Conversation Board - The islamic view of afterlife

muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #15 - May 5^th, 2006 at 12:09pm

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Hi Muslima

lol an Arabic language .. i blush furiously!!
May i ask what is your home language?

My homelanguage is yugoslavian,i am from Yugoslavia a country in eastern Europe.Where are you from? i guess an english speaking country

I find your description of Hell and Heaven very interesting,this is not how I imagine my self it.I do believe in Hell and Heaven of course,but im a bit strict when its about this..i only believe what is mentioned in Qur'an.You seem to have your own view about how it is.

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It is sorrowful that every nation has its evil element. And because one only hears and sees the badness of a nation it is assumed that the whole nation is like this.

The evilness is bigger then the goodness,thats why..prophet Muhammed s.a.v.s said that there will come a day when good will be seen as bad,weird and evil will be seen as normal,good.We are close to judgment day

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augoeideian

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #16 - May 7^th, 2006 at 7:14am

Hi Muslima

Yugoslavia .. right! i hope it is going well there?

i live Johannesburg, South Africa - a polyglot society; we are a diverse mixture of communities. At one end of my road there is a Mosque and at the other end is a Synagogue, with numerous traditional Churches around. i say there is a 3% South African Muslim community (within that 0.5% of the local black people are Muslim) & 12% from European descent. The remaining 85% are the indigenous people of Africa. My immediate roots go back to Northern Ireland.

How are you? Peace and love.

i spent yesterday re-reading the Qur'an (albeit a Penguin Classic paperback) and reading the life of the Prophet Muhammed.

I hope you do not mind me writing on this; something that you, most probably, know so well. Please correct me if i say something incorrect.

Prophet Muhammed sounded a person of The Spirit; fill of love and compassion for his people. Humble (mended his own clothes and would only sleep on leaves and branches). He refused to be worshipped as a God; as the Qur'an says - no person is higher than God. Muhammed (c570 - 632) from a young age would retire to a cave in the mountains for solitary prayer and meditation.

It was here, one night, in the year 610 that the Angel Gabriel came to him and said 'Recite' Muhammed replied 'What shall I recite?' Angel Gabriel said 'Recite in the name of your Lord, the Creator, who created man from clots of blood'.
'Recite! Your Lord is the Most Bountiful One, who by the pen has taught mankind things they did not know'. These words then seemed to be 'inscribed upon Muhammed's heart.

These words (Qur'an - The Recital) of Gabriel recited upon Muhammed's heart is Islam (submission) of the Muslim (one who submit's to God) people.

Muhammed came at a time when the Meccan people were worshipping false idols (known as Kaaba) and general were degenerate people. Initially Muhammed was persecuted by the Meccans, for his teachings and fled to Medina in 622, this emigration is called Hegira. The Islam calendar, called Hegira, starts from this year.
The Hegira calendar is based on the Lunar year (that is 11 days shorter than the Solar year).

Muhammed grew in strength with the Words of Gabriel upon his heart and re-entered Mecca with words of Wisdom for the people of that time.

Muhammed taught that there is only One God.

(This teaching resembles the teaching of Akhnaton in ancient Egypt)

Muhammed disclaimed power to perform miracles; insisting that he was merely a man but a man who was the messenger of God in delivering the Qur'an to the people.

Muhammed passed over in the year 632. Here arose a split of opinion as to who should become his successor. Abu Bakr (A friend of Muhammeds) of the Sunni branch of Islam became the new leader of Islam; as opposed to Ali (Muhammed's cousin) of the Shiite branch of Islam.

The Shiite's believed that Muhammed was followed by a succession of divinely chosen leaders called Imams. Shiites believed that the majority of Muslim's were wrong not recognising the Imams as their leaders. The Sunnis cannot accept this belief because they do not accord Muhammed such high status. As they do not accept the worshipping Christ as the son of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Muslima; i understand when you say you are a bit strict, as the Qur'an tells the Muslim people to be.
i must seem liberal about these matters in comparison.

This individual freedom that i have in speaking and discussing the Creation, would seem to be the difference in our belief. Would you agree Muslima?

