I got to wondering about Bruce's statement regarding OBEs and NDEs...

Bruce wrote (with regards to a thread that I had started under "NDEs vs. Beliefs"):

"Sounds like a pretty standard OOB type experience more than a near death.  But I guess since we go out of body at death there really isn't much difference except the return to the body with an OBE."

I was wondering about this... and from what I can surmise... it seems to me that "The Planning Center" must have something to do with the "spiritual programs" that are run depending on the circumstances that induce OBEs & NDEs... For instance, if the body is just practicing meditation and going out of body, the program that is encoded for that specific set of actions will induce an out of body experience containing elements as commonly described by people who go out of body... However, upon having a NDE the program that is encoded for that specific set of circumstance will induce experiences that involve more direct guidance and ushering in so to speak of said individual/s into specified/appropriate focus levels... It seems to me that OBE are more open ended with regards to free travel, than NDEs... Whereby, with NDE one is "almost always" guided through the spiritual experience, and these experiences are often times more personal and intense.

Thoughts?

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hey Elysiumfire, great post. Good to see someone else pondering the same ideas with regards to this question. I agree with all of your ideas. It seems a lot more reasonable to me.

With regards to your following question:

"My concern, therefore, asks how can the oobe afford us knowledge of the higher realms beyond that of astral limitation? What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts on this issue are always evolving/changing based on new information/experiences that I periodically gather. However, for now, I feel as though only portions of these higher realms are observable via OBE/astral travel... I know that Bruce has had some amazing experiences with some of the focus levels that exist in astral form. I also know that there are a lot of levels that are unattainable unless the frequency/vibration of one's "soul/essence" is on par with that particular level of vibration pertaining to that particular level. I know that I have heard NDE reports whereby the experiencer described how they had to voluntarily rescind from "said level" because they felt as though they were not "prepared vibrationally" for the overwhelming joyousness/PUL that that level contained/permeated... It was as if their soul was not spiritually evolved enough via experiences within some of the lower vibrational levels/realms to take on the "PUL atmosphere" of that particular level. It's not as if they were "denied" that level, but more along the lines, they knew that they were not spiritually evolved enough/ready enough for that particular level at that specific point in "time". This goes to say that I believe that our souls may very well vibrate at different levels with respect to the situation ecompassing that soul's departure from the physical body... (i.e. NDE vs. OBE. vs. "DE"). To me it seems as though the reality that we find ourselves in is a pretty "automated" system. Almost akin to say an automated change sorter. You put in a handful of change, and the machine sorts out the coins based on size. You have a NDE, OBE, DE... and the cosmos sorts out souls based on vibrational levels. I believe that a NDE, OBE, DE all pertain to different vibrational levels. But, that's just my opinion so far based on what I've gathered. (My thoughts/ideas are always willing/apt to change.)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. Thanks for your thoughts regarding my question. You provided me with a lot of useful information.

Hi Recoverer,

I quite agree, NDEs are usually one off experiences, but it has occurred to some experients on more than one occassion, and it is these reported NDEs that offer up some interesting clues as to what is going on - mechanistically-wise that is.

Again, I agree. The NDE is more than a deeply profound personal (and private) experience, it is a message to mankind. Its occurrence, and the reports from the experients of their correspondence with other beings they encounter, are providing us all with the necessary communication that will help each of us individually to make a conscious change.

The thought that considers the NDE as the progenitor of religion is gathering pace. It would not seem remarkable if it was discovered that the NDE has been occurring to a percentage of people since we first walked upon the surface of the planet. However, the earliest religion was probably not a dogmatic or doctrinated one, but followed very much the teachings that Jesus and other exceptional teachers before and after Him would later espouse. Unfortunately, this religion became warped and twisted and institutionalised through power-grabs and control seekers, and remains very much today in similar hands and minds. Their grip, however, is slipping, and as more and more people turn away from the public institution that religion has become, and search for the 'true' alternative, its grip will loosen even more.

The principle message we obtain from the NDE is 'we reap what we sow', this too, is what Jesus taught at His most profoundest. No amount of ignorance will protect us from that principle. How we act and correspond with others in this physical life will determine the quality of the post-mortem realm we (each of us individually) will be able to attune to. The 'life review' we all undergo at death is I feel part of the purge of 'ego'. To rid it of psychological and habitual issues of impedance, that would deny us entry into the better realms. Even so, it rests upon us. God (regardless of whatever you hold God to be) does not judge, does not condemn, nor condones, but loves each and everyone of us. The judge that judges us most harshly in the presence of 'Unconditional Love' is our Self. We have to forgive ourselves of the harm and suffering we cause others - no matter the excuse why we caused it, knowingly or unknowingly.
It is not as easy as it sounds. During the self-judgement we are experiencing the harm and suffering as from the viewpoint of the victim of our actions, but not only them, but also how what we caused rippled out into a wider sphere harming and hurting those whom depended upon the victim of our actions. This teaches us about 'interconnection'. The life review is by many accounts a oscillation of both harrowing and extremley unpleasant perceptions and of good ones, too. Can we forgive ourselves in these circumstances? Those in the lower frequency realms are 'legion', and could not get past the life review intact. They could not let go of their impedances, and thus, by natural effect, placed themselves in the lower regions.
We can take comfort from the fact that most people will not be exceptional in either their positive or negative effect upon others. The combined unit of family, friends and loved-ones, helps to keep us on the straight and narrow, thus our life reviews should not be overly demonstrative in showing to us our personal evils.

Of course, in stating it as I have, I could not in my wildest dreams intimate to you or anyone the profoundness of the experience, not even experients of the NDE can do that. Yet, something so affective, so life-changing, must not be dismissed out-of-hand as a mere hallucination or some pharmacological effect upon the body. There is no medical basis for the NDE's occurrence.

The oobe, to my mind, pales in comparison to the NDE, it is simply one of the elements of it. Even so, it does, like the NDE, impute quite a lot. Consciousness, for one thing, is projectible beyond the physical body and brain, along with memory - the box in which the virtual-self resides. This intimates that neither consciousness or memory are products of the brain as current traditional science (gripped in the fist of materialism) states.

There is no doubt that a shift in global consciousness is in the making. It is piling itself up on the opposite pan of the scales wherein the other sits materialism and ignorance. Eventually, the scales will tip, the forces are irresistable and incessant, the effect, inevitable. When it happens, we will be half-way out of the prison of indifference. Humanity will free itself, but not without a struggle from those unaffected by its embrace. The trick is not to struggle back.

Regards

Hi Recoverer,

" I swear. If it was so easy to not make the mistakes people make, they wouldn't make them so frequently."

Indeed! Yet they do - including myself. It's a 'learning' by default, not by some pre-planned conception. Surely, no-one purposefully makes mistakes? Do they?

"Certainly God and other beings of love and light realize this."

Yeah, I think they do. I am hoping Berserk realises it, too, when he reads my response to his criticism to me in the 'Off-Topic' section. Somehow, I can't envisage it. I think he will fall off his chair in some kind of apoplectic (apocalyptic?) fit. Oh well!

Regards