I agree, Doc,
especially with what you brought out in the 2nd paragraph. We are here to love.  So it's not only that we're gathering learning, but we have to give love, a positive energy/emotion to add to this morass.
Humans are capable of loving in more complicated situations, in spite of various flaws or blockages. So if we came and were a rapist, maybe that is the only role that gives us credibility to some souls we love.(  I don't mean the victim! Maybe the rapist's family needs to see a rapist's life up close. ) and want to help. Ever watch the TV reality show "Dog, the Bounty Hunter"?  He has compassion for the lawbreakers he must deal with. They experience his love (usually). Would he have as much impact on their lives if he were a traffic officer or even a priest?
Earth School is dirty sometimes.
bets

  Good point John, attachment, though it's not the whole of it in my beliefs.

Hi Dave,


I don't think of you as arrogant, in fact I think were we not on opposite coasts, I might have tried a past life regression or hypnosis with you.  Or at least had some good discussions.

To take this thread to the next level, let us imagine, if you will the moment we shed our earthly body.  Dave suggests that being exposed to the light/love, we will feel so unworthy that we will want to incarnate again to make amends.  I certainly can imagine this feeling.  However, most NDEs do not support an immediate return after being in the light.  

Now take some of the more advanced souls on this forum.  People who have experienced meditation, thought things through.  Bruce, Alyssia, Kathy, Marilyn, Kyo, Dave, etc.   Ok, now you may or may not be going through a life review.  You see where you came up short expressing love, where your flaws are.  However, from these discussions and your earth years, you also realize that living as a human being, you can't "get it right," per se or "wrong."  So then, if you carry your rational mind with you, you say "I feel unworthy in the face of all this PUL," however I understand now.  I tried my best under the circumstances.  The deck was stacked on the earth plane, however.  It is not an environment where it is easy to be a saint.  Deceit, lies selfishness are mixed in from our earliest experiences.  Eventually, we realize that love and unity are the way; I know this now."  We say all this to the light.

So Dave, imagine that conversation.  And they play back a scene where you could have been more loving but didn't act so.  Wah, wah.  Are you to tell me that your sharp insights into love and unity of all things won't be there with you?  If they are, you may simply be interested in expressing love and approaching unity with God.  You may state that as a fact.  And you may choose to help others on this new spiritual plane, without reincarnating.  

If you have no insight that can be brought with you, then yes there would be a powerful impetus toward giving it another shot.  The shame of seeing those acts of human imperfections may want to have us give it another go.  But with our enlightened attitude we can see that human imperfections are part of being human.  This is no sin or crime, and there is no shame in it.  

I like what John said about attachments to earthly things being a strong primal attraction of spirit back to incarnate.  This, I believe is talked of in the Tibetan book of the dead among other sources.

I also think that would was said about a part of the group soul sending a new probe out, instead of an old soul electively wiping his/her memory may be equally valid, and a different form of reincarnation.  In this way, the Dave entity, part of group soul number 45657 returns to the spiritual realm, and continues to evolve, but group soul number 45657 may send out another incarnation, a new one with the specific goal of resolving issues that the Dave entity didn't "get right."  If this new incarnation, let us call him Solomon does a past life regression, he may feel closely related to Dave MBS.  However, David's soul is continuing to evolve on the spiritual plane, where he is helping others.  

This is what I mean by many paths, and a flaw I believe in New Age thinking (of which I am a part).  In our discussions of good and evil with Kyo, it came out that there was no absolute good or evil, right or wrong.  The closest thing to right action came in acting cosmoethically and getting closer to God.  However, look for a moment at the notion of reincarnation;

the soul has a life review, feels it got things wrong, and wishes to make amends.  But wait a minute.  There is no right or wrong.  You can't have it both ways, guys.  If there is no right or wrong ultimately, you have the life review, have regrets, but say "I was exploring my dark side, but I'm sorry"  and you move on.  

Do I think, with all of this pontificating that I can determine with certainty whether most of us return to the Earth School again and again, or whether it is a new probe from our familiar disc, or whether past lives are, as Don suggests a mind-meld with other discarnate entities?  Of course not.  I won't know until my time comes, or unless I am gifted through grace to travel to the astral realms.  I did, however feel it important to go through these discussions, and question the belief system that most accept called reincarnation.


Matthew

Kathy,

Thanks for your insightful post (as usual).  I agree with everything you have said.  The notion of reincarnation is, I am sure in my gut different than a defined separate soul trying to "do it all again to get things right."  If you take this to a personal level, Kathy, imagine yourself during a type of life review.  You have these insights, you see the unity of things, and understand the concepts.  Would this understanding be stripped away from you and only your regrets at not living up to PUL all the time draw you, yourself back to the Earth School?  I think it unlikely.  If, as a unique entity who is really part of the greater whole (and knows she is), you decided to dive in again, for your own reasons, you would.  If you wanted to explore the spiritual realm, the notion of love and assistance there and unity, you would not reincarnate.

