we are not separated from higher knowledge. I too receive energy when reading something whether I shall continue reading it or not. the body resonates to truth...is this not strange to you? it is to me..it's relatively new to me. I'd say the solar plexes, the heart, the throat and head chakras I can receive energy through. its always very pleasant.

I don't see it as an addiction. smoking cigs is an addiction, being a seeker after truth and knowledge and discerning your truth upon the body is not an addiction..its more of a pathway.
I have not read Swedenbourg because of Don's presentation or interpretation of him, I am turned off. yet I would not say that anyone's interpretation of anyone else is 100% on. in regards to feeling solid flesh as a spirit, during a retrieval, this can be done. I have done it. it lends a lot of reality to the situation, I can say that much!!  but for the most case you can get beyond needing to utilize the solid feel of the body to confirm something is real or not.

I should tell u what happened..I was retrieving Cami and touched or moved into her leg, we were sitting so close out there..as I did so I was asking about her family..she was all alone. suddenly I almost lost my line of questioning, my objective to retrieve her from her confusion; as I stopped to ponder on her solid state of being..her leg was warm and it was flesh. this made the retrieval real to me, and I had asked for my physical senses to be involved and a guide agreed we could do that. i quickly took my focus off her leg and the retrieval went really well.

but you are not a bimbo!!! get out!!! I love your presence here. what you seem to be undergoing is a transformation process...it may take years as it does me, so don't pick on Betson...I like her!

thinking of you dear. alysia
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: the soul's elation
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2006 at 6:05pm
 
HI Bets-

Sounds like you're moving along in a wonderful direction!

The dangers associated with enjoyment are solely that we have a built in tendency to look for enjoyment, as opposed to the circumstances associated with creating joy. It's the same as the serious yogi who "tries out"  a drug in order to gain more insight and gets sidetracked into wanting more pleasure, more blinking lights and funny hallucinations, as opposed to more enlightenment. 

To compulsively seek pleasure is a side effect of the human condition, since your body has to seek pleasure in order to be conditioned by events in the physical world. It's not bad, but it can be a nuisance, and requires that we keep on top of our activities.

If you look into Estern thinking you'll notice that there are three yoga paths, one based on love, one based on actions, and one based on understanding. So long as your activities are motivated by attainments within these areas, they will also bring the ecstatic events you mention. And, because you know you are looking for growth, rather than just to be tickled by things, you can safely use the sense of ecstatic joy as a measure of what you're getting out of things. However, if you start looking for things that are hedonic, as opposed to enlightening, then you could get seriously sidetracked.

That you ask this question suggests that you are well allong the path you have chosen. That's an advanced insight! May you continue with even greater success in the futre.

dave

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spooky2
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Re: the soul's elation
Reply #3 - Jun 4th, 2006 at 9:09pm
 
Hi Betson,
>>>Are there dangers to such an addiction?<<<
When I have read fastly interesting spiritual books there is a saturation point, where I'm "full" so to say. I then stop reading and look around me. This is like phasing back, or awake from literature. When this read had been blessing, this phasing back can be uncomfortable, I usually think then: "See, now you've read of all those miracles and enlightenments and you're sitting still in your kitchen and are not enlightened at all." That's the point where I decide not to go to the next nice book to phase into another fascinating literature world, but to see what I can reach on my own of what I found such delighting in my literature. That's I guess the point Dave talked about, "more", where learning can turn into consumption and entertainment. Digestion should take place, otherwise it can all become more and more shallow with time, like drugs usually do. It's the same with my mind-journeys, there are times I'm very active, and then I feel like all is getting more and more meaningless. This is probably the overload point, where I passed the border of learning vs consumption, and then I should reread my journey-notes to work about what I had got. It's so easy to make entertainment out of those journeys, but there is a point where it doesnt' work any longer this way. That's my experiences.

>>>How will I ever become spiritually literate if my motivation doesn't include seeking more scientific explanations of what is happening?<<<
Some years ago I had to choose if I should write a dissertation to get promoted to a doctor's degree. I decided no. One of the reasons for my decision was I regularly become overly emotional when reading philosophical literature. Mostly it was because I found it just silly and not philosophic at all. So I had to write a fundamental negative critique. I realized, that is not the psychological shape one should be in when becoming a scientist who must read and write tons of scripts. I never again wanted to read texts which I'm not interested in, which makes me upset and wasting my time writing critiques about it. As scientist you should stay pretty cool. But I am not cool enough regarding my literature.
In spiritual issues, I see no science like natural science. The ways of verification and falsification of natural science simply are not applieable in most cases of spiritual matters. So, there is no "scientific explanation" of spiritual things like there is of objects of natural science. Therefore, it seems to me to read what you're interested in and to leave aside which says nothing to you is the right way. For spiritual learning it's essential to develop a feeling of what's the personal own way. Spiritual systems only should have a helping function, and not be taken as scientific knowledge. So my opinion is: You have your radar and it's good to follow it. To be very literate in spiritual things makes not a spiritual fulfilled life. And...you can't read it all anyway!

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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betson
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Re: the soul's elation
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2006 at 9:26am
 
Thank you very much.  While reading your responses I got those chakra responses again. Your thoughts are very important to me.--- Tomorrow's my birthday and your words are a wonderful gift!
bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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augoeideian
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Re: the soul's elation
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2006 at 12:01pm
 
Happy Birthday for tomorrow Betson - all the best!!
i have posted Gemini under star signs for your interest.

Have a wonderful year  Smiley
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