Indeed as the Prophet Muhammed said; good will be seen as bad and bad as good.

Satan does want to rule the Earth (as he knows he's not going get anywhere in the Higher Realms)
but does this means that we must let him? Do we have to wait for Judgement Day? Can we not through and with the power of God (inside us) turn him out and expose him for what he is?
Earth is home to many, many loving God fearing people and i see no reason why we should not claim the Earth for God.

i look forward to hearing from you Muslima.

My love.

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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #17 - May 7^th, 2006 at 3:30pm

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Yugoslavia .. right! i hope it is going well there?

Yes,thanks to God everything is okey

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i live Johannesburg, South Africa - a polyglot society; we are a diverse mixture of communities. At one end of my road there is a Mosque and at the other end is a Synagogue, with numerous traditional Churches around. i say there is a 3% South African Muslim community (within that 0.5% of the local black people are Muslim) & 12% from European descent. The remaining 85% are the indigenous people of Africa. My immediate roots go back to Northern Ireland.

Nice to know,actually you may have heard of Sarajevo..it is called "the European Jerusalem" because at the same place,next to eachother we have a mosque,a catholic church,an orthodox church and a synagogue,and we all were good friends untill the war.Maybe your town should be "the African Jerusalem"

Have you heard about Ahmed Deedat? he was also from South Africa.A great islamic missionary,he also fought against the unfair threatments of the black people in S.Africa

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I hope you do not mind me writing on this; something that you, most probably, know so well. Please correct me if i say something incorrect.

You wrote everything perfect

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Muhammed taught that there is only One God.

(This teaching resembles the teaching of Akhnaton in ancient Egypt)

There are some muslims that believe that Akhnathon was a prophet too(because of his monotheism),we actually believe that every nation and people had their own prophets..but only the most important like Jesus,Moses,Muhammed were mentioned in Quran

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Satan does want to rule the Earth (as he knows he's not going get anywhere in the Higher Realms)
but does this means that we must let him? Do we have to wait for Judgement Day? Can we not through and with the power of God (inside us) turn him out and expose him for what he is?
Earth is home to many, many loving God fearing people and i see no reason why we should not claim the Earth for God.

I agree,but God knows already what is gonna happen he tells us that many antichrists will come and act like "messiah"(we seee this by all those new age prophets who claim have spiritual powers").

And no one believes that satan will succes,we all know that he tries and he fueels many people but at the end Jesus will kill him and the good will kill the evil.

You ask do we have to wait,i think yes..we are just normal humans and dont have that kind of "power and knowledge" to stop satan.We muslims believe that a man called Mehdi will come,he will be a man like Gandhi,Mandela,Luther King....and he will not be just a leader of a country but a leader of the world.The time untill his death is called "the golden age of earth"..i believe we need that kind of a ruler,cuz we humans follow the strongest..be it good or bad...

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #18 - May 7^th, 2006 at 4:04pm

HI Muslima - I recall Sarajevo from the Olympics - and then the more recent things, alas.

Regarding an ongoing exixtence and the existence of the djinns. In clinical regressions I've had numerous people want information, so I would "send" them to the "Library - you know, the place where all knowledge is kept" and eventually they'd report arrival. While there I asked many people to look around and tell me who else was there. It seems that not only are there spiritual beings who look like us, there are also many who have a sort of filmy embodiment made of light others who are merely floating minds, like souls without shells, and so on. There is quite a variety. In the same way, as these beings evolved it seemed as if they could approach closer to the center, a location identified with God.

At the other end of the scale, I've found people who went back only two or three lifetimes and reported being animals, big cats, deer, etc - I recall soaring as a hawk - and long prior to that, I recall being a worm. It seems that God creates in an orderly manner using available resources in a logical manner. No need for miracles, we can be evolved in a normal manner.