Swedenborg and many new age sources credit each person as having discarnate guides/helpers with them to help and assist them in the earth school.  With 4+ billion earth souls we would have perhaps 30 billion + discarnate entities who are in the spiritual realm.  Swedenborg claims most of these are former human beings, now become "angels," as he saw them.  My point in this thread is not to discredit reincarnation, but to make us think outside of the box.  Sometimes in being open minded, we take certain paradigms (that we will all come back to earth again and again) for granted.  

The evidence is there, as I cited that there are many paths to enlightenment/unity with God.  As Dave pointed out, few, but some achieve this while alive on the physical plane.  But what about us?  What of those on this board who may learn and feel deep spiritual concepts and truths?  The idea that I'm going to have to dive in as a new born babe again, currently does not at all suit my idea/concept of spiritual evolution.  So I look for the evidence, and I question, probe and meditate on life.  

While I am usually on the same page as most on this board, reincarnation is a sticking point with me.  I can more likely believe in a group soul to which I am a part, which upon my death may send out another Matthew type probe, with some of my spiritual makeup, but who would not be me.  My energy/vibrations would be on whatever spiritual plane I evolved into.  If the future Matthew probe then were to lie down on Dave's hypnosis couch, he might see me as a past life.  This is different than me, Matthew staying as a discrete energy unit and having my memory "washed," and then being reborn (living, perishing, and then having the old memories restored).  


Matthew

Hi Matthew- someone needed for me to eat a little crow, and it's always a beneficial diet.

Let me try to explain the sensation - although I can never express the intensity. All of us have loved ones, and we all know that they treasure and love certain things, of no importance here. I'll use the term "Mom" because that's a common loved one for most of us. 

Let's say that you decided to steal a cookie of two, despite being told that it would make Mom unhappy because it would damage your teeth etc. So you grab the loot and run off to a hiding place, and in the process you break the cookie jar - only too late to remember that it had been left to Mom by her Great Aunt Gussie whom she revered.  So you come out of hiding with crumbs on your face and find Mom sitting and looking at the broken cookie jar. In that instant you sense that she has unlimited and unconditional love for you, and that your actions are shabby, uncaring. All kinds of rationalizations run through your mind, "Can I deny it?" or "Can I just apologize and say it doesn't matter?" or "Can I find a different way to look at the situation?" and so on.  No intellectual ploy offers salvation because of the deep sense that what was intended to be an innocent act of disobedience has turned out to be a violation, a betrayal of Mom's love. The sensation is kind of like guilt, kind of like fear, kind of like confusion, but intensely regretful. So intensely regretful that you'd do anything to keep from hurting Mom ever again. So you disown that way of living, take up a better way and go back to the world.  We've all had this, or a similar, experience.

Now, take this family scene and imagine that instead of Mom, who is at least human and somewhat limited in love by human frailties,  you are in the presence of God, the Ultimate Essence of Love. While in this life we have the ability to think intellectually. Without a body and its brain to store multiple tasks, you think only with emotions.  There's no way out, it just feels really bad. It feels so bad that  the soul would do anything to make it stop. It isn't physical pain, it's a pain that cuts deeply into the essence of our being, at the root level where love is felt, and we feel it as a violation of everything tht we ever held valid, including our own existence.

Hippies taking LSD occasionally were able to reach this state without preparation, and invariably reported a "bum trip" of such magnitiude that many fled fom sanity in order to avoid the sensation of regret, self-loathing, and despair due to this or that violation. Because these are not cognitive feelings, and because these feelings are far deeper than cognitive and intellectual ratiocinations, there is no way to argue that "they aren't really important".  There is only the terrible sense of regret, failure, unlovability etc.

Working with entities that get stuck on other people, I've found that invariably they have only a single track "mind". It uses affective signs and signals to communicate about the immediate situation, instead of abstract symbolisms and external references that can include alternative interpretations. This makes it easy to work with them, because they only need to be put at ease so that they can again accept love, and then sent off to the light.

This single track one-pointed affective language of signs and signals appears to be the language of the spirit world. There is essentially no "thinking" in the cognitive sense, but there is feeling and responding in an emotional sense, through which we maintain an active and participatory presence. 

