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Invitation to a BST (Read 4886 times)
Petrus
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Invitation to a BST
May 30th, 2006 at 12:59pm
 
Hey everyone,
This is an experience I had a few months back.  For the skeptics, although I'm not going to categorically claim this was genuine, the main person that I saw during this experience was only identified *after* the experience via a photograph from Google.  I also had not been aware that the person in question had died until I found out after the experience, also.

I was initially having a dream in which I was trying to find the main Amway website.  When I found it, on the page there was what initially looked like a video feed looking into a particular room.  I then had the impression of this "zooming in" or me being pulled into it, and suddenly I found myself standing in what seemed like an old bar or saloon.  At this point, the dream became lucid,  (I realised I was dreaming) and quite a lot more vivid.  I can remember running my fingers over the bar top in front of me and being able to feel the grain of the wood.

There was an old man standing behind the bar in front of me, and I asked him where I was.

"This is one of the happy places of your imagination," was the reply.  At that response, I said aloud that I doubted anything in my imagination would ordinarily be quite so visibly American architecturally, since we didn't have anything very much like that near where I live.  (I'm Australian)

What I mean by that though is that everywhere I looked, there was a deep salmon/reddish coloured wood.  The bar itself was made of it, and there were a large number of chairs and tables around the room which appeared to be made of it at all.  The only mental point of reference I had for it was some of the ads I'd seen on television for a few different brands of American whiskey; the look of the distilleries shown in them was similar.

After looking around the bar for a few seconds, my host showed me a pair of large glass sliding doors at the back of the bar room.

We went through, and it turned out that the bar was built on a small, very lush island.  My host led me down to a beach not far from the bar room.  The colour saturation with all of it was very deep...deeper than that in waking reality.  I can also remember feeling sand underfoot, and the spiky leaves of some of the bushes before the grass gave way to the sand.

We went into the water which was warm and clear, although I got the impression that the boundaries of that particular construct didn't extend very far out from the beach itself; enough to be able to get in the water, but not much more.

After a few minutes my host seemed impatient, got out of the water and walked back up towards the bar room.  I got out of the water as well, and attempted to follow him to see where he was going. 

When I caught up with him, there was a picnic blanket laid out on some grass outside the bar room, with a small number of people sitting around eating.  Again, the impression here was very vivid; I can remember the taste and texture of a block of cheese, and having to spit out some seeds from a grape I ate.

After having eaten, I noticed my host had disappeared again, but standing in front of me was a woman who appeared to be in her mid to late 30s, who I assumed from her words was his daughter.

She initially said that her father had died last night, (given what I found out later about my host's identity, I wasn't sure why she said last night) but that he had wanted to inspire someone before he left.  She then asked me if he had succeeded in doing so.  I answered her that I believed he had been successful.

I woke up soon after, and on looking at some photos of people associated with Amway, was somewhat shocked to find this image of Jay Van Andel, one of the co-founders of the business.  The man I first saw in the bar room and who showed me around the island was identical to this image, barring some slight fuzziness.  I wasn't able to verify the appearance of his daughter, as I can't find photos of his children, but I was able to confirm that he did have two daughters.

The only thing I've been unable to understand was his daughter saying that he had died "last night," since Google referenced an article saying he had died in 2004, and I had this experience last month.  (late April)

My father has been involved in Amway since around 1992, and it was one of the main things which led to my parents' divorce and the disintegration of my immediate family.  The interpretation which I have drawn from this experience is that Mr. Van Andel's spirit wished to express to me that despite my own traumatic experience with Amway, his initial vision for the business had been very different; and that the BST he had shown me was essentially a realisation of said vision in the Afterlife, in the same way as the Hollow Heavens are for Christian groups.  I am also inclined to believe that the experience was given to me in order to enable me to feel some closure.

I also want to add that this experience, in conjunction with a few others I've had since discovering this site around two years ago, has largely succeeded in removing doubt I have had about continued spiritual existence after death.  Bruce and some others have done and are doing some very positive and beneficial work with this site, which has been of enormous assistance to my own development, and I am grateful.
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Lucy
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #1 - May 30th, 2006 at 2:21pm
 
Hi Petrus nice to hear from you again

Here's the names of the kids

http://www.vai.org/vai/legacy.asp

Hey he had a place in the Carribean
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2004w49/msg00180.htm

or were you here?
http://www.islandsun.com/archives/2001-April/270401/local2-v4i56.html

Which daughter?
Barb (Rick) Van Andel-Gaby?
http://www.heritage.org/About/Departments/trustees.cfm
She's close to the bottom of the page
(these people are a little too conservative for me but at least they show pics)

darn I can only find Nan as a kid
http://www.devosforgovernor.com/ForTheMedia/

this is too much fun (and takes to much time!)

I enjoyed hearing about the vivid images and look forward to having an experience like that
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Petrus
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #2 - May 30th, 2006 at 9:48pm
 
Hi Lucy,
I think it could have been Barb, yes!  The nose is very similar...and I also remember her having blonde/light hair, which it looks as though she could have in that pic.

Given the descriptions of places mentioned in those links, I am still inclined to believe that it was a construct/"Hollow Heaven" which Mr. Van Andel had put together himself...either he alone or he and his kids...which was a composite of a number of places he'd been/owned during his lifetime.  I actually got the impression that it was a place that Barb and his other children went when they slept, although they possibly weren't/aren't consciously aware of such. 