A book by Samuel Sagan MD, Entity Possession, mentions various spiritual lifeforms, and adds a couple of modes of existence that would be more appropriate to the djinns. He suggests that there are simple un-embodied "energies" (I'd prefer the term "life forces", but you et the idea) that drift around the world with too little organization to think, but with coherence and reactivity. They appear to us as nature spirits, essences of natural systems. For example, Tibetans speak of the spirit of Mount Kailash.

Next Sagan mentions life energies that are associated with specific forms and ways of existence. These are "thinking beings", although their "thoughts" are limited to crude emotional sequences. We find these attached to hosts from time to time, where they bring discomfort, because they act as parasites, siphoning off energy etc from the host. When we eject them we must fill the place with a divine white light, or the equivalent, or they simply return and continue making trouble. These would correspond pretty closely to the djinns, I think. These guys can also be manipulated by people, although that seems to be a bad business.

I've met both of these abstract "lifeforms" in my clinical work, although human spirits who are confused and distressed seem much more common. There seems to be good experiential support for the vast majority of the spiritual life that you describe. Interestingly, I occasionally meet a Muslim spirit, and however hostile they are initially, they seem universally willing to calm down when reminded, "Allahu akhbar."

Salaam-
d

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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #19 - May 8^th, 2006 at 7:24am

Quote:

HI Muslima - I recall Sarajevo from the Olympics - and then the more recent things, alas.

Regarding an ongoing exixtence and the existence of the djinns. In clinical regressions I've had numerous people want information, so I would "send" them to the "Library - you know, the place where all knowledge is kept" and eventually they'd report arrival. While there I asked many people to look around and tell me who else was there. It seems that not only are there spiritual beings who look like us, there are also many who have a sort of filmy embodiment made of light others who are merely floating minds, like souls without shells, and so on. There is quite a variety. In the same way, as these beings evolved it seemed as if they could approach closer to the center, a location identified with God.

At the other end of the scale, I've found people who went back only two or three lifetimes and reported being animals, big cats, deer, etc - I recall soaring as a hawk - and long prior to that, I recall being a worm. It seems that God creates in an orderly manner using available resources in a logical manner. No need for miracles, we can be evolved in a normal manner.

A book by Samuel Sagan MD, Entity Possession, mentions various spiritual lifeforms, and adds a couple of modes of existence that would be more appropriate to the djinns. He suggests that there are simple un-embodied "energies" (I'd prefer the term "life forces", but you et the idea) that drift around the world with too little organization to think, but with coherence and reactivity. They appear to us as nature spirits, essences of natural systems. For example, Tibetans speak of the spirit of Mount Kailash.

Next Sagan mentions life energies that are associated with specific forms and ways of existence. These are "thinking beings", although their "thoughts" are limited to crude emotional sequences. We find these attached to hosts from time to time, where they bring discomfort, because they act as parasites, siphoning off energy etc from the host. When we eject them we must fill the place with a divine white light, or the equivalent, or they simply return and continue making trouble. These would correspond pretty closely to the djinns, I think. These guys can also be manipulated by people, although that seems to be a bad business.

I've met both of these abstract "lifeforms" in my clinical work, although human spirits who are confused and distressed seem much more common. There seems to be good experiential support for the vast majority of the spiritual life that you describe. Interestingly, I occasionally meet a Muslim spirit, and however hostile they are initially, they seem universally willing to calm down when reminded, "Allahu akhbar."

Salaam-
d

Your clinical work? may i ask what kind of things you do? and do you often come in contact with the "souls"?

There are many jinns that are muslims,and as i mentioned above they live just like we.BUT we have to remember just like the majority of the humans follow God,same things with jinns who by majority follow satan.I know about a man from India who came in contact with a jinn muslim,he talked with the jinn for like over a year and the jinn told him all the "paranormal " secrets,and also the reincarnaton theory that is popular in India.The jinn had an old greek name and he said that the jinns fueel people like never before..so when you think you contact a soul its like 99% its a jinn playing with you.The man from india showed a picture of "aliens and UFO-s" that some people claim see,the jinn answered "Those on the pictures are jinns,no aliens"(we muslims do not deny that there may be aliens outside but thats what the jinn answered).The man wrote a book about it,and he is an orthodox muslim..so the book is serious,its not about new-age rubbish.The interesting is that the jinns usually dont care about us and dont have any need to contact us as often as they do but they are controlled by satan and a sihribaz(a man that has contact with the jinns,knowing it or maybe even not knowing it).A sihribaz are those kind of people that can look in the future,contact "dead people",look in the stars and such stuff..theese kind of people usually die a very hard death and God said "one of the few things God never will forgive are the work of the sihribaz".Unfortunetlly i had many experiences with them and even one of my close relatives was a sihribaz,and ended up in a dissaster