As an example, a woman regressed and described life as a refugee in WW II Italy, fleeing until she was caught and killed. Then she went to "stand in a long line of people who were waiting for something terrible that had to happen".  She later identified this as another war. There was no argument, it was simply a fact that this is where she had to be because this is where her identity was valid, and nowhere else. She felt it necessary to be here and to stay here because that's who she was. In the same way, our "thoughts" and feelings in the spirit world are "who we are", and we can't think up clever rationalizations to change anything. All we can do is to "BE our own response" as we adopt a superior lifestyle for next time.

This is quite difficult to explain, but I hope you got the gist of it.

The inability  to recall past lives is a decision made in this life. My 3 year old grand-daughter was playing and my wife asked her, "Where did you come from, Athena?" She said, "Out of Mommy's tummy." My wife continued, "And where did you come from before that?" Without missing a beat she replied, "Oh, I was a cook." (She's a dead ringer for her great-great-grandfather who was a merchant marine chef.) All kids seem clear on such matters,  but we talk them out of it by age 6. "Shut up, kid. That isn't real."

I have a "How-To" on my site if you want to play with this.  It's in the "things to read" pages. You'll find that all you have to do is to look inside and you'll find past lives.

Ugh - I still recall having that feeling of regret! And all I can do is to accept it, I screwed up and am now doing all that I can to live a better life, because anything else is not living.

dave

I understand Dave's point well, and I think there is much to what he says.  I still haven't gotten an answer to my question.  If we maintain our wisdom and experience, if Dave crosses over, let us say, couldn't he accept his flaws and shortcomings, and look into the light and say "I see my shortcomings as well as my successes, I now wish to learn more about love and unity."  And then not choose to go back to to the earth school.

Learning to love does not require wiping our memory.  Evolution occurs in many ways. 

I'd also be interested in Dave, Kathy and Alyssia's and anyone else's take on whether the actual entity reincarnates, or the newly incarnated earth form is not a different probe, so to speak of the same disc.

I do respect Dave and his views a heck of a lot, and I am just trying to make sense of things.

Dave, can you feel that inifinite regret, but realize the unity of all things, the end goal of samadhi, and choose to evolve on the spirtual planes?


Matthew

Thanks for the info, Cosmic, yes I have read NDEs quite similar.  People feel at peace in the light, and don't want to leave, according to the NDEs reported.  I believe that we pursue the spiritual realms for as long as suits us and then, we may choose to reincarnate or a disc member may, if it seems right, who incorporates some of our experience with him/her into the new incarnation.

This is not a simple issue, and I think, I'm going to try a past life regression at some point to satisfy my curiousity.  Probably with Dave's help.

M

Wow Chuckles! That was a great post...

Chuckles wrote:

"so forgiveness is what we do to get beyond karma ideas and guilt. my deceased family members all have come around asking for forgiveness of the slightest things..most of us know how to forgive if it's a family member. with forgiveness love is free to grow."

This is exactly what one of my family members did upon "coming back" from a NDE.

Chuckles wrote:

"from what I've observed nobody forces a life on anyone.its more like suggestions are passed around. seems to be things look really different on the other side, we get overconfident. it also looks like we are conducting an experiment in some ways.
a friend of mine told me he had a planning commission telling him it was too soon to dive into life. they adviced him against it. He said he didn't take their advice. he wanted to go back in right away. u can tell just by studying him he wishes he would have taken their advice."

This is exactly the way that I look at it Chuckles. If I try to look at it as being thrust back into the physical world against your will... this idea doesn't resonate with me. It's more of an "advised/suggested" thing than anything else. But, in the end, I do believe that we have a lot of control over this "incarnation" decision... be it subconsciously or consciously.

Chuckles wrote:

"once I went to see a future life thru the imagination. I was a deep sea diver/scientist living on a floating city."

I was wondering... "sometimes" while I'm lying in bed I will get images in my minds eye of some of the oddest things... For instance, last night while lying down with my eyes closed I got a 1st person image of a car driving down the center line of the road... And on another occasion I got an image of a white car parked in a parking spot by an apartment complex. Sometimes I will see brief flashes of people's faces that I have never seen before in my life. Do you know what these random images might be? (I know this is kind of off topic, but I had to ask because your post reminded me of it!)

Thanks,

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Thanks Katonya! LOL!

I never thought of those faces as being parts of my I/There disc. That's very interesting... I have to agree with you that "eyes are symbols of the soul vibration". You can "really" tell a lot about a person by looking at the eyes. (i.e. sincerity, honesty, caringness, or opposingly... insincerety, dishonesty, uncaringness.)

Thanks for your ideas about those images that I was seeing,

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. Maybe in some other form of yourself, your full legal name was "Alysia Chuckles Katonya"... Now that should get the "wheels" turning! LOL!

