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Evolution and Souls (Read 3335 times)
sven_und_jen
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Evolution and Souls
May 28th, 2006 at 10:58pm
 
I was thinking recently..

if evolution is correct, at one point we were not as conscious about ourselves as we are now. At one point, "we" were like the simpler forms of life seen around us. Thus.. does all life have souls? Or did a soul suddenly emerge with the birth of self-consciousness?

-Sven
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MarD
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #1 - May 29th, 2006 at 1:32am
 
Thats a great question Sven.  I used to think that well humans are the only ones with souls cause, well just cause. I always thought animals and other living forms acted purely on instinct. but from whos point of view? thats what led me to believe maybe everything has a soul, in some form or other. thats just what i believe.
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Cosmic_Ambitions
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #2 - May 29th, 2006 at 4:45am
 
The way that I've looked at it is that everything is animated by some form of energy or another, or is made up in essence by energy/dense energy... Souls/God/Everything is/are energy. So, everything by it's very nature is "soulish", so to speak. Physical reality is akin to a superimposed energetically dense reality conducted via the spirit world. I wonder sometimes where the energy of non-animated forms of life, such as rocks go upon breaking away from their physical bonds... I would like to say sand... then the sand collects back into (solid) rocks again. Just as when the physical body decomposes and turns into nutrients for other forms of life. However the "essence/soul" of both animated and non-animated forms of life must linger onward in other realms/dimensions of existence beings they are all varying forms of energy displayed out into physical forms as dense energy. Like when a radiowave is sent out into space and continues broadcasting information ad infinitum; or when you look up at the night sky and the light that you see from the stars is roughly millions/billions of years old  before it reaches the observers eye. For all we know, by the time the light of stars reaches our eyes, it's immediate physical source could very well be changed/physically terminated.  I tend to feel that everything that is enacted out in this physical realm of ours is being broadcasted out into the infinty of space/cosmos/various other dimensions, beings everything is energy, everything is neither created nor destroyed, only changed/transformed... it is... all is -- eternally evolving/changing. So, in my eyes everything has a form of a soul. It's our human terms/definitions that put the limitations on what a  soul is/means to him/her/it...

PUL,
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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #3 - May 29th, 2006 at 2:56pm
 
HI Sven-

There seems to be some kind of difference between the physical, trasitory, part of us and the part that accumulates experiences. While most people like to lump the two together, my personal; view is that they are two different, and locally independent, manifestations of a more remote single cause that come in and out of phase, dependeing upon what stage of existence we enjoy.

One way to look at this is that the world is more or less spewed out of an initial beginning as a matrix of potentialities that occur in an undefined space as unordered options, existing between episodic moments in which everything presents itself and interacts, extending the nature of the space. Astro-Physics looks at this as a "Multiple Mini-Bang Model" instead of a single Big Bang.

The persuasive appearance of the physical world may not be as we initially presume it to be.  There are several viewpoints from which purely abstract potentialities appear to present the space of the everyday world, worldlines that span bounding moments of definition. The awareness that we call 'Me" (Tibetans called it the Knower) seems to attach to one of these worldlines in a manner that projects it into the sensible world as a living phenomenon.

This kind of thinking suggests that although the world appears solid, more or less eternal, abstract and material in nature, the fact is that we are simply assembling ideas together in such a way as to bring these phenomena into existence. That is, the ideas of reality cannot be discerned from a material distribution of states, since both present themselves by their properties, and our sensory system can see no deeper than the properties of the elements of the world with which we interact.

This kind of model is often called a multiply aspected theory, since it defines things in more than one way. It is also an idealism, since the "stuff" of the world reduces, ultimately, to what the Hindus decribe as "dreams flitting through the mind of God".  In this kind of model, the individual is a personality fragment of God projected into the world of images or "maya" to interpret it. Thus, everything is ultimately one with God. To ask about it as if it were an independent phenomonon is simply the wrong question, like, "Where do elephants prefer to fly?"  While we could speculate on airlines and zoological gardens, or jungles and plains, there is really no useful answer because the question carries implicit assumptions that are untrue.

One of the sayings that comes out of this kind of thought is "God dwells within you, as you."

dave
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sven_und_jen
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #4 - May 30th, 2006 at 2:00am
 
Insightful posts everyone, thanks! Dave, I really like that last quote you gave. I have thought of such a concept previously.

Which reminds me, it is very difficult to answer a question like "Do you believe in God?" I used to say no, because I thought I was an atheist. Then, after exploring this site, and many others in the same vein (such as Hinduism and so forth) I thought, wait, I do believe in God, but not in the manner that the questioner probably thought.

-Sven
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Cosmic_Ambitions
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #5 - May 30th, 2006 at 2:11am
 
Great post Dave!

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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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sven_und_jen
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #6 - May 30th, 2006 at 5:25pm
 
Actually, I just remembered a Hindu belief that depending on one's karma, one ascends or descends the "ladder of consciousness".

I also found this passage from "Om Yoga: Its Theory and Practice" Chapter 1, section "Evolutionary creation"

Quote:
To enable the spirits to enter into this process, God breathes forth His own Self as the Power from which is manifested all the realms of relative existence, from the most subtle worlds of nearly-perfected beings to the most objective worlds of atomic matter. They can then enter into relative existence by taking on coverings, or “bodies,” of varying grades and patterns of vibratory energies. They descend into this material world and begin working their way up the ladder of ever-evolving forms. Beginning with forms whose scope of consciousness is vastly less than theirs, they work their way upward, entering into higher and higher levels of awareness until they can surpass their original breadth of consciousness and begin to partake of a life of awareness much beyond their own.

In the intervals between embodiments the spirit spends time in the astral regions where awakening and growth also take place. (This is best explained in the forty-third chapter of Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramhansa Yogananda.) Upward and upward they evolve until their capacity for awareness is developed to such a perfect state that they can experience and participate in God’s all-embracing Consciousness, thenceforth to live in His infinity.

As Shakespeare wrote, “all the world’s a stage” with the individual spirits wearing their costumes and playing their parts. Just as actors begin with small parts and progress to bigger roles by demonstrating their skill in those smaller parts, so also do the spirits advance to higher and more complex forms of existence and consciousness, at last returning home to God.
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #7 - May 30th, 2006 at 8:29pm
 
Nice quotation.  -  I believe that early Egyptian belief also followed this line of thought.

d
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Cosmic_Ambitions
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Re: Evolution and Souls
Reply #8 - May 31st, 2006 at 2:50am
 
Great quote Sven... I think they're on to something.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions
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Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed?~Antonio Porchia&&Before enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment-chop wood, carry water.~Zen Buddhist Proverb&&And remember, no matter where you go, there you are.~Confucius
 
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