I also would like to say again that there are different kind of jinns..the ones that live just like we and the other ones that some of you described as "astral bodies"

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augoeideian

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #20 - May 8^th, 2006 at 7:52am

Hi Muslima, thanks for your reply. And Dave again interesting work and posting.

Muslima i enjoyed reading your reply written in such gentle spiritual way.

i like the idea of an 'African Jerusalem' all our nations should become Jerusalems!

i have not heard of Ahmed Deedat; i will ask my Muslim friends about him. Yes; during the terrible days of apartheid Muslim people were also considered as 3rd class citizens. Thankfully this is a thing of the past (although not to a distant past)
and SA is getting stronger; learning the lesson of tolerance.

i agree that every country is accorded its Prophet for that time; Messengers of God with a message for that nation. The world does need a strong Leader as you spoke about; Mehdi. Not a politician! This would be the era of the one thousand years of peace on Earth spoken about - truly an Golden Age.

Ah, i appreciate your humbleness and at the same time strength in your thoughts about satan. Yes; the time will come and we will have no doubt of who is the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

Keep well Muslima
Caryn

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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #21 - May 8^th, 2006 at 9:38am

Quote:

Hi Muslima, thanks for your reply. And Dave again interesting work and posting.

Muslima i enjoyed reading your reply written in such gentle spiritual way.

i like the idea of an 'African Jerusalem' all our nations should become Jerusalems!

i have not heard of Ahmed Deedat; i will ask my Muslim friends about him. Yes; during the terrible days of apartheid Muslim people were also considered as 3rd class citizens. Thankfully this is a thing of the past (although not to a distant past)
and SA is getting stronger; learning the lesson of tolerance.

i agree that every country is accorded its Prophet for that time; Messengers of God with a message for that nation. The world does need a strong Leader as you spoke about; Mehdi. Not a politician! This would be the era of the one thousand years of peace on Earth spoken about - truly an Golden Age.

Ah, i appreciate your humbleness and at the same time strength in your thoughts about satan. Yes; the time will come and we will have no doubt of who is the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

Keep well Muslima
Caryn

Thank you very much,its not so often that people react like you on the forums..its not so often that we are able to discuss without hurting eachother or argueeing about different things.We should follow the verse of Quran that tells "Oh people of the Book you believe in one lord,why dont you gather toghether instead of fighting" and no doubt there will come a time when every human will "wake up" .The Judgment Day is close,may God save our souls untill then

God bless you

Dalila

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #22 - May 8^th, 2006 at 3:28pm

An African Jerusalem? I love it!

To answer what I do, my work is technically called hypno-analysis, just like psychoanalysis except that it uses hypnosis (actually guided meditation) to go very deep very quickly. It's about 300 times faster than traditional psychoanalysis, which is what I initially learned. It turns out that a large percentage of patients have spiritual issues, and a few come in with entities of some type attached to them.

Most of the entities are simply confused souls who don't know what to do now that their bodies have dropped off, but I occasionally get one that thinks its a demon or something. My job with them is to restore awareness of God as loving and compassionate and send them off into the Light - the afterlife state in which they can continue growing. The Light is quite possible what Akhnaten encountered in meditation, that gave him the idea that the sun-disk was God.

Aside from that, I'm a social scientist with an interest in the topology of subjective states, like the spirit world. I'm not a spiritual intuitive, not a seer, nor predictor of the future, nor anything like that. I can't even walk on water - except in winter.