Hi everyone,

Hey Alysia, good points you make!  Chuckles!  I love it. 

I agree that on the higher frequencies time does not exist, so everything that has ever happened or will ever happen as we view it from time dimensions has already occurred.  I actually think that time and space may have evolved out of creation naturally.  That’s probably another thread, but I’ll mention that David Bohm years ago talked about this concept in which he thought that our idea of timeless laws governing the universe didn’t seem to hold up because time itself is part of the necessity that developed out of or from creation or the creative process.  For some reason this rings true for me in that I feel time and possibly space itself evolved naturally as lower vibrations evolved. 

Matthew,

Yes, I think you and I are on the same page regarding this.

Quote:


It doesn’t make sense to me for the same personality to incarnate again and again and on and on.  Yet there is still the question of soul evolution and the process of creation, so I ask does a personality merge with soul energy or does personality continue to evolve on its own?  Truthfully, I really don’t know.  My way of approaching this subject is to try to understand the creative and evolutionary processes and how the creative process and consciousness works.  One thing I know for certain is that nothing is ever separated.  I would say that we absolutely have to be continually connected to higher dimensions and the higher dimensions have more connectivity in consciousness than the lower ones.

Personally I think this subject is fascinating.  This is probably over simplifying, but the easiest way for me to understand and explain is to use this illustration: God (Creative Force) > Soul (Original Spark of Creative Force) > Soul Family (Sparks of Creative Soul Force or personalities of which I as Kathy exist along with all other personalities originating from Soul)

However, as I mentioned, I think the above really is an over-simplification because as creation progresses many, many more groups belonging to other groups according to vibration seem to have come about. (The whole creating new wholes process of creation.)  But for the purpose of understanding, this concept this works for me on a very basic level. 

Something I’ve always been curious about is the creative process that I think of as the process of the evolution of consciousness.  You might be interested in this somewhat lost hypothesis of morphogenetic fields that Rupert Sheldrake discusses in his book “A New Science of Life” in which he indicates that all systems are regulated by causative fields that serve as blueprints for form and behavior.  Essentially these fields reach across time and space to have a direct affect.  For example when one member of a species learns something new, the morphogenetic field in that species is changed, though the change may be very minimal.  However, if the new behavior is repeated enough, then its so-called “morphic resonance” has an affect on the entire species and in this way a new blueprint is created.  You may remember from several years ago the Hundredth Monkey Principle where when a group of monkeys learned new behavior, monkeys on other isolated islands also suddenly learned the same behavior without any possible means to have done so, except by what could be explained as morphic resonance.

This is similar to the way in which I think the creative process works.  Perhaps soul groups then are formed of those entities whose incarnational experiences and consciousness has evolved in a similar pattern of vibration.  However, the question that still arises for me is what happens to personality Kathy after leaving her physical body?  Is there some sort of merge with Soul?  Do we continue on as part of a soul group?  A lot has been said regarding this subject, however at this point I don’t think I have answers to these questions.  I’m still at the pondering stage.

I think it is possible that the blueprints for form and behavior are more like a revolving door in that consciousness can go round and round and round until sufficient change in evolution takes place to create the blueprint anew for the whole of mankind.  I had an interesting vision one time when I was thinking about this.  In the vision I went into a revolving door fully expecting to come out on the other side.  Instead there was no opening, the door just continued to revolve and I continued to walk in circles.  LOL Not that I don’t do that anyway sometimes.  In the vision the walls that I circled felt like polished marble and resembled a continual blue lined matrix picture of earth as viewed from outer space except I was looking at this picture of earth from the inside rather than seeing it from the outside.  This was a strange vision to say the least.  But what was impressive to me is that this picture was like a blueprint of negative space that was yet to be filled in or defined.

Dave’s experience that he described is what I think of as the transformation process that each of us goes through as we become more and more aware of our spirituality.  I wrote an article about this process that goes into the details of my thinking regarding this.  It will be posted on my website in a few weeks, but if anyone is interested I can email it to them now.  I hadn’t thought of this having to do with the subject of reincarnation previously as I have viewed it as an aspect of the healing process.  I might have to ponder this a bit.  It may or may not be another piece of the puzzle, especially in regards to our experience of the higher spiritual frequencies related to the physical.