Given that, if Bruce is reading...Can I ask...would a custom construct (but where the creator of it is consciously aware of it being a construct) be categorised as part of F27, as opposed to F25? 

Another reason why I ask is because I actually had another such dream once in which my two brothers and I were involved in building ourselves a multi-storey house.  The stairs hadn't been put in, so I can remember flying from one storey to the next, and hearing my younger brother tell me that he was still nervous about trying that. Wink

Thanks for the links/research though, Lucy!
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LaughingRain
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #3 - May 31st, 2006 at 3:22am
 
hi there...I've seen people in dreams and later saw their photographs, sometimes years later and I know by my feeling of shock and recognition that it is them.  the more that this happens Petrus, the more you can accept that it might happen again and so u begin to take dreams and obes more seriously for their messages. was thinking about the time issue..the different dimensions of time..last night means to you 2002; four years ago, but to Jay, he might be thinking it was only last night that I have died, and I would like to inspire somebody. hugs, alysia
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Touching Souls
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #4 - May 31st, 2006 at 4:06am
 
What an incredible experience Petrus. Thank you so much for relating it to us.

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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betson
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #5 - May 31st, 2006 at 10:05am
 
That's fascinating, Petrus!
You're off on a wonderful journey!
Your vision is so accurately tuned to the fellow, maybe the tone of wood was his favorite choice. I once did a retrieval from a US bar in a desert and the wood was ochre/yellow/pine, so not all US bars are the same tone.  Your sense he was American may have come from other knowing--?
In the other dream, have you tried other interpretations, such as symbolic/prophetic, where the house is, for example, family, and you have yet to get to the upper layers, to say raise  children? If you're not yet married the steps you have to take but are not yet in place could be your and your brothers' future wives--?

bets
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george stone
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #6 - May 31st, 2006 at 12:52pm
 
Ive had dreams like these.I was sitting around with some other men that I knew in the dream,but when I woke up,I did not know tham.I remember drinking what I thought was grape juice,and could feel how nice and cold it was.I just could not get enough of it.Another time I was having pea soup.I had 2 helpings,and when i woke up,I could still taste it.So real.could this be a bst dream?
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Lucy
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #7 - May 31st, 2006 at 1:37pm
 
I find it so intriguing that you ended up on a lush island. Did you know he had a place in the Caribbean? Or that his daughter ran this Peter Island thing?

http://www.peterisland.com/

(Maybe if we all pool our money we could rent one of the villas for a day or two) Grin

I looked for salmon-colored wood but no luck. I imagine if you create a BST that you can furnish it as you like. The colors are always so vivid in pics of the Caribbean. But then I always think "Oz" looks colorful in pics. They do seem to have bars and also rooms almost on the water.

I think your interpretation is a good one. There certainly is a bit of controvery over the company. They certainly made alot of money and I wonder how that jibes with the espoused values. Did he mean for us all to be able to afford a $1000/night place in the Caribbean? Maybe he did intend to help people but the monetary success of the venture took over. Or maybe we all get to someday examine the discrepencies between what we set out to do and what we actually accomplished.

In the meantime, I wouldn't mind a little lucid dreaming of the beaches in those pictures.
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Petrus
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Re: Invitation to a BST
Reply #8 - Jun 1st, 2006 at 1:12am
 
Hi everyone,

>I find it so intriguing that you ended up on a
>lush island. Did you know he had a place in the
>Caribbean? Or that his daughter ran this Peter
>Island thing?

I didn't know that he himself owned an island, no.  Beach hopping admittedly was one of the things Amway people talked about a lot as something they liked, however.

>In the meantime, I wouldn't mind a little lucid
>dreaming of the beaches in those pictures.

Well, I get the feeling that there are no shortage of beach resorts in the BSTs! *grin*  It's interesting...aside from the Park, Mr. Van Andel's construct was the first really nice place I've come across.

>Another time I was having pea soup.I had 2
>helpings,and when i woke up,I could still
>taste it.So real.could this be a bst dream?

It's possible...I could certainly imagine an interpretation of heaven that included pea and ham soup! *grin*

>Did he mean for us all to be able to afford a
>$1000/night place in the Caribbean?

I got the distinct impression that he would have liked that, yes.  More specifically, a place in the Caribbean was I think something he considered important, and therefore altruism from his perspective was perhaps defined as wanting other people to be able to have that, since he himself considered it important.

I remember a Buddhist story I heard once.  The story goes that a few hundred years ago, at a particular temple there was a certain acolyte who was having enormous difficulty progressing.  The master of the temple tried everything he could think of, but still the man in question was unable to progress. 

Then one day, after having had another idea, the master took the man out into the mountains surrounding the temple.  After walking for a bit, he pointed to a palace on another mountain away from the temple.

"Do you see that palace on the mountain over there?" He asked the man, who said yes.

"I'm giving it to you," the master said to the man, handing him the key.  According to the story, on hearing this the man immediately became enlightened.

The moral of the story was that having material wealth is simply another form of experience, and one which, if it's the only form you haven't had, is just as important in order to complete your range of experience.

Amway's people typically aren't able to see their own goals/definition of happiness from that type of larger perspective in my experience, but that doesn't make their perspective any less important, I don't think.  As Bruce and I'm sure a number of other people can attest, the BSTs actually serve a very important purpose; by allowing people to completely exhaust their desire for reward (or punishment, as the case may be) it frees them to continue their development by persuing other things.
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