In the present world, I see the wheels turning toward a subtle but pervasive military takeover in the US and another war in the Middle East. I find it distressing that the children of Abraham have not as yet learned to play in the same sandbox without squabbling. On the other hand, the US is hardly the best example of a peace maker.

What is your background, Muslima? Are you a student or do you have a career?

dave

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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #23 - May 9^th, 2006 at 10:11am

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Most of the entities are simply confused souls who don't know what to do now that their bodies have dropped off, but I occasionally get one that thinks its a demon or something. My job with them is to restore awareness of God as loving and compassionate and send them off into the Light - the afterlife state in which they can continue growing. The Light is quite possible what Akhnaten encountered in meditation, that gave him the idea that the sun-disk was God.

Thank you for explaining,theese things are interesting but sometimes dangerous.I read once somewhere that when you start the spirit world draws you even more into that world,at the end they make a slave out of you.As i said before i have had theese kind of not so normal experiences.I respect your work and i dont think there is anything wrong with it if it helps people but i do not respect that some people use theese kind of things just because if their interes in theese things.Some things are just supposed to stay secret,God wanted it to be so and when human starts playing god it ends up in a bad way.

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In the present world, I see the wheels turning toward a subtle but pervasive military takeover in the US and another war in the Middle East. I find it distressing that the children of Abraham have not as yet learned to play in the same sandbox without squabbling. On the other hand, the US is hardly the best example of a peace maker.

You know,the beggining of the end for USA-superpower era is very very close.The average american may not know that,but the politicians do.Thats why we see theese kind of things now,they try to do something about it but it is not possible,the world is moving on but its not gonna be positive,China,the new super power according to many is even worse Roll Eyes

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What is your background, Muslima? Are you a student or do you have a career?

As i said before im from Yugoslavia(more correct ex-Yu).Im from Sarajevo but i live right now in Sweden where i study economy.With Gods will after im finished im gonna move back to Sarajevo

Peace be with you

Dalila

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augoeideian

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #24 - May 9^th, 2006 at 11:12am

Hi Dalila (what a lovely name) and Dave

We must have posted at the same time as i did not see your posting about 'jinns' above mine and hence of non reply to it .. lol

I agree with you; the spirit world will draw you in.
These 'up to no good' entities live in the astral world; but the term astral world is incorrect. It is because of our astral (spiritual) bodies that the term astral world come about. The astral world is in the realm of the constellations and planets and is sacred. The common term 'astral world' is in fact called the Workshop of Earth and is under the Moon. Here the tricksters and non-human entities, who are not for God live.

Yes; the spirit world will draw you in. This is why; if one starts to explore the spirit world one must have knowledge and be strong and most important - have a spiritual guide. The only guide that i trust is Christ. (i pray that He trusts in me).

Being drawn into the spiritual world is a natural occurance to me and i am sure the same with the others here; Dave and you Dalila. Otherwise i agree with you 100% - leave it alone.

Dave i do think, by reading your posts that you are doing helpful spiritual work.

What kind of experiences have you had Dalila when you talk about a Sihribaz? (er ..btw .. i look into the stars (astrology) Baghdad was the centre of the wisest of astrologers) but that is another discussion. What kind of experiences Dalila?

omg politics .. i say let the blind lead the blind.
hey what about south africa becoming the next superpower .. we like our public holidays and we great at parties and its too hot to fight ... Grin

But in truth there is World Karma and things will not be settled until it is worked out (btw like Alysia's post under my mom the Queen) Therefore, honest and open talk as people of the World is good.

Love and Peace.

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Lucy Super Member Offline Posts: 1158 C1	Re: The islamic view of afterlife Reply #25 - May 9^th, 2006 at 12:39pm Quote: You know,the beggining of the end for USA-superpower era is very very close.The average american may not know that,but the politicians do. What do you know that the average American doesn't know?
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Touching Souls

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #26 - May 9^th, 2006 at 1:38pm

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Some things are just supposed to stay secret,God wanted it to be so and when human starts playing god it ends up in a bad way.