K

I like relating on this thread. you are all so deep. I feel I can say anything I want and get away with it and never be driven up the river in my canoe.
Dave, u remind me of this funny tag I would never use, lol,

I know what Dave is saying about reincarnation and the guilt can bring us back here to set things aright. so I have something to write about today in hopes to further this discussion about what is identity, ego, personality, disc, unlimited self, higher self, all that holographic stuff from my current understanding of having viewed myself doing a nasty deed and being forgiven by coming back. its a new thread to start as I can shove out holographic words like nobody I know, besides Justin.
so hope to see some of you in another room. hugs, alysia

When a soul has transgressed on another in anticosmoethical action, eg. abuse, the 'karma' that results is really the *issue* that results. Even that is not entirely accurate, because the issue does not begin with the event, rather the event progresses the (evolution of the) issue, which is always within.

Can a soul in the afterlife, simply say, "ok I know better now, let's move on!" to an issue it is dealing with? (eg. was a rapist or abuser).

In the afterlife, in a life review, in matters of the evolutiological, it is pointless to deceive your guides, helpers and evolutionary orientor. Nor is it possible, but that is besides the point. The entire point is that all experiences and all karma, are *for yourself*.

In most cases, what is realistic and natural, the pattern that has been observed for most progressing souls, is that "moving on" must of course occur, but the true meaning of "moving on", is not merely to forgive oneself and to let go of the pain, but most importantly, because the soul now has valuable experience in this issue (of rape, abuse, etc), "moving on" to a new level of this issue, means to want to use one's experience and understanding to help others in these or related areas.

And what more powerful way, what more effective and cosmoethical way, than to do this in the intraphysical? To reincarnate physically to assist others most directly in these and all areas one is learning in? (in every single physical incarnation, there are many *dozens* of issues of different natures, to explore, balance, progress, interact meaningfully with others, help and love others, with; all of these underscore why every lifetime is so precious, and the tragedy that most individuals unwittingly waste most of their valuable lifetime away in so many ways).

Then what of the "eye for an eye", the experience of being raped or abused as a karmic retribution for being the rapist or abuser? Such a direction, be assured, is far from inevitable, necessary or even desired (by the guardians, guides, helpers, evolutionary orientors, by all higher beings, and most of all by God Her/Him/ThemSelf).

For the soul whom, as described earlier, has the readiness, understanding and compassion to "move on" to a higher, more compassionate, more productive and loving direction in this issue (ie. by wanting to reach out to, interact with, and help others in these and all areas of its experience/issues/expertise), then this is verily the most desired way to 'balance the karma', and indeed to 'evolve the karma' to a higher level.

Only for the less mature souls (we stress that this is a matter of *willingness* to learn, to love, to grow; not merely a matter of chronological age of the soul; thus the idea of 'young souls' or 'old souls', has no meaning to us or to God, in terms of spiritual evolution), perhaps those whose own folly and recalcitrance has made it impossible for them to understand (at the level of both heart and mind) the consequences of their anti-cosmoethical actions, then by their very own actions (karma is automatic, it is not judgemental), thoughts, emotions and energies, similar events (eg. of abuse) will be naturally attracted to them, in a future lifetime or existence.

This (the working of Karma) is certainly not punishment, but (in the eyes of the Universe) a natural expression of what the individual is asking for (by his own thosenes and intention), and (in the eyes of his guides, helpers and evolutionary orientor), an opportunity for learning and growth, an opportunity for "moving on" beyond past pain and folly, all of which is seen from their point of view with compassion, understanding and loving support.

It is thus of utmost importance that people begin to understand, the true nature of Karma, of (the purpose of) physical incarnation and reincarnation, and the deeply intimate relationship between clarification, assistantiality and evolution.

It is hoped that the human race will all make the decision to "move on", instead of repeating old habit patterns of suffering, fear and anti-cosmoethicality. To "move on" together, powerfully transforming (as a phoenix would) old issues of the past, into wonderful new (levels and forms of) strengths, beauty, joyful and loving exploration and creation, together.

Hi DocM,

May I add a few thoughts?

"...The common cognomen of this world among the misguided and superstitious is a 'vale of tears' from which we are to be redeemed by a certain arbitrary disposition of God and taken to Heaven--What a little circumscribe[d] straightend notion! Call the world if you Please "The Vale of Soul-making". Then you will find out the use of the world."
Letter to George and Georgiana Keats from John Keats (1795-1821)

I quite agree with Keats, this world is a 'vale of soul-making': But what is the soul?

(IMHO) Spirit is what we are made of, whereas the soul, is what spirit becomes through the process of living the physical life experience. If spirit is the book, the cover and the pages, then soul is the content of words (i.e., experiences) that tell the story. This is how I tend to view spirit and soul. I do not separate them except by this distinction. I do not consider spirit as one entity, and soul as another, somehow interconnectingly corresponding. There is no separation, no other distinction. There is only one consciousness...that of spirit...soul is the 'flavour' of spirit perceived through that spirit's consciousness.

Regarding reincarnation. It seems quite logical to suggest that soul is not what reincarnates, but spirit. Soul is the virtual self, arising out from the assimilation of the physical life experience as memory, and with each reincarnation, it is the soul of virtual self that changes.

Spiriit is like the bee sent out into the physical world, buzzing from flower to flower collecting life experiences, and returning laden with the pollen of those experiences (memory). Each life lived will sum to a total resonant frequency value, and will add to the overall resonance of spirit, enabling spirit to correspond to higher frequency vibrations.

However, some life experiences may cancel out each other, and no addition to spirit's overall frequency will occur.
Perhaps, this is how spirit is evolving? By living the physical life experience,  we oscillate between raising and lowering the overall resonant vibration, and that by the end of physical life, we are either adding, subtracting, or neither, to the overall resonance of spirit?

The experience of giving and receiving altruistic 'love' raises the resonance, whereas the giving and receiving of hate lowers it, making the physical life experience the determiner of spiritual evolution.
Reincarnation becomes, therefore, a mechanism of self-help towards self-improvement: it's like a cosmic game of 'snakes and ladders'.

After successive incarnations, spirit will hold within itself, memories of different 'souls of self', neither of which will have resonant correspondence with the others, each will not know or perceive of the others; only spirit, per se, will have access to the consciousness of each 'soul of self'. For as spirit has its 'being' in and of its Source, each 'soul of self' will have its 'being' in and of spirit. As above, so below.

Just some thoughts...

Regards All

Quote:


I sympathize with suffering humanity Deanna, but comes a day when you want to change the channel you're watching, because if you don't you just continue to suffer the same reruns. its by putting your mind on what is positive that brings alleviation from suffering. thats what I mean about changing the channel.
if u can find just one good thing to think about that brings cheer, you can set up a chain reaction by staying focused on the item which interests you the most. it would be what your intention is for coming here.

may u find the good and hold fast to it...hugs, alysia

Very few people realize how the law of mind and manifestation work.  Although there are books on the subject, self-help gurus and the like, you can only discover this through personal reflection and experimentation.

I think Alysia's comment could also be interpreted "if life serves you up a lemon, make lemonade!"  But seriously, if one focuses thought and intent on good, harmonious success and love, these things eventually manifest in the real world.  It sounds too simple, and I have posted on this previously.  It is not a matter of wish fulfillment or random wishes, dreams, but the impressing of clear intent while calm on the subconscious connecting to the universe (Jung's shared subconscious). 

So we are in fact given tools in the earth school to be happy and we either choose to use these tools and be good to each other, or we choose a more difficult path. 

M

Dear Kathy,

Thank you as well, for the Lights of your Love, and (speaking for all) also for your willingness in sharing them with everyone, everywhere.

Kathy,

That was very well said.   My problem with the notion of the Earth School of hard knocks is not knowing that we are here to conquer fear - to stop acting out of fear, but joy.  That part, the knowing makes sense.

But wipe my memory, put me in a society of fear, anger and violence and I start from scratch.  Why can I not learn in this life the lessons of conquering fear?  If I go back to school, as it were, why do I go back without my learning and experience from this lifetime?

One can say "if you go back with no memory, then if you act out of love you will really mean it, instead of intellectually knowing it."  However, there are too many variables present on Earth.  Too many energies interacting. 

This is the fundamental flaw in reincarnational thinking.  The idea that we come back again and again to "get it right," though our memories from prior attempts are gone (along with the knowledge we gained from them). 

I prefer to think that while a voluntary reincarnation may be possible to achieve an end, that it is not mandatory.  If my spirit can evolve here and now, it can continue to evolve without a body in a heaven or astral realm.  I may be of service to others there as well.

Still, Kathy's statement about conquering fear, not just avoiding it is so important.  For those of you who don't understand it, keep it in mind if you find yourself in a difficult or fearful situation.  Then it will have meaning.


Matthew

Hi Matthew,

As we each peregrinate through life we are continually drawn inward toward the discovery of an ultimate journey of contemplation deep within the center of our being known as our deepest spiritual longing.  All of our desires, even though seemingly unrelated lead us on our life path for the fulfillment of the purpose for which we were born.  This is why I see that it makes no difference whether we have conscious memory of knowing or not knowing we are here to dissolve fear.  Memory is built into us in the form of our deepest longings.

This spiritual longing originates from a deeper dimension within each of us and is connected to all of our personal desires that lead us to the choices we make throughout life.  It is this deep inner spiritual longing that gives us all the tools necessary to keep us on our chosen path and helps us to fulfill our life’s purpose.
 