I tend to disagree with you. We are all sparks of God. I don't believe that God wanted anything to be secret. If he did, then he would be a dictator and that he is not. He is a loving God and the more we know, the closer we can get to him, know him and become godly. I realize this is just a difference between your religion and my spirituality. We can agree to disagree. Wink

With Love,
Mairlyn Wink

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I AM THAT I AM -- WE ARE ALL ONE -- TOUCHING SOULS

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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #27 - May 9^th, 2006 at 3:17pm

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Hi Dalila (what a lovely name) and Dave

Hello and thanks for the compliment(my mom tells me its hebrew but, i dont know i havent been interested into researching it lol)

Quote:

I agree with you; the spirit world will draw you in.
These 'up to no good' entities live in the astral world; but the term astral world is incorrect. It is because of our astral (spiritual) bodies that the term astral world come about. The astral world is in the realm of the constellations and planets and is sacred. The common term 'astral world' is in fact called the Workshop of Earth and is under the Moon. Here the tricksters and non-human entities, who are not for God live.

I agree with you,and as i have understood the meaning of "astral world" it makes me think its something like Berzah in islam..but still not 100% same

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Yes; the spirit world will draw you in. This is why; if one starts to explore the spirit world one must have knowledge and be strong and most important - have a spiritual guide. The only guide that i trust is Christ. (i pray that He trusts in me).

Here i agree with you 100%,you have to have the strength,the knowledge and yes,most important a spiritual guide.I would call my guide God Almighty,not Jesus,Muhammed,Buddha..according to me the first two mentioned(Muhammed and Jesus) are two men that God chose out to tell the world his message so that we could understand it,without God they are nothing..both Muhammed and Jesus(may God bless them).Of course i realize this is our islamic view and i respect the christian view of trinity and son of God theory

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What kind of experiences have you had Dalila when you talk about a Sihribaz? (er ..btw .. i look into the stars (astrology) Baghdad was the centre of the wisest of astrologers) but that is another discussion. What kind of experiences Dalila?

My experience is usual in Yugoslavia,both among christians and muslims,specially among younger people.

I grew up in a family where we did not believe in theese things, so when i was 18,and did not know a lot about islam,i went to an "imam" just out of curiosity, and asked him how to solve a problem that i had.He directly said "i can help you if you take with you this prayer(a prayer in a language that i thougt was arabic but later found out was not a language but a lot of names of different jinns).I prayed that every day when i woke up..and slowly it helped,but then i started dreaming weird dreams,and the old problems came back..and the weird dreams started to be reality.It became worse and worse untill i didnt start to pray regulary,it was hard at the beggining but at the end it all dissapeard and since then i havent had the problems.When the imam saw me after some months he said "your soul seems to be protected by the good jinns" Shocked

God tells us,there are things that are supposed to stay secret..satan tries to tell us "come close,this is not dangerous"..but it is.God knows what is good for us,and both Quran and the Bible(from what i have heard from my christian friends) tells us to stay away from the ockult.Many young people are interested in this,and the new age movenments are on the rise..this is just because they dont know their religion.Man is not made for atheism,and lack of any spirituality but if you get too "spiritual" it can get bad for your own soul

Peace be with you

Dalila

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muslima23 Ex Member	Re: The islamic view of afterlife Reply #28 - May 9^th, 2006 at 3:29pm Quote: What do you know that the average American doesn't know? Dear friend,,an average american thinks Iraq is in Australia sorry..im just joking.its like we Europens have theese kind of prejudices about them but seriously,most americans dont care
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muslima23

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Re: The islamic view of afterlife
Reply #29 - May 9^th, 2006 at 3:31pm

Quote:

I tend to disagree with you. We are all sparks of God. I don't believe that God wanted anything to be secret. If he did, then he would be a dictator and that he is not. He is a loving God and the more we know, the closer we can get to him, know him and become godly. I realize this is just a difference between your religion and my spirituality. We can agree to disagree. Wink

With Love,
Mairlyn Wink

Yes,agreeing on the disagrement is best.

If you read my posts you will se why i dont agree with you

Peace

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