The work of transformation is to move our awareness into the inner landscape of our being in a process of discovery.  We each are drawn to continually travel into this inner landscape of consciousness throughout life.  We have traversed the inner burrows that lead us into the darkness so that we may move further into the light at the end of the tunnel.  Through this process we enter into new gateways in which we ascertain more love, more understanding, greater integrity, enhanced personal power and purity of innocence within the consciousness of self.
 
As we each move through this lifelong process of transformation we may not be aware of our deepest spiritual longing, but it makes its way through the inner shadows of our being and emerges as the desires of our personality.  Our human needs and desires are the reflection of our deeply held spiritual longing within.  It is the creative impulse spurred by the affinity of consciousness seeking fulfillment within self, the creative pulse of life itself.

As the inner longing held within our consciousness traverses the landscape of physical manifestation, our personality yearnings can become distorted and out of alignment with our deeper spiritual longing that lays within our deeper purpose.  When this occurs, our physical being manifests feelings of frustration and dissatisfaction because of the lack of synchronicity between the personality desires and the deeper desire of our inner self to complete the spiritual work it came here to accomplish.

Desires that rest on the surface of consciousness is not what gives us the inner discord and feelings of meaninglessness in our life.  Rather, it is from the lack of fulfillment of the deeper spiritual longing that manifests the friction we feel.  Our personal endeavor, then, is to seek to find the root cause of conflict between the desires of personality and those of our spiritual longings to understand them so that we may transform them into a betterment of alignment with our life purpose.

By so doing we transform the consciousness of personality to where we are better equipped to settle into the deeper purposes we’ve set and let go of the desires of the personality that are in conflict and do not synchronize with those of our life task.  To accomplish this we must seek out to understand our genuine needs by allowing the feelings of those longings to surface so that these real needs can be fulfilled.

Sometimes it is difficult for us to allow our deepest longings to come forth into our consciousness.  Perhaps we have suppressed these needs for so long that we have forgotten what they were.  If so, then think back to when you were a child and remember what it was that you had always longed for.  Perhaps you longed to be a doctor, or a fireman, an painter, or a father.  Where is it in your life that these longings have been fulfilled?  In what ways have these longings been suppressed and therefore have gone unaccomplished?

What is it that you have always been interested in or have loved and yearned to do?  Perhaps it was an art class or math class in school that you had excelled in.  Whatever it is that surfaces ask yourself how you have not yet fulfilled these longings that have always existed deep inside of you.  What is it that you have always wanted to accomplish, yet see that the fruition of this has not yet been created in your life?

It’s possible that you may come up with several things that you have longed for.  Be sure to keep this list simple, yet very profound so that you can be sure you are allowing your deeper seeded longings to surface and become clear in your mind.  It is the deep inner longings that are connected to our life’s spiritual purpose.
 
Once you have clarity of your deepest yearnings begin to visualize ways in which these deeper needs may be fulfilled and take this clear visualization and seed it deeply into the center of your being.  From this inner place of knowledge and vision ask, how have the choices you have made served to fulfill or not fulfill your deepest longings?  What choices can you make that will serve to synchronize the desires of personality with your inner spiritual desire?  In what ways can you seek to fulfill the needs of your spiritual purpose?

As you continue to move into yourself and allow your consciousness to expand with the awareness of the totality of your being you will begin to experience an inner connection to the great unfolding plan of salvation as it continues to unfold over the face of the earth, intensifying and bringing with it greater understanding and clarification of the processes of the movement of consciousness.
 
We are an intricate piece within this plan or we would not be here upon the earth in this moment of time.  In this we are both the observer and the creator.  We are not simply a part of a pattern of the movement of consciousness we are the entire pattern itself.
 
And each of us has brought with us the inner consciousness of what we came here to accomplish and heal through the fulfillment of our life task and this is directly connected to the desires of the personality.  As we heal the distortions of self, so does the earth heal herself.  It is the continual process of our deeper intelligence and consciousness perpetually grasping itself into higher and higher levels of consciousness in which individualized consciousness contributes to and affectively changes the whole of consciousness.

In order to fulfill the inner spiritual longing in life, it becomes a matter of finding the parts of us where shadows and distortions have been created, where we have not yet met the needs our deepest desires and then synchronizing our personal desires with our original spiritual longing that rests deeply within the center of our being.  It is when our personal desires are clear and unblemished that they become the manifestation of our deeper held spiritual longing.

Essentially all of us have a deep yearning within, a longing to know who we are from the consciousness of our true inner self.  We all have the desire to allow the expression of our divine core to up well and go forth into our lives in every way possible.  That is to express the true love that is the ground of our being.  We all long to create from the divinity within us, however, what each of us chooses these creations to be are different for each of us as individuals.  While we each share in many of the same needs from a human perspective, the need for healing the patterns created on an individual basis varies.  Yet all of these become an interchange of feedback between individual consciousness and the whole of consciousness.

Let’s say, for example, that an individual doesn’t have an intimate relationship with another person, but wants one.  This person feels a longing and has a personal desire to meet a personal need.  Underneath this personal expression and need is a deeper spiritual longing for communion and affinity for spiritual relationship with the inner self.

It is by allowing the feeling of that longing to come into focus and by allowing the self to actually feel the pain of loneliness, despair and all the other feelings attached to it, and then by allowing these feelings to flow through the self, that we then are able to open our heart and create the space to allow what we desire to come to us.

As this individual allows the self to experience this darkness discovery is made.  The person learns how they have been preventing the creation of relationship and confusion is banished, so out of the darkness comes forth light and understanding.  Out of the emptiness arise the beginnings of perception of what this individual may need to do to be open to and create this relationship in their life.

What is oftentimes seen are the ways in which an individual prevents his or her self from creating and fulfilling their deepest longing.  Then, of course, when the relationship eventually comes into the individual’s life, this person is faced with more longings for communion that are deeper still, and once again is faced with this transforming spiritual work as the process of clearing and healing continues.  This is the process of all human transformation as I know it to be.

A very important part of synchronizing our personal desires with our spiritual longings in this transformation process is the continual fabrication of a superstructure of faith and hope.  Faith is what carries us step by step into and through the dark recesses of our inner burrows of life toward the hope for the fulfillment of our deepest longing.  It is the process of cause and effect, the process of motivational desire and fulfillment; it is riding the pulse of the creative wave deeply ingrained within the depths of our inner being.  This is the longing of life itself.  It does not require us to consciously remember where we have been or what we have done previously as Spirit; it only requires us to follow our deepest longings.  We each do this very naturally and in this way we are assured of salvation through this process of transformation, which is independent of memory retention.

Can we choose another avenue besides the earth plane?  The answer I believe is dependent upon the direct affinity with transformations that have become an understanding of consciousness at the higher vibrations of our being.  Or in other words a purpose is created within the mind of our Spiritual beingness that is longed for and sought out in the way consciousness is drawn to or has an affinity with in its understanding.

Perhaps Kyo and others may have more to add to my thoughts regarding this process and how we can better understand this.

Kathy

from what i have read from one of the first posts in this thread;

love is  now only a human emotion. so very much differently understood by as many men as there are on earth. i agree that love is one of  thebiggest components in creation's human side. but i dont think love is that much important for  many other different aspects of creation. even some know nothing about love& this fact changes nothing about reality, validity and their reason of being. the reason of all creation cant be only about love or learning or karma or whatever.in other words my creation could be something totally different from the reason of all creation. (dont think of human as the whole of the creation ) and without any idea about the reason of creation there is no point in trying to understand yours.. and besides, i wonder if it could be even possible.

Mairlyn said
' Love is the glue that holds all life together. I see LOVE as all there is.'
I'm not going to explain this variation on Mairlyn's thoughts very well but I'm trying:
We are here to love, and here is some 'proof':
Attempting to look at love, we could put it on an energy graph, shown like a 'voice-print.' Various emotions have been shown this way; apologies, I don't have those websites available right now.  Now think of the human voice. It's range of tones fall most fully within the same range as the love.  Compared to donkeys braying, songbirds trilling, elephants trumpeting, whales whistling, (even our DNA brothers the chimpanzees are shreiking) we emote levels of energy closest to the energies of love just by speaking. Our human form must be the most conducive for emoting /emiting love-like energies. And that doesn't even take into account PUL.

Hopefully when we speak we often speak with the caring and concern that brings a resonance to our tone that is even closer to the graphed vibrations of love. But there is room for and a need for our variations.  So if my voice emits (new analogy) violin tones, and yours emits cello tones, we add even more cohesiveness to the orchestration.
On this planet where matter and spirit are just learning to cooperate, our tonal range is what helps hold the chaos together and keeps it within the universal symphony. It's not a metaphor or an analogy; it's a vibrational reality.
We come here to bring love, because love is the glue that holds all life together.

Thanks everyone, for all your posts.
I may not have much to input but I am valuing all of the discussion and input from you all.
thanks for all the info

what i am saying is if this is indeed an earth school, dont let your fears kill your brains. if it is all about love for the beginning and for the end then it is what it is and the best one can expect and nobody including me , including you can change it. but if it is not all about love? who would graduate and leave all of you and all this mad fun behind?